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Some initial thought on the dynasties looking at all the bonuses together:

Sautekh

They get 4 named characters that the others can't have. Code is not too exciting, but the stratagem and WL trait are great. Any list with a decent amount of shooting will do ok out of this Dynasty, it doesn't force you to focus on specific builds.

Nihilakh

Trazyn! lol, moving on. Reroll 1s if you don't move is decent but not mind blowing. That Stratagem though! 2+ invul saves anyone? Full unit of wraith within 3" of an objective or Sheild Lychguard if you activate their other strat. Or maybe a 2+ Sv monolith dropped onto an objective. WL trait and relic are pap. So some kind of gunline army that tries to pull something clever with the stratagem seems best.

Novokh

It's all about assault here. The Code, Strat, Relic and WL trait are all about getting extra attacks or hits. Kind of straight forward and one dimensional.

Nephrekh

Their Code is so cool! Everything teleports around! not that powerful though unfortunatly. It does combo well with the strat for making canoptek units charge after advancing though. The stat is amazing! It's webway strike but as far as I can see there is no restriction on the number of uses, reserve as much as you want for 1cp per unit! WL trait is ok and the relic is nice. The wording seems odd to me, it looks like it stacks with every hit so you could put someone at -6 to hit in your fight phase.

Mephrit

Obviously the stand out Code, people have already started the number crunching on what it can do. As an extra surprise though the WL trait and relic combo they have seems nasty. That staff is a pretty powerful gun to be sniping characters with at 18". Take it on a CCB for another powerful sniping gun.

Nephrekh seems interesting with Tesla units at least. While you don't get the Tesla benefit, you can really abuse the Assault profile mechanic and kinda go where you please.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nephrekh seems interesting with Tesla units at least. While you don't get the Tesla benefit, you can really abuse the Assault profile mechanic and kinda go where you please.

Yea, with MWBD you would be firing at normal effect but moving 11 inches a turn on immortals. Alternatively you could just set them up anywhere you want for 1 CP.

I am wondering if the Vault is not close to an auto take. Superheavy auxiliary from mephrit lmao. Or maybe even Nephrek since you can move it up faster to get into optimal powers range. Hilariously you could also 1cp it in, which is easier then a normal monolith because it's only 9" restriction and the oval base makes the footprint smaller. I imagine a tomb spyder and canoptek cryptek healling 2d3 wounds a turn is gona be super irritating while this thing nickle and dimes the enemy all day. The thing just dumps out so many MW's. It really can't be ignored but at the same time is a major PITA to kill.

I don't get the Obelisk 426 points for 20 hits with S7
and if there are 6 untis with fly in 18" i makes 2 mortal wounds on one of them on avagage

3 Annihilation Barges cost 399 give me 24 hits S7 and 9 shots with S6 AP-3 d3 damage.

But on the other hand I really this from FB blog for the bloodgod:
Nanoscarab casket on your warlord makes him tough as nails! Heal D3 wounds at the start of both yours and your opponents turns. Then if he does die on a 4+ he gets back up with D6 wounds... which he continues to heal... what a baller

Yea I saw that, makes him a beast. Can only be a Dlord though.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Can someone explain to me how Flayed Ones ended up at 17 ppm?

Let's ignore the fact that they are horribly expensive (moneywise) direct GW-only models in failcast.

They are 1 wound, T4 models with a 4+ save.
They have no shooting.
They are decent at melee at best. (3 Attacks isn't amazing, and while rerolling to wound is good, lack of any AP and Damage is not.)
They're not even Troops.

They have innate deepstrike, but no other way to help them reach combat.

Explain in what world 20 of them is worth 340 pts, especially when you can get 10 Sword'n'bord Lychguard for the exact same pricetag (or 6 Wraiths for 330 pts.)

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

They also don't NEED any AP as you're trying to optimize them for a target they don't care for. Just like last edition you want them against chaff. You get maybe 2 Flayed Ones for one Lychguard (I'll do the Sword for this but can do Scythe as well) and how many for a Wraith (I don't know the new price). However, let us calculate for 3 Flayed Ones per Wraith.

I'm not sure if you actually want to do the math or just complain, but Flayed Ones kill 3.6 Guardsmen per the 1.1 of the Lychguard and 1.6 of the Wraith, 1.5 Marines for the 0.7 of the Lychguard and the 0.8 of the Wraith, 4.4 Gaunts per the same values on the Lychguard and Wraith with the Infantry, and so on.

If you wanted them to kill Custodes yeah you should be disappointed.

Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I don't get the Obelisk 426 points for 20 hits with S7
and if there are 6 untis with fly in 18" i makes 2 mortal wounds on one of them on avagage

3 Annihilation Barges cost 399 give me 24 hits S7 and 9 shots with S6 AP-3 d3 damage.

But on the other hand I really this from FB blog for the bloodgod:
Nanoscarab casket on your warlord makes him tough as nails! Heal D3 wounds at the start of both yours and your opponents turns. Then if he does die on a 4+ he gets back up with D6 wounds... which he continues to heal... what a baller

You would basically be forced to use the Strategem to turn that value on a 4+. That's gonna be good when we run into other Tomb Blades and Destroyers, Shining Spears, Fire Raptors and such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining in some way.

I really want to like Flayed Ones, but comparing them to Praetorians (320 for 10), Shieldguards (340 for 10) or Wraiths (330 for 6) just makes my shoulders lump.
(And let's not compare them to other squishy T4 melee units, like Genestealers...)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.

Fly you can get on better units that also do CC better or shoot better and better vehicles that do all the things a stalker does. I acknowledged the point cut, I said if the points got lowered to reflect their lack of attraction being non-dynastic. I mean that it need to be more before I'd consider triarch praetorians or for that matter a stalker.

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it". Similarly, I think Wraiths are a bit expensive for their statline, but you can give them RP, they can potentially run and Charge, Novokh can give them so many combat buffs it's not even funny, etc. I think 17 for a Flayed One might still be a bit on the high side, but imo it's pretty reasonable once all is taken into consideration on the table.

Just verifying for my understanding… Transcendant C'tans 'Transdimensional displacement' ability.

since it says 'when this model advances, add 12" to its move characteristic for that movement phase instead of rolling a dice.'

So if I do advance him his movement for the turn is 20" and at the end of it he can use his power/'s… Also since he doesn't have a shooting attack he doesn't lose anything for advancing and can still charge. Just gotta make sure I dont trick myself into trying to effectively go the whole 30" board divider between armies T1 if I go first. *chuckle*

I have a feeling there's a way I can use this in a way im not quite seeing yet ; but when I do I have a feeling this guy is going to become my armies hound of war they let slip turn 1 and somehow manages to get into their line and causes all sorts of confusion while the rest of my forces keep them boxed in so they're relatively trapped in a firing squad cage with him. *chuckle*

How does he charge after advancing? Stratagem?

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.

Requizen wrote:

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it".

I disagree, but let's agree to disagree.
A unit should be able to stand on it's own feet and still be viable.
I'm fine with units going insane if you stack buffs on them, that's the way it should be, since you're technically paying for whatever is bringing the buffs as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.

True, but unlike Flayed Ones, the LG are resilient on their own, and are a threat to a much wider array of targets, not just chaff and armourless units.

And no, but you're either locking yourself to a certain Dynasty or "wasting" a precious relic slot on making a sub-par unit viable. (or in the Monoliths case, bringing a near 400 point-taxi. )

 MinscS2 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it".

I disagree, but let's agree to disagree.
A unit should be able to stand on it's own feet and still be viable.
I'm fine with units going insane if you stack buffs on them, that's the way it should be, since you're technically paying for whatever is bringing the buffs as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.

True, but unlike Flayed Ones, the LG are resilient on their own, and are a threat to a much wider array of targets, not just chaff and armourless units.

And no, but you're either locking yourself to a certain Dynasty or "wasting" a precious relic slot on making a sub-par unit viable. (or in the Monoliths case, bringing a near 400 point-taxi. )

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

Your acting like their abilities are not being factored in. Praetorians are fearless and make a mockery of lychguard when your looking at cost. They move faster and shoot. Both look lack luster but that is because 2 wound elite models in every army kinda suck. I mean look at a warp talon for example. T4 1 wound, only punch stuff and they are 27ppm and objectively worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining in some way.

I really want to like Flayed Ones, but comparing them to Praetorians (320 for 10), Shieldguards (340 for 10) or Wraiths (330 for 6) just makes my shoulders lump.
(And let's not compare them to other squishy T4 melee units, like Genestealers...)

I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.

Fly you can get on better units that also do CC better or shoot better and better vehicles that do all the things a stalker does. I acknowledged the point cut, I said if the points got lowered to reflect their lack of attraction being non-dynastic. I mean that it need to be more before I'd consider triarch praetorians or for that matter a stalker.

