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Primarchs are superhumans, each one of them is portrait as more or less skilled warrior, from the supreme duelist Angron to the mightiest of all Vulkan.
Konrad is always descripted as a sort of crazy monster / force of nature.
I think there is no match for everyone against him, is pure omicidal istinct that foresee what an enemy could do.

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Also, didn't Vulkan once die from being stabbed with a fork? Strong and durable are two very different things.

Yes, while being starved for months and being chained to a chair. Literally could not stop it from happening.

Also unarmored and Konrad was the one with the fork lol. Flesh is still flesh. This remains the same with every primarch. Besides Ferrus's arms, and that didnt help his neck.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
This remains the same with every primarch. Besides Ferrus's arms, and that didnt help his neck.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Besides Ferrus's arms, and that didnt help his neck.

 Midnightdeathblade 756538 wrote:
that didnt help his neck.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
This remains the same with every primarch. Besides Ferrus's arms, and that didnt help his neck.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Besides Ferrus's arms, and that didnt help his neck.

 Midnightdeathblade 756538 wrote:
that didnt help his neck.

I don't care who wins, so long as Lorgar loses. F--- that guy.

Once it's down to Magnus and one other guy the big red cyclops would take off his helmet and reveal he was Alpharius. The other guy would take off his helmet and its Omegon. Then they both pull off Mission Impossible/Scooby Doo style rubber masks to show Alpharius was actually Omegon & Omegon was really Alpharius.

Then a third primarch would emerge from the shadows. He's Alpharius too.

So, until Magnus is dead, Sanguinius is not going to be able to make much use of his wings, for fear of being shot down by mind bullets.

Does Lorgar have enough juice to shoot Sanguinius down with mind bullets? I know he's a pretty powerful psyker, but he's nowhere near Magnus's level.

Are there any other Primarchs that might be capable of psyker-ing Sang out of the air if he flies high enough to be visible from everywhere?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

In "Vulkan Lives", durring a flashback, Vulkan dead-lifts a Baneblade in order to make room for civilians being crushed by their own number.

In "Promethean Sun", two Salamanders recover Vulkan's helmet after the drop site massacre. One dons the helm and repalys the recorded footage, showing a first person view of Vulkan rampaging through the Death Guard and World Eaters. At one point he punches through the FRONT armor of a Vindicators and rips out the pilot, and then proceeds to squish and cast him aside. All with one arm.

In "The Beast Must Die" Vulkan Duels and defeats an Ork the size of an Imperial Knight.

Theres also a nice little image of Vulkan catching a gigantic slab of ferrocrete that was falling towards some scattering humans from the newer novel "Old Earth"


Vulkan has an element of raw strength that is inhumane even when compared to the lunacy that is the Primarchs. If he gets his hands a hold of you, or Terra forbid lands a strike with one of his hammers, the only outcome is someone scooping your paste up off the battlefield. And you may think this power comes with a large drawback in speed. Nah, hes able to keep up with any of his brothers reaction wise.

And Angron has stopped a Warhound Titan's advance by holding its foot in place with his bare hands in Betrayer, as well as pushed a mountain of debris off of him in False Gods I believe. Vulkan being the physically strongest (and tallest, for that matter, in Fulgrim he was explicitly shorter than Ferrus Manus) Primarch is largely only prevalent in works by Nick Kyme, also known as the Salamanders fan in BL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'll admit, I'm a bit behind on my Horus Heresy, but is there a time where the Lion ever beat one of his brothers in a fair fight? I only know about his fights with Konrad, which go 4) Held off Konrad together *alongside* Girlyman (and still just held him off as he lured the two into a trap) 3) Konrad fled into the ship (where Lion failed to hunt him down even having home field advantage) having just woken up from a coma 2) Beat Konrad although we have no idea how fair the fight may have been and 1) stabbed Konrad in the stomach with a cowardly sucker-stab and proceeded to still lose to Konrad, having only survived the encounter due to the intervention from his bodyguards.

