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Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Beef wrote: This argument goes round and round, then reapears again a month later. Marines are the most played army out there. its GW main cash cow. if they made marines gak then Gw would lose alot of sales and thats not what they want. Its profit driven not balance driven.

Beef: Have you considered that if the other armies were all sub-par compared to Marines that we'd just have lots of Marine vs Marine battles (which has been the trend for the longest time). Secondly, if GW was concerned about profits, making armies that have a hard time wining while fully supporting them with new product lines is hardly good business sense. Some amount of balance is necessary to move product.

As for my list of units which are balls: I hope you are not suggesting that all those multi-wound Tyranid buggers and battlewagons are good choices. The tyraniids suffered from autokill in V3 and now newly in V4. Gargoyles are too many points compared to Hormagaunts - and the low AV battlewagon is a laughable choice at best.

I also hope you are joking about possessed. In all my days as a 40k player, I have NEVER seen anyone use Chaos possessed. Frankly, they are huge amounts of balls considering the points cost. Making fast moving ones makes Raptors look like points effective models, and the choppy ones are about twice the cost of a comparitively priced daemon pack unit.

If those units were good, you might see a tournament army using large quantities of those units. Somehow, I doubt it though.
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Back on topic: Honestly, If I were redoing Marines, I would do 3 things. Marines have 2 defining traits. They are good at everything, and they have ATSKNF. My main change would be thus:

Tactical Marine - 20 points
Abilities: ATSKNF, true grit
Weapon: Bolter, CCW (combat knife), frag and krak grenades
Statline: As present

Everything else would be adjusted to suit. You'd have the ultimate all-round warrior.

Also, I'd get rid of the current trait system and base the army type around "strategems" purchase-able by the commander / chaplain or librarian. Examples might be:

Fist of the Emperor: Siege Specialists, Devestators as Elites and Heavy Support, no cover saves alowed.
Might of the ancients: 1+ Tech Marines as HQ, Dreadnoughts as Elites and Heavy Support
Riders on the Winds: Bikes as troops and fast attack, Skilled rider and move through cover for all units. No unmounted units alowed. No drop pods.

etc.

The current "disadvantage" selection is laughable and should probably be scrapped altogether.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

I regulary use nurgle posseded with rending claws in tournies. The ulramauleens list is not that good. if people think that is really hard to kill then it just shows the player level of skill or lack of.

As for the traits system its not bad for normal codex type marines as it give players a bit of flexibility to design there own chapter. Not that i bother with traits, i usually play the first founding chpaters, ultramarines, SW, BA.
As for the GW cash cow which are marines GW wont bother invest in the other armies so much as kids will buy anything new that comes out and then get bored when they relise that the new army is crap.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Beef: Schweet. 30 point models that still get chewed by all the normal MEQ killers.  (lascannons, missile launchers, plasma, powerfists, daemon princes, battlecannons, demolishers, etc. etc. etc.)  Where do I sign up! (Not the greatest choice where I game. Still, YMMV).
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

ymmv?? whats that meen?

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

Your Mileage May Vary.

There is a difference between tournaments where people don't bring hard armies and a tournament where people do. I know when my friends and I play with really hard armies the non effective units really start to show how poor they are.

   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

most units are effective at soimething or another, it depends on how you use them.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Beef: There's the rub, what is a unit of Nurgle possessed with talons good for? It is an expensive unit, with resilience vs. small arms, limited protection vs. heavy weapons, is slow, and has good HTH ability. S5, T5, 5+I and Talons. 30+ points each.

The whole problem with possessed is that they are slow as crap. If you give them wings, they are fast, but lack punch and staying power in HTH. They also make Raptors look like absolute bargains (which they are clearly not). If you park the nurgle possessed with talons in a rhino (+58 points), they can not assault the turn they disembark. Canny enemies will shoot the bejebus out of them or move away from them.

Use them as an objective holding unit? Frankly, they are not that resilient. A unit of chaos marines with twice their number is resilient. Lets face it, daemonic aura is only a stones throw away from having no save.

Trust me, I've given possessed a long hard look - and honestly, CHOSEN are better uses for those elite slots! They get better HTH options, AND better shooting options.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

maybe you are right but i find them usefull and also quite fluffy. its a personnal choice. they can be usefull if assualting out of a landraider with a lord.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
 
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