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Vaktathi wrote: The fact I missed that just goes to show how wonky keywords can be.
Yes, he should have caught that, and the mistake is on him, but, again, I can see where it would be innocently made, and nobody else appeared to catch it either
Nobody else wrote his list. He did. Presumably he has the Codex, presumably he knows how the army works, presumably presumably presumably...
It stinks to high heavens that he has a Primaris Psyker sitting in there if I'm going to be honest. It suggests to me that he wanted a cheap HQ to fill it out and bring the Relic.
Polonius wrote: Keep in mind, this guy played a number of games against other player, presumably all competent tournament players, and nobody else caught it.
You can hold people to a strict standard, but you can't presume that every error is malicious or intentional. Some people just rely on battlescribe, others just don't notice stuff. It happens.
I think we can say the victory has some context, but I don't think we have any reason to castigate the guy.
I do. It shows one of the biggest reasons why I am so vehemently against having tournament players involved at all in development.
When would lists have been due for this tournament? How long would he have been practicing/mathhammering this stuff out?
And he couldn't ever figure out that a lynchpin HQ he chose to field (because I guarantee that's why he put the Primaris in the Cadian Detachment, to have a "cheap" HQ that wouldn't be wasted if it had Orders or things like that and so he could put a Relic of Lost Cadia on it) couldn't actually do what he wanted?
FFS, all he had to do was add a single Master of Ordnance as an Elite and he could have taken the Relic of Lost Cadia since it had <Regiment>.
A master of ordnance is nowhere near as powerful as the Relic of Lost Cadia. It's re-rolls 1s to hit.
The relic is re-rolls 1s to hit and wound, and against Chaos (the most common tournament army right now iirc), it's re-roll EVERYTHING. That's huge.
Did you actually read what I wrote?
A Master of Ordnance is an Astra Militarum Character with <Regiment>. As such, he could take the Relic of Lost Cadia.
But a Master of Ordnance is an extra 30 points... are you suggesting he could have just found 30 points somewhere in his list?
It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
But a Master of Ordnance is an extra 30 points... are you suggesting he could have just found 30 points somewhere in his list?
I can find 45 points by removing the Grenade Launchers from the 3 Veteran Squads he had.
What was the point of those anyways? 24" range Frag Grenades/Krak Grenades? For 45 points thrown across the board? At that point, you might as well just keep the damn Lasguns on them since they're Vostroyans and benefit from the extra 6" range. Grenade Launchers are Assault so wouldn't ever benefit, same as Melta or Flamers.
Vaktathi wrote: The fact I missed that just goes to show how wonky keywords can be.
Yes, he should have caught that, and the mistake is on him, but, again, I can see where it would be innocently made, and nobody else appeared to catch it either
Nobody else wrote his list. He did. Presumably he has the Codex, presumably he knows how the army works, presumably presumably presumably...
It stinks to high heavens that he has a Primaris Psyker sitting in there if I'm going to be honest. It suggests to me that he wanted a cheap HQ to fill it out and bring the Relic.
Couldnt he have just taken a Company Commander for 10 fewer points and avoided any keyword issues? Thats why Im not terribly incensed by it, there was an easy legal equivalent workaround, the keyword stuff isnt always crystal clear, and lots of other people missed it too.
Not the end of the world. It's a game, something people do for fun, not a job, nothing big was on the line. Call it out, make the issue known, increase awareness, put an asterisk up there, and move on.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
But a Master of Ordnance is an extra 30 points... are you suggesting he could have just found 30 points somewhere in his list?
I can find 45 points by removing the Grenade Launchers from the 3 Veteran Squads he had.
What was the point of those anyways? 24" range Frag Grenades/Krak Grenades? For 45 points thrown across the board? At that point, you might as well just keep the damn Lasguns on them since they're Vostroyans and benefit from the extra 6" range. Grenade Launchers are Assault so wouldn't ever benefit, same as Melta or Flamers.
. Malicious intent to cheat
. Brings grenade launchers
Pick one, dude
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Dropping the psyker though might have been a problem; the IG psychic powers are very good and he may have had it in there for some reason; even one deny roll per turn can be clutch against certain armies.
I think the army is better with a psyker than without - but dropping the GLs for another <Regiment> Character to handle the relic would've worked.