Seems like he has an awful lot of votes if he has a mixed record against a Primarch not known for his effectiveness in a straight fight.

Also, didn't Vulkan once die from being stabbed with a fork? Strong and durable are two very different things.

Konrad Curze was getting dominated by the Lion weapon to weapon in their first fight, only gaining the advantage when he managed to transition their fight into a brawl. Konrad is pretty consistently portrayed as a top tier brawler among the Primarchs. He almost killed Dorn with his bare hands once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
So, until Magnus is dead, Sanguinius is not going to be able to make much use of his wings, for fear of being shot down by mind bullets.

Does Lorgar have enough juice to shoot Sanguinius down with mind bullets? I know he's a pretty powerful psyker, but he's nowhere near Magnus's level.

Are there any other Primarchs that might be capable of psyker-ing Sang out of the air if he flies high enough to be visible from everywhere?

Lorgar in Betrayer was able to toss a boulder with enough force to destroy a Warhound Titan. As far as other Primarchs, while quite a few of them have shown psychic talents, the others typically do it subconsciously and requiring touch. Sanguinius is probably the third most powerful psyker among the Primarchs, having future sight and demonstrating the ability to slow his capital ships descent and guide it to a safe landing with a touch in Fear to Tread.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

And Angron has stopped a Warhound Titan's advance by holding its foot in place with his bare hands in Betrayer, as well as pushed a mountain of debris off of him in False Gods I believe. Vulkan being the physically strongest (and tallest, for that matter, in Fulgrim he was explicitly shorter than Ferrus Manus) Primarch is largely only prevalent in works by Nick Kyme, also known as the Salamanders fan in BL.

I won't comment on the strength, but it seems like Vulkan being the largest (aside from Magnus) is something FW agrees on. When his model came out they noted that he was absolutely enormous and that they designed his model (who is wearing PA) to be as large as Horus is in his TDA.

Make of that what you will.

In hand to hand its between Sangiunius, Angron, Lion, Russ, Horus and Fulgrim

In resourcefulness its Cruze, Corax

In uniting a group to kill the rest its, Girlyman, Dorn, Perty, Vulken

In guerrilla tactics its Alpharius, Khan, Cruze and Corax.

In sitting around praying until everyone is dead its Lorgar

In knowing who will win so he sits there and just watches fate unfold its Magnus.

In who gets his head chopped off its Ferrus.

There's some real discussion going on here, I'm pretty surprised at some of the choices.

One thing which surprised me is the lack of teamwork implied. The guy above me suggested it briefly, but has anyone else considered that some of the Primarches may team up? People are claiming Vulkan will take it easily, but will he if, for example, Sanguinius, Dorn and Lion gang up on him. If they do, then what happens afterwards?

 Valkyrie wrote:
There's some real discussion going on here, I'm pretty surprised at some of the choices.

One thing which surprised me is the lack of teamwork implied. The guy above me suggested it briefly, but has anyone else considered that some of the Primarches may team up? People are claiming Vulkan will take it easily, but will he if, for example, Sanguinius, Dorn and Lion gang up on him. If they do, then what happens afterwards?

All 19 others could gang up on Vulkan - incinerate him and he'll just keep coming back. He's a perpetual and cannot die. He literally goes through life playing in God Mode. It's the fundamental problem with the challenge.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
There's some real discussion going on here, I'm pretty surprised at some of the choices.

One thing which surprised me is the lack of teamwork implied. The guy above me suggested it briefly, but has anyone else considered that some of the Primarches may team up? People are claiming Vulkan will take it easily, but will he if, for example, Sanguinius, Dorn and Lion gang up on him. If they do, then what happens afterwards?

All 19 others could gang up on Vulkan - incinerate him and he'll just keep coming back. He's a perpetual and cannot die. He literally goes through life playing in God Mode. It's the fundamental problem with the challenge.

