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2018/04/25 14:55:23
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
2018/04/25 15:53:40
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
2018/04/25 16:14:25
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
2018/04/25 17:50:54
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
Yes, because every army that relies on smite or charging is at the bottom of the barrel, except they're not. BA had a good niche in the top tier until the beta rule. Thousand Sons are actually BETTER damage dealers with the new beta rule, e.t.c. e.t.c. There's no reason GK can't be brought up to that level at least except that no one at GW understands the faction that well. Even our characters are stuck with 1 damage smite!
There's been a significant amount of time to implement any desired changes for GK. There aren't any desired changes for GK.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/25 18:18:52
2018/04/25 17:53:23
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
Also - it doesn't actually take significant amounts of time to write a rule and put it on the internet.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/04/26 04:17:04
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
I actually just go into 40k last month, it's actually nice knowing that they update rules on the fly, lots of games do that. If you have a good teacher/store you can learn pretty quickly. Who uses a rulebook anyways? Every game I have played, regardless it being a 2000 point game and or a teaching game,, not one person had a rulebook in sight. I don't know if this is common, but as a noob I could care less how many documents I have to have as long as they don't ignore the broken stuff.
Currently playing:
2018/04/26 04:22:19
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
Yes, because every army that relies on smite or charging is at the bottom of the barrel, except they're not. BA had a good niche in the top tier until the beta rule. Thousand Sons are actually BETTER damage dealers with the new beta rule, e.t.c. e.t.c. There's no reason GK can't be brought up to that level at least except that no one at GW understands the faction that well. Even our characters are stuck with 1 damage smite!
There's been a significant amount of time to implement any desired changes for GK. There aren't any desired changes for GK.
------------------------------------------------
fething mobile and quote formating or whatever it is.
There are other armies besides Grey Knights. Several don't even have a codex yet. GW will get to GK in time but they have other priorities. 8th isn't even a year old yet and you're being impatient and demanding fixes NOW which is pretty unreasonable (please don't respond with a car or food comparison). People seem to forget that OTHER PEOPLE play this game and it's not just all about you and your army. Likewise, the rules team isn't a large team and probably no more than like 5 or 6 guys so there's only so much they can dedicate their time to to meet deadlines.
I'm beginning to think that people forget that the GW rules team are just a bunch of nerds in an office. They're treated like they should be superhumans and able to know and fix all the problems with all the games all at the same time. I've tried writing game rules before and doing one game is difficult enough let alone doing the core rules for several games and factions all at once as well as revising previous rules and coming up with new rules for whatever factions may exist in the future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 08:06:20
2018/04/28 23:59:41
Subject: Re:We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
Ive been thinking about this. Chapter Approved has to be the solution. If the Chapter Approved was a reprinted version of the rules, including all of the errata and FAQ, then that solves much of the problem for the core rules.
For the codexes, i think re-releasing rules annually with the errata included, but also include your flavour-of-the-month supplement here.
So once per year you can throw out your core rules FAQs, and once per year you can choose to throw out your codex FAQs.
Most people wont buy every book every year, but after 3 years I think most people would replace them - and thats approximately the usual cycle.
2018/04/29 02:37:09
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
plark wrote: I actually just go into 40k last month, it's actually nice knowing that they update rules on the fly, lots of games do that. If you have a good teacher/store you can learn pretty quickly. Who uses a rulebook anyways? Every game I have played, regardless it being a 2000 point game and or a teaching game,, not one person had a rulebook in sight. I don't know if this is common, but as a noob I could care less how many documents I have to have as long as they don't ignore the broken stuff.
This is good to hear from a new player.
After a few games you wont need the 40kBRB also you can just print out the Depolyments if you dont know them and use Chapter Approve missions and never need to carry the BRB at all, and once you learn you army you dont need the codex as much and can leave it in your bag for the most part (tho that might take 20+ games to learn you army)
Some people over react just to be reacting, updating the game is good, so what if you need to print out a couple pages to learn a few faqs, but any experience player will read the faqs once or twice and know what is changed and mostly why, they wont need to carry around.
I have a backpack with all my rules and hang it on my chair where i play, if i need a book out i get it out, i mostly just bring them for others to look at, and not so much for me.
So you print out 2-3 pages, fold them and stick them in your codex if it's that big of a deal? Or do what any sane person does and make your cheat sheet.
I have a genuine solution for your BCB; stop playing 40K.
2018/04/29 16:47:35
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
Mayk0l wrote: I feel the new GW system is great. They are actively listening to the community and updating their rules.
However I feel they're too hooked on paper. A living ruleset would work much better with a living online document that gets updated, removing any outdated information.
Record profits from selling you new paper every few weeks. Stop getting scammed and stop buying gw printed books. They are literally full of errors and FAQ's are being prepared before release.
How many people bought the garbage index just for it to be literal garbage now?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/29 16:49:16
2018/04/29 16:59:38
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
EnTyme wrote: Did someone actually charge you money for the FAQ, Pancakey? If so, you should probably demand your money back.
I don't buy paper gw rules anymore. The 8th ed rules base just too much of a mess. The paper codexs that have been released are not actually usable as printed because so much has changed.
2018/04/29 17:24:49
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
EnTyme wrote: Did someone actually charge you money for the FAQ, Pancakey? If so, you should probably demand your money back.
I don't buy paper gw rules anymore. The 8th ed rules base just too much of a mess. The paper codexs that have been released are not actually usable as printed because so much has changed.
Guess who just won the Most Hyperbolic Statement of the year award?
2018/04/29 21:35:12
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2018/04/30 12:54:57
Subject: We now need 11+ documents to play a single game of 40k
Galas wrote: And here I'm with my Dark Angels Codex from November that has received like 3 changes total
Outside of points, Death Guard got one change: The Daemon Prince gained an option
Once your list is build, you can use the codex as printed.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
The Space Wolves have almost more Errata than rules!
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