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do? 10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
Also, "hundred cavalry"...no. We're talking 3x squads of 5 from the FA slots and 5 more from the Commander himself and Command Squad(4 models). All told, 20 Death Riders.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/13 18:46:39
But a Master of Ordnance is an extra 30 points... are you suggesting he could have just found 30 points somewhere in his list?
I can find 45 points by removing the Grenade Launchers from the 3 Veteran Squads he had.
What was the point of those anyways? 24" range Frag Grenades/Krak Grenades? For 45 points thrown across the board? At that point, you might as well just keep the damn Lasguns on them since they're Vostroyans and benefit from the extra 6" range. Grenade Launchers are Assault so wouldn't ever benefit, same as Melta or Flamers.
. Malicious intent to cheat
. Brings grenade launchers
Pick one, dude
I wasn't there so I can't say whether or not he actually played them right. He might very well have been trying to play the Grenade Launchers as having the Vostroyan perk too.
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do?
10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
I know they are better than normal rough riders. Totally not needed in his list at all. He did it for fun. That detachment is about 350 points. could easily have been more mortars/manticores/or whatever he wanted to do with the points.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do?
10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
Also, "hundred cavalry"...no. We're talking 3x squads of 5 from the FA slots and 5 more from the Commander himself and Command Squad(4 models).
All told, 20 Death Riders.
No I'm saying that this guy has 100 rough riders and he never shuts up about them on the FTN podcast. I bet you he was quoting brave heart in every game he was playing. "Haha - you are outmatched. You have no heavy horse!" This guy is no cheater.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
What a weird list. Bummer(?) on his win; I know I'd feel like a tool basically forever as a result.
I'm probably alone in thinking the whole multiple armies WITH doctrines/regments per list is a bit...min/max-y, anyways. I suspect as I play more it would all come clear to me, or maybe I'm just rooted in the older ways of doing things because I haven't played in so long. <REGIMENT> is a cool idea but I dislike how there's no disadvantage to them.
I also think it's weird they're having tournaments when not all the armies are fully released. But, I've never been a big tournament follower - if I was into them, that probably wouldn't seem so strange.
FWIW I read the Salamander data slate like 3 times and didn't pick up on it being <REGIMENT> until just yesterday. I'm also stone simple, so there's that
Anyways, FRFSRF seems fine enough and only really boosts a few squads at a time. Makes them fearsome but remember - they're guardsmen. Guardsmen go squish. If your opponent has a lot of troops and officers spread out in a way to cover a long line of FRFSRF, maybe you should rethink how you approach them.
M.
EDIT:
Xenomancers wrote:No I'm saying that this guy has 100 rough riders and he never shuts up about them on the FTN podcast. I bet you he was quoting brave heart in every game he was playing. "Haha - you are outmatched. You have no heavy horse!" This guy is no cheater.
Sounds like my kinda guy!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 18:52:21
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do?
10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
I know they are better than normal rough riders. Totally not needed in his list at all. He did it for fun. That detachment is about 350 points. could easily have been more mortars/manticores/or whatever he wanted to do with the points.
On the contrary, it's actually a really good thing for him to have had.
It lets him have a mobile screen of things to fight in close or tie up some enemy shooting units on his terms. Add to it that it's 42 Wounds that ignore models slain in Shooting when taking Morale tests and that can ignore wounds suffer on 5+'s against S4 or lower shooting or that the Death Rider Commander can issue the "Duty Unto Death!" Order which lets any slain Cavalry model killed during the Fight phase immediately make a single attack.
The fact that the Leman Russ Tank costs more than the Manticore is something I find absurd. The Manticore is 20 points less, has +2 STR, meaning it can far more reliably damage real vehicles, and has Indirect Fire.
Hell, compare with the Predator Tank:
[Leman Russ has 2x Multimeltas, Battle Cannon, and Lascannon; Predator has 4x Lascannon]
With the buff, the Leman Russ breaks even with the Predator Tank in damage output and exceeds against light tanks. However, the Predator has longer range, since Multimeltas on a Leman Russ only reach 24", which is pretty damn bad, and a good reason enough I think to not run MM sponsons at all. The Leman Russ has the advantage of 1 point of T, which to it's credit, is worth something against all the plasmaguns.
