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Id rather them just try to play Han or Lando, and not play Harrison Ford playing Han.

If we're gonna have them be those characters they should be them, with some influence from the originals, not just emulating the originals.

That second trailer looks pretty awesome. I'm still not feeling either Han or Lando, but if I can ignore who they are supposed to be it should be fun.

My wife is even exited to go see it after this new trailer. Her thought was "Why is it that these secondary films are better than the new trilogy at being Star Wars?"

The trailer looks good. But then, so did the trailers for TLJ. I really have little hope for DisneyWars anymore.

If - IF - any of my friends see this and give it a walk-on-water review I might go see it. Might. I'm that gun-shy at this point.

This looks to be much better than TLJ was. More like Rogue One in terms of quality, and it was far better than the sequels so far. I'm already excited for this movie!

Spoiler relating to toy releases.

What's with spelling "small" as "smol"? Britishism?

I expect that this movie will end with Han, Chewie, and the Falcon being ready for their scenes in ANH. That's part of the engineering of these investments magic of these movies.

I like the idea of a Millenium Falcon toy with digital components that give it motion activated sounds and sound activated movements.

 Manchu wrote:
What's with spelling "small" as "smol"? Britishism?

I expect that this movie will end with Han, Chewie, and the Falcon being ready for their scenes in ANH. That's part of the engineering of these investments magic of these movies.

I hope not, because in ANH Han and Chewie seemed like they'd known each other a while. At least that was my impression that admittedly could be warped by years of supplementary media, but its what I got out of watching the movie. But here it seems more like they know each other alot less considering the comments about age and knowing how to fly.

I had the impression from ANH that the Rebellion was a coherent group ideologically committed to overthrowing tye Empire and restoring the Republic. But then Rogue One came out and we found out the leadership of the Rebellion was basically ready to give up a week or two before the destruction of the Death Star.

Fair point.

 Manchu wrote:
I had the impression from ANH that the Rebellion was a coherent group ideologically committed to overthrowing tye Empire and restoring the Republic. But then Rogue One came out and we found out the leadership of the Rebellion was basically ready to give up a week or two before the destruction of the Death Star.

I wonder how much of that is rooted in the rework? The rumor mill suggested that Jyn's character changed, and that seems likely given what we saw in the final version. Perhaps the issues and doubt within the Rebels were amped up so that Jyn could serve as the agent of hope?

Personally I think it's okay for the Rebels to be portrayed as being somewhat fractured. That just feels real. But yes, looking like they're ready to give up doesn't seem to make sense.

I thought it worked. Remember we meet the rebellion in ANH right after they've destroyed a planet full of people and disbanded the senate. Before that it might have seemed like they could work within the system and you had a bit of "well maybe we can live with this". Then Boom! Senates gone, they've actually used the super weapon, and now that super weapon is coming for you.

 gorgon wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I had the impression from ANH that the Rebellion was a coherent group ideologically committed to overthrowing tye Empire and restoring the Republic. But then Rogue One came out and we found out the leadership of the Rebellion was basically ready to give up a week or two before the destruction of the Death Star.

I wonder how much of that is rooted in the rework? The rumor mill suggested that Jyn's character changed, and that seems likely given what we saw in the final version. Perhaps the issues and doubt within the Rebels were amped up so that Jyn could serve as the agent of hope?

Personally I think it's okay for the Rebels to be portrayed as being somewhat fractured. That just feels real. But yes, looking like they're ready to give up doesn't seem to make sense.

To be fair, a giant superweapon which at the time had no known weakness had just been developed. Also, it seemed that there was no possible way to get at the plans required to find any weakness.

Seems like a reasonable time to be contemplating giving up.

Keep in mind that the battle of Scarif represents the first major victory for the Rebellion against the Empire. You can see how that would galvanise the Rebels that might have been on the verge of giving up after years of defeats, casualties and ultimately getting nowhere, who were then told about a seemingly invulnerable weapon that could destroy their entire military capacity in seconds.

After Scarif, thanks to the sacrifice of Rogue One, they have a chance against something that, hours before that battle, seemed unbeatable, something that makes those sacrifices worth it. I'd say the course of events makes such a shift in perspective pre- and post-Scarif plausible.

This isn't even anything new, the opening crawl of ANH talks about the Rebels having won their first major victory against the Empire. All R1 does is reframe that; the battle of Yavin isn't the triumphant climax of the Rebel insurgency, it's a desperate Hail Mary shot to make years of resistance count for something.

As Hulksmash pointed out, the Death Star would only harden opposition to the Empire.

IMO as soon as sophisticated politicians heard of a Death Star, they would immediately get that it's purpose is to accelerate the ongoing centralization of power/deconstruction of democracy.

