last update for grey knights is disappointing.

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**Flamephoenix182**

Marmatag wrote:
Yeah, that one is just flat absurd.

Next in line is how bad Kaldor Draigo and Grand Master Voldus are for their points.

Really all GK HQs are bad, except the GMNDK which is very clearly overcosted given the power creep of 8th so far.

So I'm curious. What do you think they should cost? I know we have been tossing around a lot of different rule fixes... but realistically short of a reworked codex all we are going to get is some points changes in the next CA...

(Ideally I would prefer the rework over points drops just because IMO the amount of points you would need to drop a lot of the grey knights units to make them no longer a super elite army, which is one of the aspects I like about them)

**BrianDavion**

Marmatag wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
Karol if you want to know why there isn't anything in the GK Tactica thread, that is because everything was already discussed and hashed out within the first twenty pages. It is a very shallow codex that has no combos because it gives no CPs, psychic powers that suck, overpriced units, and of course there are the occasional invaders who pop in and try to explain how GK are good and we just don't have the IQ to understand; that it is us as players who cause GK to fail.

Basically.

GK's role in this game was supplanted by Custodes. Because they do literally everything better than GK. More shooty, more mobile, more punch in assault, better stratagems, wound rerolls, FLY, better invulns, better toughness, better strength, etc. For essentially the same cost.

And if you were bringing 3x GMNDK, now you can just bring Imperial Knights next to your Guard. Or just wise the hell up and bring Custodes.

I always laugh when people talk about how buffs to GK would step on Custodes toes. Custodes trampled GK into dust when they were released. The overlap already exists.

This is why I would improve the GK psychic phase. It's what makes them unique. The best way (imho) to do this is with expanded sets of psychic powers, and vastly improved sanctic powers. I would also completely change stratagems and traits. Psybolt ammo should be free in the same way Deathwatch get free insanely stronger way better ammunition for absolute 0 cost.

GKs role was only supplanted by the people who insist GKs role is marching 2+ armored troops around and smacking things with their swords. If thats GKs niche they need a redesign anyway. they're psykic deamon hunters and GW should work around that. the problem with GKs isn't custodes, it's that GK's pyskic abilities are well.. CRAP.

Are you serious, look at Paladins. You're paying for wounds, saves, and melee attacks. Further everything has a force weapon. Do you honestly think that GW didn't intend for GK to ever use those force weapons?

I'm not saying GKs aren't a melee army, I'm saying they are, or at least if they're well designed SHOULD BE, more then JUST "those guys in 2+ armor with melee weapons" basicly if Custodes have supplanted them it's because GKs have been poorly designed (something we all agree is the case) and there is plenty of room for the two armies to co-exist.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Marmatag wrote:
Yeah, that one is just flat absurd.

Next in line is how bad Kaldor Draigo and Grand Master Voldus are for their points.

Really all GK HQs are bad, except the GMNDK which is very clearly overcosted given the power creep of 8th so far.

I don't think Draigo is terrible for the points as he's got standard Chapter Master bonuses, but his warlord trait is bad and there isn't a lot for him to buff. Plus other Chapter Masters are better for the most part. I'll take any of the names ones any day for Grey Knights compared to him as they give funky little bonuses. He just needs one more bonus rule...

**Smotejob**

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