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You know, why is that? I mean, that was the case with FW stuff back in 3e/4e - overpriced, underpowered, or (usually) both.

It's the same company, so not like there's some kind of real business reason to shoot FW in the foot like that. Not to mention their kits look *boss* so more of them on more tables is to be considered a good thing.

M.

 Infantryman wrote:
You know, why is that? I mean, that was the case with FW stuff back in 3e/4e - overpriced, underpowered, or (usually) both.

It's the same company, so not like there's some kind of real business reason to shoot FW in the foot like that. Not to mention their kits look *boss* so more of them on more tables is to be considered a good thing.

M.

Well, maybe if FW is known to be universally not as good, maybe they can make it more mainstream? I mean if you can mathematically prove that literally every single Forgeworld model in the FW catalog is inferior to a base 40k equivalent I guess you could finally put the "FW is OP" argument to bed once and for all. I mean it's not like GW would try to intentionally kill a branch of their own company...

It's also a pretty commonly heard thing that some GW stores specifically forbid FW because it's not sold in the store. This means that if someone walked in and said "that's a cool model, I want one of those" he has to say "well, you actually have to order that online, we don't carry that here." That's about the only reason I could think of to kill FW intentionally, but that would be financial suicide when FW is a license to print money right now with Horus Heresy, provided there's not some sort of financial trouble in the background I'm not aware of.

That being said not every single unit for FW was nerfed. I noticed the Leman Annihilator got about a 10pt discount, if my battlescribe files before the leak were correct. It's only about 170pts now whereas it used to be a flat 180, if you had both versions outfitted with a heavy bolter.

I remember back in 5th there was a rumor going around for a long time that GW was going to put a FW distributor or manufacturer in Memphis that never materialized. The theory was that it was a plan to make FW more mainstream so that they could actually build up enough stock to sell things in stores like regular GW kits. Since that's one of the main complaints about FW, I wonder if that had happened if people would still be as adamantly against FW as they are today.

They don't neccessarily want to kill fw but 100 pounds on fw models gives less profit than 100 pounds on gw models so guess which they want to sell more...

 Infantryman wrote:
You know, why is that? I mean, that was the case with FW stuff back in 3e/4e - overpriced, underpowered, or (usually) both.

It's the same company, so not like there's some kind of real business reason to shoot FW in the foot like that. Not to mention their kits look *boss* so more of them on more tables is to be considered a good thing.

M.

I know that GW and FW are technically the same company, but for all intents and purposes they are completely different entities that does not even share the same planet. You know that Forgeworld models are completely banned at many official GW stores?

 Infantryman wrote:
You know, why is that? I mean, that was the case with FW stuff back in 3e/4e - overpriced, underpowered, or (usually) both.

It's the same company, so not like there's some kind of real business reason to shoot FW in the foot like that. Not to mention their kits look *boss* so more of them on more tables is to be considered a good thing.

M.

It'll be the FW team making the adjustment. Nerfing the hell out of stuff they accidentally made good is business as usual for them.

pismakron wrote:
You know that Forgeworld models are completely banned at many official GW stores?

That doesn't mean much. GW's own stores have all kinds of stupid rules for in-store gaming, and those rules are set by the local employee, not by GW policy. In terms of how "official" a rule is a local employee's opinion is no more valid a statement from GW than your opinion or mine.

pismakron wrote:

 Infantryman wrote:
You know, why is that? I mean, that was the case with FW stuff back in 3e/4e - overpriced, underpowered, or (usually) both.

It's the same company, so not like there's some kind of real business reason to shoot FW in the foot like that. Not to mention their kits look *boss* so more of them on more tables is to be considered a good thing.

M.

I know that GW and FW are technically the same company, but for all intents and purposes they are completely different entities that does not even share the same planet.

Aside from sharing the same offices...yes there's disconnect, but that's not generally FW's fault.

You know that Forgeworld models are completely banned at many official GW stores?

This is because individual store managers make that decision because Forgeworld sales do not contribute to their sales quotas, it has nothing to do with any game rules or officialdom.

If I was a newbie TO I would be wary of forgeworld.
Yes it is all about players having a good time. Yes you can be curbstomped by RG and Razorbacks and that isn't great.

But there is something bitter (the pay to win element perhaps) if your opponent pulls out a £150 model they have never seen before and proceeds to wipe the floor with them. Much of Forgeworld is bad. Even more that isnt optimal. There are a few things however which are just not balanced. Its very easy to get skewed games with the big expensive stuff.

At a big established Grand Tournament thats fine. Its not the same for a small store tourney.

Tyel wrote:
But there is something bitter (the pay to win element perhaps) if your opponent pulls out a £150 model they have never seen before and proceeds to wipe the floor with them.

Well then, I think we're also going to have a long ban list of codex units. Why should I have to tolerate my opponent bringing a Tyranid army that I've never seen and crushing me with it? Ban everything that isn't my own army so that I never have to be surprised by anything. And ban everything except $100 salvage armies from ebay, because anyone spending more than the absolute minimum should not gain any benefit from it.

 Peregrine wrote:

pismakron wrote:
You know that Forgeworld models are completely banned at many official GW stores?

That doesn't mean much. GW's own stores have all kinds of stupid rules for in-store gaming, and those rules are set by the local employee, not by GW policy. In terms of how "official" a rule is a local employee's opinion is no more valid a statement from GW than your opinion or mine.

It means that GW treats Forge World units as second class units that it is reasonable to exclude from the game. Which kind of goes a long with FWs second class rulebooks.