Disagree. A praetorian is literally the equivalent of a space marine biker when you think about it, a little slower but with fly, but then it reanimates. It's crazy how cheap some of you fellas are expecting units to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it". Similarly, I think Wraiths are a bit expensive for their statline, but you can give them RP, they can potentially run and Charge, Novokh can give them so many combat buffs it's not even funny, etc. I think 17 for a Flayed One might still be a bit on the high side, but imo it's pretty reasonable once all is taken into consideration on the table.

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.

LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

 Red Corsair wrote:


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.

Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...

Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.

Has anyone noticed that there's no range requirement for the disruption shields stratagem? That's a huge buff.

Moving on from Flayed Ones.

Unless playing Sautekh/Immotekh, it seems that Necrons will be very starved for CP:
- No artifact that generates CP.
- No warlordtrait that generates CP (other than for Sautekh.)
- No cheap spammable HQs (cheapest being ~85 pts)
- No cheap spammable Troops (cheapest being 12 ppm.)

How do people plan on bringing more than 6-7 CP in a 2000 pts list? Is it even possible without hamstringing yourself?

I'm trying to work out how to fit a battalion in 1k points, because that's what my FLGS plays. And everyone else brings one.
I think its fair that we have no way to generate CP. Our stratagems are pretty powerful, and it seems they replace our unique equipment, which is what defined necrons before.
The fact that necrons warriors are still 12p is pretty dumb. They are not worth that much. Maybe 10 points.

Im wondering if anyone has some ideas about how best to equip a command barge. Ive been thinking about how to put some of the artifacts to use in order to improve my command barge. I think that the barge is probably one of the better characters for taking the voidreaper artifact on, as it is able to move quickly and engage high value targets. I'm also kind of wondering if it would be worth it to spend a command point for the lightning field for the 4++. There are four warlord traits that I'm torn between. The Enduring Will trait would synergize with quantum shielding by reducing successful 2 damage wounds to one damage wounds. Honorable Combatant would add D3 attacks with the voidreaper against characters, which would turn the barge even deadlier. The Skin of Living Gold would give the barge a -1 to hit, which would improve its survivability a lot. Finally, if the barge has the lightning field, then the Thrall of the Silent King trait also becomes appealing for the 4 inch mortal wound bubble and the 15 inch wave of command. Does anyone have an idea for how to make this barge as deadly as possible?

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.

LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

 Red Corsair wrote:


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.

Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...

Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.

1. Except when you have low AP but multiple damage from weapons like Autocannons and, look at that, Wraiths. It only goes so far.
2. I also said MEQ in general. I know Tactical Marines are trash, but look at Intercessors and stuff for example. The Wraith and Flayed Ones are actually killing them at the same rate nearly (Just double the wounds I showed earlier).
3. Except the Flayed Ones don't NEED that much support. Wraiths need the least support, that's already known.

Game_maker wrote:
Im wondering if anyone has some ideas about how best to equip a command barge.

Nightmare Shroud is pretty good as it will give the Barge a 2+, and the Barges large footprint means a massive area for the -1 Ld aura.

Lightning Field is pretty good as it gives the Barge a 4++, and again the large footprint means more potential mortal wounds.

Timesplinter Cloak is pretty good if running Nihilakh. More wounds -> better mileage out of a 5+++.

As for Warlord Traits, there are so many good ones that it boils down to personal taste and playstyle.

Someone mentioned the Mephrit WT alongside the Meprith relic for a ranged character hunter.

Personally I'd run with Implaceable Conqueror (because I'd play Novokh) and Lightning Field since I'd try to get into combat asap, where I'd utilize both the 4++ and the mortal wound-effect.
With the Gauss Cannon and Warscythe we're looking at 169 pts, not too expensive, and pretty tanky with the 3+/4++. Might add a Res Orb as well, again due to the larger footprint granted by the Barge.

Anyone happen to notice that some of our vehicles no longer degrade? Like the A-Barge no longer has a block it.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Anyone happen to notice that some of our vehicles no longer degrade? Like the A-Barge no longer has a block it.

The A barge never had a block on it. Vehicles with less than 10 wounds never degrade.

The annihilation barge doesn't degrade in the index, either; as a general rule it's only vehicles with 10+ wounds that have a degrading profile.

So, I am not playing Necrons (yet), but considering them as my next army. I have tried reading up on general list concepts etc. and checked the new codex leaks, one question though:

Have Warriors fallen out of favour? Everybody seems to be talking Immortals regarding the Troop slot since the leaks dropped... what am I missing? Mephrit Warriors are looking really good right now.

Immortals are only 5 points more for a MUCH better gun and a better save.

Doesn’t the “ignore heavy weapon penalty” dynastic trait assist Doom Scythes quite a bit?