He's a perpetual, he comes back from nearly everything but he can still die as all perpetuals can. Magnus could probably find a way to kill him with his warp <removed>.

edited for language - BrookM

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
There's some real discussion going on here, I'm pretty surprised at some of the choices.

One thing which surprised me is the lack of teamwork implied. The guy above me suggested it briefly, but has anyone else considered that some of the Primarches may team up? People are claiming Vulkan will take it easily, but will he if, for example, Sanguinius, Dorn and Lion gang up on him. If they do, then what happens afterwards?

All 19 others could gang up on Vulkan - incinerate him and he'll just keep coming back. He's a perpetual and cannot die. He literally goes through life playing in God Mode. It's the fundamental problem with the challenge.

He's a perpetual, he comes back from nearly everything but he can still die as all perpetuals can. Magnus could probably find a way to kill him with his warp fuckery.

I don't know, the Warp failed to kill a single space marine captain even after a couple hundred years of his grey knight butt wandering around screwing it up. Add to it the slow trickle of normal space marines that keep getting stuck in it and fighting their way out *cough*ultramarines*cough*, 'F him up with the warp' doesn't seem like much of a threat.

regardless perpetuals can die. look at the Emperor, he must be a perpetual as all the Primarchs gifts come from him, (unless Vulkans perpetualness comes from a mutation, which I doubt) and he was brought close to death, plus its in the lore that its possible to kill Vulkan

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
regardless perpetuals can die. look at the Emperor, he must be a perpetual as all the Primarchs gifts come from him, (unless Vulkans perpetualness comes from a mutation, which I doubt) and he was brought close to death, plus its in the lore that its possible to kill Vulkan

Perpetuals aren't a genetic modification or mutation, but 'a mutation' of the soul. A kind of mystic thing that occurs outside of the emperor. There is no evidence that the emperor is a perpetual himself.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Perpetuals aren't a genetic modification or mutation, but 'a mutation' of the soul. A kind of mystic thing that occurs outside of the emperor. There is no evidence that the emperor is a perpetual himself.

The Emperor is confirmed on several occasions to be a perpetual.

But the emperor never actually died. He has been in life suport for 10000 years. For him to resurrect as a perpetual he needs to die first.

 Galas wrote:
But the emperor never actually died. He has been in life suport for 10000 years. For him to resurrect as a perpetual he needs to die first.

It's because they don;t know exactly what will happen when he regens. If they unplug and let him die there's a chance that the chaos storm may go mental and by the time he regens it's pointless.

There is also a chance that when he dies he releases a phycic burst pretty much imploding the imperium in an instant.

Or nothing might happen and he just regens.

They essentially don;t wanna take the risk. They know he will regen but no one knows what will happen inbetween.

Oh yeah I know that. If the emperor go pops theres no stop. I was just saying that because other poster said the emperor "dying" and not resurrecting was an example of perpetuals being killed.

 Galas wrote:
Oh yeah I know that. If the emperor go pops theres no stop. I was just saying that because other poster said the emperor "dying" and not resurrecting was an example of perpetuals being killed.

ahh fair do's, The Vulkan being purpetual is a silly arguement, it's not his thing if he dies he resureccts outside the battle arena and loses. Vulkans special trait is that he is absurdly strong.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


In knowing who will win so he sits there and just watches fate unfold its Magnus.

I've not seen any indication that Magnus is any good at forseeing the future. He apparently didn't see it coming when his Legion was pumped full of mutations by Tzeentch or before Russ broke his back.

The lack of Fulgrim support is surprising to me - the dude is a perfect warrior and slayed many primarchs.

Russ is getting a lot of support but he should be getting a lot more - should easily be number 1 by a mile.

How the heck could Corax be lower on this list than Curze?

 Xenomancers wrote:
The lack of Fulgrim support is surprising to me - the dude is a perfect warrior and slayed many primarchs.

Russ is getting a lot of support but he should be getting a lot more - should easily be number 1 by a mile.