Command Tanks cost 45 points more than the offered Leman Russ, which is already 15 points more than the Predator, really just for the +1 BS. Tank Orders might as well not be a thing, since it requires you to take both a Command Tank and an ordinary tank in a pair, when you could be bringing Catachan Manticores and babysitting it with Gunner Sergeant Harker. Or, for the Predator comparison, a Captain and Lieutenant, who would together still be less and be a far better buff provider, considering they give to-hits and to-wound re-rolls and are untargetable and can buff more Predators than a TC can buff Russes.
I cannot honestly call any Leman Russ, save perhaps the Punisher, "Top Tier". They're now "Solidly Average" up from "Irredeemably Bad". Tank Commanders though, really only offer the novelty of being a Tank in a HQ slot for "fluff" purposes, since they're actually more vulnerable than a much cheaper and more efficient Company Commander.
However, compared to Divine Guidance, First Rank, FIRE! Second Rank, FIRE! only works on basic weapons instead of all weapons, but is performed after moving and can be bought at a rate of 2 for 30 instead of a 50% chance of one for 40.
Notably, it turns Lasguns into (IG) Boltguns.
Its hands down better than the other orders. That's okay though?
Uhh, yes? Because, really, are you ever, ever, ever going to plan to use Fix Bayonets!? I mean, honestly, I don't see how it's actually possible for the orders to all be equal, since any order that affects shooting is inherently always going to be better than one that affects melee. It's also balanced by the fact that it only works on Lasguns, and the shooting-enhancing orders for Heavy/Special weapons are much less powerful.
And really, an IG guy with a Boltgun isn't a problem remotely, unless you're paying 30 points to buff 100 of them.
There are plenty of things that are legitimate targets of complaint: Psykers, Stormtroopers, Shadowswords, Manticores, a selection of random Forgeworld things, etc. but I find it incredibly hard to believe that Leman Russ Tanks or IG Infantry Squads under FRF-SRF are a problem in any fashion.
Manticore has always been problem #1 on the block. It makes even OP things seem tame.
I don't think so. I mean, Scions are still super cheap with Deep Strike, and for some reason they decided Shadowswords and other Baneblades needed a 40 point cost reduction.
Manticores are strong, but not back-breaking. Leman Russes are fairly average. My Shadowsword is a thing that I can put on the table and declare victory for having brought.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Unit1126PLL wrote: I actually think the Death Riders were fairly important, as they were his only real maneuver element.
If he dropped them, he'd need something else to go get objectives with.
I'd like to see some battle reports though as my comment is moot if every single opponent was tabled.
Yeah I'd like to see them too. He likely did table some players with the horse doing nothing. Some players might have actually tried to play points and hide a few units (this is where the horse would have been useful). I'm sure they gave good counter charge as well.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
This result makes me wonder what happened. Years ago, people were completely upset that armies weren't fluffy or that tournament players always used lists that totally didn't look fun or interesting.
But here we have an entire AM Infantry Brigade (the most common military force in the galaxy by a longshot), supported by an Artillery company from another Regiment (probably the second most common military force in the galaxy) and a Krieg Death Rider squadron (certainly uncommon in the galaxy but by no means unfluffy!) winning a tournament.
I'm secretly happy, because finally it wasn't an unfluffy, weird looking list that is just junk thrown together but it actually looks like a plausible force that could exist in the lore of the game.
But it was a Guard list and it won, so it was totally unfluffy and OP! The Guard only exist to catch bullets for special characters and Astartes, remember? What background are you reading?
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do?
10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
Also, "hundred cavalry"...no. We're talking 3x squads of 5 from the FA slots and 5 more from the Commander himself and Command Squad(4 models).
All told, 20 Death Riders.
No I'm saying that this guy has 100 rough riders and he never shuts up about them on the FTN podcast. I bet you he was quoting brave heart in every game he was playing. "Haha - you are outmatched. You have no heavy horse!" This guy is no cheater.
Wait, so this guy is a regular on a podcast?
Yeah...nope, no sympathy or support for an "oopsies". He might not be a cheater, but he deserves the win stripped from him.
I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result:
Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly.