Why would people consider FW as officially part of the game, when GW does not do so consistently?

pismakron wrote:
It means that GW treats Forge World units as second class units that it is reasonable to exclude from the game. Which kind of goes a long with FWs second class rulebooks.

Why would people consider FW as officially part of the game, when GW does not do so consistently?

It means no such thing. Again, GW store employees have zero power to speak on behalf of GW or determine GW policy. Running a cash register in a GW store does not make an employee's position on FW units any more "official" than yours or mine. The fact that a GW retail employee does or does not allow certain units is irrelevant, that policy was set by the individual employee, not by GW.

Forgeworld points have been adjusted in Chapter Approved - how much more official do people want that FW units are part of normal games.

The reason that some GW store owners dislike it is that they can not sell it - so they have no incentive to promote or use it - in fact the opposite.

There is no good reason not to allow it, the straw man ones that are raised are pathetic.

Another book - so like the Index, Codex and CA we currently need for just one faction nevermind multiples

Big units - like Wraith Kiights, Imperial Knights, Baneblades and Stompas that GW sell and are part of Codexes?

Cost - nothing in this hobby is cheap. There will always be things that not everyone can afford or wants to buy.

 Peregrine wrote:

pismakron wrote:
It means that GW treats Forge World units as second class units that it is reasonable to exclude from the game. Which kind of goes a long with FWs second class rulebooks.

Why would people consider FW as officially part of the game, when GW does not do so consistently?

It means no such thing. Again, GW store employees have zero power to speak on behalf of GW or determine GW policy. Running a cash register in a GW store does not make an employee's position on FW units any more "official" than yours or mine. The fact that a GW retail employee does or does not allow certain units is irrelevant, that policy was set by the individual employee, not by GW.

I just disagree with that. I think the actions of GW employees says more about GW policy than the opinion of random people on the internet. And as long as GW acts as if FW are at best semi-officially part of the game, then I think the widespread disdain for Forgeworld units will continue.

And it is not inherently so. All Ork flyers were originally FW units, that has now been included in the game proper, with codex entries and shelf space in GW stores. And these things matter. I have never met anybody that disapproved of Ork flyers, not TOs nor players.

pismakron wrote:
I think the actions of GW employees says more about GW policy than the opinion of random people on the internet.

And you are wrong. The employees in question have zero authority to speak on behalf of GW, on any subject. Any FW bans they have are their own invention, not something GW has endorsed or requested. Just like any time you ask a GW store employee a rules question the answer you get is no more official than asking your friend. Just like anything they tell you about upcoming releases is nothing more than the rumors they read on various third-party sites.

And as long as GW acts as if FW are at best semi-officially part of the game, then I think the widespread disdain for Forgeworld units will continue.

GW does not act this way. Certain players act this way. There is a huge difference between the two.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
FWIW the Chapter Approved points leaks show in many cases massive price hikes to forgeworld things. So maybe GW thinks FW doesn't belong in normal games after all

By this logic, maybe they don't want Assault Cannon Razorbacks in the game either...

Razorbacks with twin assault cannons are regular GW units included in the SM codex. The model is FW, but the rules are GW. It can be converted/kit bashed quite easily, I've done my 3 razorbacks with assault cannons taken from the dreads bitz. If you ask some spared bitz from imperium players or find good deals on sites that sell bitz (like I did) you may have your twin assault cannons without buying from FW and usually saving money.

Checking out the CA points changes, everything I use either got cheaper or unchanged.... meanwhile a bunch of stuff in chaos (that's the only FW book I have) got 100+ points increase. I wonder how the TO will deal with it.

On the topic of GW's stance on FW, I am connected with the guy running the London GT and his attempts at banning or even changing up FW units was so vehemently opposed by GW that they threatened to withdraw their support for and endorsement of the GT.

That says far more about whether or not FW is part of the game than some store manager's opinon.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the topic of GW's stance on FW, I am connected with the guy running the London GT and his attempts at banning or even changing up FW units was so vehemently opposed by GW that they threatened to withdraw their support for and endorsement of the GT.

That says far more about whether or not FW is part of the game than some store manager's opinon.

Wow, I didn't know that. Perhaps I should get ahold of GW......

 chimeara wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the topic of GW's stance on FW, I am connected with the guy running the London GT and his attempts at banning or even changing up FW units was so vehemently opposed by GW that they threatened to withdraw their support for and endorsement of the GT.

That says far more about whether or not FW is part of the game than some store manager's opinon.

Wow, I didn't know that. Perhaps I should get ahold of GW......

Does your store have a FW or GW booth showing up? Is your store being advertised on the FB page? I think that is what they meant by "endorsement"

pismakron wrote:

I know that GW and FW are technically the same company, but for all intents and purposes they are completely different entities that does not even share the same planet.

Yeah, nah.

pismakron wrote:

You know that Forgeworld models are completely banned at many official GW stores?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 chimeara wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the topic of GW's stance on FW, I am connected with the guy running the London GT and his attempts at banning or even changing up FW units was so vehemently opposed by GW that they threatened to withdraw their support for and endorsement of the GT.

That says far more about whether or not FW is part of the game than some store manager's opinon.

Wow, I didn't know that. Perhaps I should get ahold of GW......

Does your store have a FW or GW booth showing up? Is your store being advertised on the FB page? I think that is what they meant by "endorsement"

I'll look into that. The store has it's own website and they advertise it on there plus the tournament has it's own site. Not sure how much is on FB, the event isn't until Feb.