The scene in R1 where the Alliance leadership is on the verge of giving up is just bizarre. To answer Gorgon, it goes without saying that the whole scene was written so Jyn Erso can give an inspiring speech. Nothing in ANH implies the Rebellion is tissue-paper-in-rain fragile, as depicted in that scene.

Paradigm, Scarif happens about 5-10 days (if not less) before Yavin. There is a strange time collapse here created by Disney's need to hook the first non-trilogy film up to the trilogy.

 gorgon wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I had the impression from ANH that the Rebellion was a coherent group ideologically committed to overthrowing tye Empire and restoring the Republic. But then Rogue One came out and we found out the leadership of the Rebellion was basically ready to give up a week or two before the destruction of the Death Star.

I wonder how much of that is rooted in the rework? The rumor mill suggested that Jyn's character changed, and that seems likely given what we saw in the final version. Perhaps the issues and doubt within the Rebels were amped up so that Jyn could serve as the agent of hope?

Personally I think it's okay for the Rebels to be portrayed as being somewhat fractured. That just feels real. But yes, looking like they're ready to give up doesn't seem to make sense.

The Lucasfilm showrunners used the buyout as an opportunity to 'redo' a lot of the ideas that existed in the EU but hadn't been committed to film yet. The idea that the Rebellion was a much messier Alliance of disperate factions which was still working out how 'hard' they were going to push is a big part of that, you can see them laying that out in Rebels, Tarkin, and Aftermath.

The proximity in time between Scarif and Yavin is exactly why it make sense; the Rebels are still on the up after the victory, there hasn't been time yet for the Empire to start carrying out reprisals (Alderaan being the first instance, at least that we know about) so at that point, everyone on Yavin believes they have a shot at winning once and for all by taking out the Death Star. The momentum is with them. Any longer between Scarif and Yavin and the doubts would creep back in.

In the space of 10 days (if we're being generous) you have the following events:

- The destruction of Jedha. Panic as rumours of a superweapon begin to circulate, and some among the Rebel leadership (quite sensibly) think that they're next on the list, their position is hopeless.

- The battle of Scarif. For once, the Rebels win. The Death Star is not invincible and despite heavy losses, the mission succeeds. The morale of the Rebellion surely skyrockets following the victory.

- The destruction of Alderaan. It becomes apparent The Empire has to be stopped NOW. Surrender, try and negotiate, and your planet is turned to dust. At this point, the only options are all coming together for one final strike, or face total annihilation.

- The battle of Yavin. What's left of the Rebellion, buoyed by the win at Scarif and enraged by the fate of Alderaan and the dissolution of the Senate, understands that this is all or nothing. Surrender is no longer an option, nor is diplomacy. Fight or die.


This makes total sense to me. The Death Star is a weapon meant to inspire terror. Of course it causes some of the less committed Rebels to question their commitment when it's first unveiled, that is its entire reason to be. Once it's used, that threat becomes reality and any decisions are already made; you can die fighting the Empire, or you can live knowing that if they ever find out you were a Rebel your planet could be next on the list.

The options of the Rebels narrow dramatically in that period, so going from division to unity is entirely logical, as by the time of Yavin it's the only choice left. And as Jyn says, the Rebellion is built on hope. While the Death Star appears invulnerable, there is no hope. Once there's a potential weakness, hope returns. It's the central theme of the film.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I had the impression from ANH that the Rebellion was a coherent group ideologically committed to overthrowing tye Empire and restoring the Republic. But then Rogue One came out and we found out the leadership of the Rebellion was basically ready to give up a week or two before the destruction of the Death Star.

I wonder how much of that is rooted in the rework? The rumor mill suggested that Jyn's character changed, and that seems likely given what we saw in the final version. Perhaps the issues and doubt within the Rebels were amped up so that Jyn could serve as the agent of hope?

Personally I think it's okay for the Rebels to be portrayed as being somewhat fractured. That just feels real. But yes, looking like they're ready to give up doesn't seem to make sense.

The Lucasfilm showrunners used the buyout as an opportunity to 'redo' a lot of the ideas that existed in the EU but hadn't been committed to film yet. The idea that the Rebellion was a much messier Alliance of disperate factions which was still working out how 'hard' they were going to push is a big part of that, you can see them laying that out in Rebels, Tarkin, and Aftermath.

Hell, you can see parts of it back with the original "Thrawn" books by Timothy Zahn. Garm bel Iblis and the whole "Corellian Treaty" things.