The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3
The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result?
2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Xenomancers wrote: It would be very easy to make his list legal. So easy in fact that we can safely say - his win is unblemished. I mean...he did even throw some not so great elements into his list because it is what he loves to do. I'm telling you - this guy loves Calvary. He has something like 100 Calvary.
Have you seen what Death Riders do?
10" move with a D6 each time a model suffers a wound from S4 or less. On a 5+, they ignore the injury and the wound isn't lost. Add in their Warstrider(model doesn't suffer penalty to their moves when charging into terrain features) special rule and they're way scarier than normal Rough Riders.
Also, "hundred cavalry"...no. We're talking 3x squads of 5 from the FA slots and 5 more from the Commander himself and Command Squad(4 models).
All told, 20 Death Riders.
No I'm saying that this guy has 100 rough riders and he never shuts up about them on the FTN podcast. I bet you he was quoting brave heart in every game he was playing. "Haha - you are outmatched. You have no heavy horse!" This guy is no cheater.
Wait, so this guy is a regular on a podcast?
Yeah...nope, no sympathy or support for an "oopsies". He might not be a cheater, but he deserves the win stripped from him.
On the other hand - this minuet detail which could have been fixed by dropping some gernade launchers from vets which rarely fired I am sure. We can still go on pretending that gaurd needs soup to win big events. Which is kinda the opposite - soup needs gaurd to win big event. Gaurd are fully capable of winning big events on their own.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Waaaghpower wrote: I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result: Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly. The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result? 2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Or, it proves that 10 Lasguns take up 2 Troop slots (since a normal infantry squad has only 9, so I assume you are bringing one Understrength Unit) and an HQ or Elite slot, costs 74 points, one use out of a limited number of uses of the Army Special Rule.
It also conveniently forgets the utility of Boltguns vs the T7 3+ vehicles in the game vs Lasguns:
The boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/3 x 1/3: 1.5 wounds The lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3: 1.1 wounds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 19:26:44
Waaaghpower wrote: I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result:
Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly.
The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3
The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result?
2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Haha - now do it vs t3 and t5. Where the lasgun shines
Waaaghpower wrote: I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result:
Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly.
The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3
The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result?
2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Or, it proves that 10 Lasguns take up 2 Troop slots (since a normal infantry squad has only 9, so I assume you are bringing one Understrength Unit) and an HQ or Elite slot, costs 74 points, one use out of a limited number of uses of the Army Special Rule.
It also conveniently forgets the utility of Boltguns vs the T7 3+ vehicles in the game vs Lasguns:
The boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/3 x 1/3: 1.5 wounds
The lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3: 1.1 wounds.
Can you give a sargent a bolter?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 19:27:45
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Waaaghpower wrote: I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result: Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly. The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result? 2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Haha - now do it vs t3 and t5. Where the lasgun shines
Waaaghpower wrote: I just want to share some math I did, because I was amused by the result: Ten Boltguns fired by Marines is EXACTLY the same as ten Lasguns fired by Guardsmen with FRFSRF. Not close, not approximately the same, when fired at a T4 3+ armor opponent. Exactly. The Boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 The Lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3
Result? 2.222222222222 (Ad Infinitum) wounds.
Oh, and this either proves that Lasguns with FRFSRF are too powerful, or Boltguns are way too weak. But whatever.
Or, it proves that 10 Lasguns take up 2 Troop slots (since a normal infantry squad has only 9, so I assume you are bringing one Understrength Unit) and an HQ or Elite slot, costs 74 points, one use out of a limited number of uses of the Army Special Rule.
It also conveniently forgets the utility of Boltguns vs the T7 3+ vehicles in the game vs Lasguns:
The boltguns use the following equation: 20 x 2/3 x 1/3 x 1/3: 1.5 wounds The lasguns use the following equation: 40 x 1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3: 1.1 wounds.
Can you give a sargent a bolter?
You can, but the bolter doesn't benefit from FRFSRF (and the squad also costs 41 points).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 19:28:47
It's worth the 1 point. considering that bolter is worth a frfsrf lasgun against meq.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Also - don't forget the fact that bolter marines cost 13 points to your 4. So you are really getting something close to 6 shots per bolter shot of comparable point values.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