How the heck could Corax be lower on this list than Curze?

Russ’s record against other primarchs is actually kind of questionable, with about equal losses and victories iirc (someone tallied them earlier in the thread). Fulgrim is a strong contender if the conflict doesn’t derail into invincibility and psychic nuking, being a duelist without equal and having 1.5 Primarch kills by the end of the HH with only moderate Chaos assistance. Corax is lower than Curze because Curze is a psyker.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The lack of Fulgrim support is surprising to me - the dude is a perfect warrior and slayed many primarchs.

Russ is getting a lot of support but he should be getting a lot more - should easily be number 1 by a mile.

How the heck could Corax be lower on this list than Curze?

Well Curze has the most Primarch kills for killing Vulkan so many times, both in capture and running around on Maccrage, that I'll wager even Curze lost count. He's fought both the Lion and Sanguinious to a draw. Almost killed Rogal Dorn and Rogal Dorn''s mustache (or was it Ferrus? ) by clawing his face off. Corax himself flees when Curze comes for him at the drop site massacre. I'll give credit where it's due and say that Corax chose a cool paint scheme for his army and the jump pack theme is neat too.

I'll choose Curze over Corax not because he has a superior track record against Primarchs or because of his powerful precognition, I choose Curze simply because of fate. Curze won't die from his brothers, his death will be by the assassin sent by the Empster. That's his schtick.

I'm all in on Horus. You don't win the Hunger Games because you are the strongest. You win because you play the game. Tactics, combat, politics, you got to play them all or just get lucky.

When it comes to doing everything, Horus is your man. He wasn't named Warmaster for nothing.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm all in on Horus. You don't win the Hunger Games because you are the strongest. You win because you play the game. Tactics, combat, politics, you got to play them all or just get lucky.

When it comes to doing everything, Horus is your man. He wasn't named Warmaster for nothing.

I don't like the "fate" argument here. Curze is fated to die by M'Shen hands in the "main" timeline. This is not the main timeline, as that battle royale never happened. Sanguinius got the premonition that he was gonna die on Terra. By your argument, he therefore can't die in that battle royale. So now you've got two people that can't die but only one can survive.That thread takes place outside the main story, therefore its causality is not the same. Then comes the fact that every Primarch had a "fate", they just didn't have the precognition to foresee it. How can Lorgar bring forth the Heresy and the Battle of Calth if he dies in the Hunger Games ? Etc, etc

Vulkan, because he cheats and can't be killed.

I've enjoyed this thread, you guys are obviously much more learned in the ways of grimdark lore than my humble self. My vote goes to Magnus though. Even considering the other primarchs have varying degrees of natural psychic resistance, I feel he'd have enough raw power and plenty of tricks up his sleeve. The only way I see him losing is if he gets ganged up on.
If I was going to rules lawyer it, I'd consider Vulkan to be out once he's downed. (Doesn't he take significant time to come back to his senses? Also if he's been vaporised, doesn't he appear somewhere else in the galaxy?)
As for Curze, I dont know enough about his fate situation to comment on that.
Interesting read though.

Engrenages wrote:

I don't like the "fate" argument here. Curze is fated to die by M'Shen hands in the "main" timeline. This is not the main timeline, as that battle royale never happened. Sanguinius got the premonition that he was gonna die on Terra. By your argument, he therefore can't die in that battle royale. So now you've got two people that can't die but only one can survive.That thread takes place outside the main story, therefore its causality is not the same. Then comes the fact that every Primarch had a "fate", they just didn't have the precognition to foresee it. How can Lorgar bring forth the Heresy and the Battle of Calth if he dies in the Hunger Games ? Etc, etc

Fate in 40K isn't really a "this thing will definitely happen" thing anyway. It's why Farseers and other Psykers who scry the future are useful.

Curze could have died. He was just spared.

His precognitive abilities in a combat setting inconsistent as well so I wouldn't depend on them to win a battle royale.