The very short time between Scarif and Yavin is fine. The weird thing is that the R1 Alliance is on the verge of collapse but there are no signs of the organization being fragile in ANH. The way I rationalize this, from an in-universe perspective, is that we now know the Rebellion can get sleazy when Princesses aren't handing out medals to farmboys and nerf herders. So, to me, there was a power struggle between the more conservative, diplomacy-oriented leaders and the radicalized militant leaders and the lucky bumbling on Scarif gave the latter cover to quickly outmaneuver and possibly dispose of their rivals. None of those guys appear in the OT, after all.

@Kanluwen - it was also a theme in the Force Unleashed games.

You’re also talking about survivors of the Clone Wars.

The Death Star and it’s near immediate destruction is what enabled the Rebels to actually win in the end.

As I’ve said before, the Death Star (clearly never intended to be just one of them) was what Palpatine needed to cast off the last vestiges of democracy. Because with that toy, it doesn’t matter if people object - you’ll destroy their planet. And being such a monolithic deterrent also frees up much of your regular fleet.

Rogue One beautifully enhances the Death Star conference. Think about the conversation there ‘The Rebel Alliance are a threat’ ‘yeah, to your star fleet Admiral, not to this battle station’. Tarkin clearly states ‘fear of this battle station will keep the local systems in line’, justifying The Emperor’s disbanding of the senate.

That was meant to be Palpatine’s triumph. You can see the arrogance oozing from Imperial High Command. Then some sod in an X-Wing goes and blows it up the next day.

By that point, it’s far too late. Palpatine has played his hand. He’s seized power, annihilated an unarmed planet, and revealed his true face to the Galaxy.

As Leia says - the more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers.

The destruction of the first Death Star was a clarion call. Look how far Palpatine will go. But he and his armies are categorically not invulnerable. They can be faced in open battle and defeated, one battle at a time.

At that point, the jig is well and truly up. More and more systems feel able to at least challenge Imperial supremacy, if not outright join the rebellion. This puts a strain on the Imperial Navy - and provides the Rebellion with new allies, and information.

Rogue One is frankly a superb addition to the canon.

But every point you just stated was made in ANH rather than R1.

Rogue One enhances it.

We get to see The Empire’s general bruality first hand. Roughing people up, taking whatever they want.

You don’t need to see Rogue One for A New Hope, but it sure as hell enhances it all.

My one trifling complaint with Rogue One is how it somewhat undermines the characters of Tarkin and Leia.

Tarkin comes across as a bureaucratic claim-jumper. Yes, he may have been brought in early to get it started, but then he abandoned it. Krennic took over, brought it to completion, and only then does Tarkin return, just in time to avoid all the hard work and take all the credit.

(Krennic doesn't impress much either; for some reason he puts the burden of designing the ultimate weapon on someone who's a proven security risk. Surely there can't be THAT few people capable of working out the kinks in the design...)

In some ways Leia comes across worse. Her argument that the Tantive IV was 'an ambassadorial ship on a diplomatic mission' is HEAVYILY undermined by the fact that Vader - the very person she's making the argument to - personally saw the ship blast out of Scarif with his own eyes. Heck, he came within inches of actually boarding her ship before it got away. It makes her seem.... well, like a whiney teenager caught red-handed sneaking back in really late at night trying to say she had never actually left. What seemed a plausible excuse before Rogue One now seems pretty darn weak.

Having said that, well, everything else in the movie was between good and brilliant, so I'll let those little slips go.

It's just terribly sad that instead of giving us an Episode VIII the equal of Rogue One, we got the steaming pile of.... raw sewage... that was The Last Jedi.

 Vulcan wrote:


In some ways Leia comes across worse. Her argument that the Tantive IV was 'an ambassadorial ship on a diplomatic mission' is HEAVYILY undermined by the fact that Vader - the very person she's making the argument to - personally saw the ship blast out of Scarif with his own eyes. Heck, he came within inches of actually boarding her ship before it got away. It makes her seem.... well, like a whiney teenager caught red-handed sneaking back in really late at night trying to say she had never actually left. What seemed a plausible excuse before Rogue One now seems pretty darn weak.

That's why I love watching ANH straight after Rogue One.

If you can imagine that it takes place mere hours after R1, you can just feel the anger coming from Vader when he confronts her and she pulls that "diplomatic mission" line on him. I think that it was amazingly restrained of him to not force choke her there and then.

Added bonus, his helmet looks all scuffed up as if he's just waded through a corridor of Rebels firing blasters at him.

I know it's all a bit strange because of the costume design and budget from a film made 40 years earlier, but it works for me.

Thats probably why Vader choked Antilles to death, right as he pulled the "Abassador's Ship" line. And Vader then says in a mocking tone "If this is a counselors ship, where is the ambassador!"

