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A lot of people actually. It's hard to fit a Stormraven in some lists, due to its high price in points. A Stormtalon or Stormhawk cost less but still hit pretty damn hard against the units they specialize against hitting (air units and infantry, respectively). A kitted out anti-tank stormraven costs over three hundred points; a basic Stormhawk Interceptor costs 164 points, and against air units hits almost as hard, and a Stormtalon gunship is a fairly efficient carrier of 2 ACs and 2HBs at 165 points. So you can fit a stormhawk or stormtalon in lists that could never take such an expensive unit as a stormraven, especially not a fully kitted out one.

Really, the main advantage that the Stormraven has over them is its transport capacity IMO. But if you're not using the transport capacity you should seriously consider a talon or hawk.

 Melissia wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well sure you dont have to. you can half wound it for BS4. but 2 lascnnons multi meltas and 2 missile launchers should be capable of wrecking pretty much any tank on the following turn even on a 4+

Even at 4+-- which most Marine vehicles and infantry will be against it-- you can easily put that much firepower in to it in return.

And it's barely any tougher than a predator, so if you think that a stormraven that's damaged to the point of hitting on 4+ is gonna delete a predator a turn, then why can't you delete a stormraven in a turn?

...I didnt say anything about it not being able to....

you are ignoring my point.

a storm raven is 1.5 worth of a normal non T8 vehicle if you cant kill them then your list might be the problem.

 Desubot wrote:
...I didnt say anything about it not being able to....

A lot of other people, however, are. Sorry if it felt like I was picking on you. I was more responding to a general sentiment than to your post specifically.

 Melissia wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
...I didnt say anything about it not being able to....

A lot of other people, however, are. Sorry if it felt like I was picking on you. I was more responding to a general sentiment than to your post specifically.

Yeah no problem.

iv played against at least one storm raven in the last like 3 games.

they have died. some in very funny ways. but they do pack a hell of a punch even at half.

still cheesed i threw 10 lascannons at it on 4+s and only did a total of 2 wounds :/

People take stormravens not because of their durability, or because of their shooting, they take them because they're incredibly mobile and can't be charged by most things.

There are more efficient ways to have devastating firepower. 2 venerable dreads with twin las + twin auto = 4 lascannon, 8 autocannon shots a turn at 48", hitting on 2s, and is far cheaper than a lascannon/missile raven. And if you get reroll 1s, the odds of you hitting are pretty damn good.

The problem is that those dreadnoughts are incredibly vulnerable to assault. And, if you don't have LOS, you may not be able to get it on your first turn.

With Ravens, you won't worry about assault, and you WILL be hitting your target on your first turn. It's not some magical unkillable unit, it's just a mobile flyer that you won't easily turn 1 charge.

And really, if you take away the flyer detachment, they're fine. Having to bring an HQ and a troop for every 2 fliers is fair. That cuts down raven spam dramatically. Also, auxiliary detachment shouldn't be a thing. At all.

verticalgain wrote:
If you want to take all comers, bring fliers or AA of your own. If you want to try out a fun army like your all zerker list then play against someone else with a fun army.

How does bringing your own flyers help you kill flyers? There are very few that are any better at killing flyers than other units and you can always get more guns for less points in a non-flyer.

Anything in the new SM codex help against flyers?

Well now that flyers got nerfed (if all you have on the field are flyers, you lose at the end of the turn), I think this thread is due for a close. It shouldn't be hard, if a player is spamming flyers, to just ignore them and go after their ground units exclusively, thus forcing them off the board in one or two turns.

 Melissia wrote:
Well now that flyers got nerfed (if all you have on the field are flyers, you lose at the end of the turn), I think this thread is due for a close. It shouldn't be hard, if a player is spamming flyers, to just ignore them and go after their ground units exclusively, thus forcing them off the board in one or two turns.

Unless their ground units are 150 conscripts+ commissars, and maybe rowboat as well

Sure, you can take one less flyer and a bunch of Conscripts. This sounds to me like a much less effective list.

First, this means that you have one less flyer to alpha strike with on turn 1. Conscripts don't actually play nice with Stormravens. Stormravens want to be within 12", or at least 24", and they want to be there fast. Now you're much less threatening to a shooty army.

Second, with a Commissar and a Commander, this is at least 3 more drops than you had before, so you're less likely to go first.

I mean, you don't have to table their ground forces to beat flyer spam now. You can still win the normal way. And if they're taking 400 points in tax that doesn't contribute to the battle in the first turn or two, that's going to be very possible.

zerosignal wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Well now that flyers got nerfed (if all you have on the field are flyers, you lose at the end of the turn), I think this thread is due for a close. It shouldn't be hard, if a player is spamming flyers, to just ignore them and go after their ground units exclusively, thus forcing them off the board in one or two turns.

Unless their ground units are 150 conscripts+ commissars, and maybe rowboat as well

Which means they have ~900 points worth on non flyer models, which means you get 3-4 storm ravens depending on loadout. Not a weak list, but significantly less powerful when you have 10-11 drops, and 2-4 less ravens.

Breng77 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Well now that flyers got nerfed (if all you have on the field are flyers, you lose at the end of the turn), I think this thread is due for a close. It shouldn't be hard, if a player is spamming flyers, to just ignore them and go after their ground units exclusively, thus forcing them off the board in one or two turns.

Unless their ground units are 150 conscripts+ commissars, and maybe rowboat as well

Which means they have ~900 points worth on non flyer models, which means you get 3-4 storm ravens depending on loadout. Not a weak list, but significantly less powerful when you have 10-11 drops, and 2-4 less ravens.

Yeah. 150 conscripts + support is 9 drops unless you're not going hide your commissars and commanders in order to cover multiple conscript squads with less HQs.

Better pray your opponent doesn't have assassins.