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:


In some ways Leia comes across worse. Her argument that the Tantive IV was 'an ambassadorial ship on a diplomatic mission' is HEAVYILY undermined by the fact that Vader - the very person she's making the argument to - personally saw the ship blast out of Scarif with his own eyes. Heck, he came within inches of actually boarding her ship before it got away. It makes her seem.... well, like a whiney teenager caught red-handed sneaking back in really late at night trying to say she had never actually left. What seemed a plausible excuse before Rogue One now seems pretty darn weak.

That's why I love watching ANH straight after Rogue One.

If you can imagine that it takes place mere hours after R1, you can just feel the anger coming from Vader when he confronts her and she pulls that "diplomatic mission" line on him. I think that it was amazingly restrained of him to not force choke her there and then.

Added bonus, his helmet looks all scuffed up as if he's just waded through a corridor of Rebels firing blasters at him.

I know it's all a bit strange because of the costume design and budget from a film made 40 years earlier, but it works for me.

Agreed. Honestly, Rogue One made that scene better for me with regards to Leia as well. Vader had already fired on the ship, boarded it, and killed a bunch of the crew. Leia's not dumb, she had to know that telling him a lie about being on a diplomatic mission isn't going to do anything to help her.

But if he literally just watched them fly away from a large-scale Rebel victory, it'd be a fun little way to tell him 'screw you, I'm not cooperating' on the way to the detention cell.

Darth Vader is probably bored and depressed most of the time. In R1, we see that he lives in a castle on the planet where he murdered his wife and got owned by his former BFF. At home, he's just a quadriplegic hanging out in his bacta bathtub while the Emperor's red-robed spies babysit him. Not much fun compared to being a prequels-era Jedi, somersaulting all over the place dismantling Confederacy droids.

Krennic, let's face it, is not great company. Nonetheless, Vader seems eager to chat and the highlight of that audience is our Dark Lord cracking a corny joke. Similarly, the shot of the Devastator arriving over Scarif, where the ship abruptly rushes up to dominate the screen, communicates Vader's hankering for fun, which is confirmed when he boards Profundity alone.

I really wonder whether Edwards was influenced by the scene in ESB where Lando serves up his erstwhile friends to Vader in one of Cloud City's formal dining rooms. Vader clearly set that up and even had a dry joke prepared: "We would be honored if you would join us." How long was he saving that one? (And was Boba Fett wincing behind his helmet?) That same dramatic flair is present when Vader finds himself in a darkened hallway with a dozen terrified Rebel troopers. You know there is a moment there when he thinks to himself, this is gonna be so badass when I ignite my lightsaber. Some people describe the ensuing massacre as Vader being enraged. But he's clearly having a grand time, slicing and dicing, even if he has less mobility than in the good old days.

That shot of Vader watching the Tantive IV escape is definitely obligatory and Edwards totally missed the opportunity to have Vader emote. By the time he catches up to the blockade runner, Vader lets his squad handle the boarding action. He must be feeling a little pouty but I think he's having fun again by the time he's murdering Captain Antilles. I mean, he hardly let's the dude answer his questions. He's just so caught up in doing villain stuff.

Sadly, most of the rest of ANH is "back to the office" type drudgery for Big V: miserable staff meetings and hovering around awkwardly. He gets to torture Leia and kill Obi-Wan though so pretty good. But that same sense of "oh boy fun time" glee is present in his hustle to the fighter bay to go out in space and shoot some scum in a barrel. Of course, if you really want to see Vader having fun - probably the most fun of his whole life - that's where ESB comes in.

Interesting points.

An New Hope is what, 19 years after Revenge of the Sitn?

Vader likely hasn’t had a proper challenge in over a decade. Like, at all. Order 66 dealt with most of the Jedi, leaving mere mopping up and rooting out.

Poor sod, when you think how dynamic he was as Anakin.

 Manchu wrote:
The very short time between Scarif and Yavin is fine. The weird thing is that the R1 Alliance is on the verge of collapse but there are no signs of the organization being fragile in ANH. The way I rationalize this, from an in-universe perspective, is that we now know the Rebellion can get sleazy when Princesses aren't handing out medals to farmboys and nerf herders. So, to me, there was a power struggle between the more conservative, diplomacy-oriented leaders and the radicalized militant leaders and the lucky bumbling on Scarif gave the latter cover to quickly outmaneuver and possibly dispose of their rivals. None of those guys appear in the OT, after all.

@Kanluwen - it was also a theme in the Force Unleashed games.

But a large proportion the really nasty, murderous and extremely dubious people in the rebellion (Saw, Andor and his black ops assassin squad) get wiped out in Rogue One. That's presumably one reason why the rebellion is so squeaky clean in general in the subsequent films.