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Longtime Dakkanaut




For those having issues following specific things, I highly recommend looking at the X-ray Trivia category. Jordan used a *LOT* of footnotes and glossary entries to explain his world, and a great deal of those have been adopted where appropriate for the show. They don't quite go so far as Villenueve did for Dune with regards to keeping exposition somewhat limited in relation to the source material, but they have more than two hours to work with so there's time to sneak some in on-screen here and there.

As to Liandrin, she's very much in the spirit of her novellic counterpart even if minor details have been updated. The entire philosophical debate amongst the sisters in EP4 over what to do with Logain is precisely to tee up just how militant and divergent the Reds are becoming.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/01 19:33:20


 
   
Made in us
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 Mr Morden wrote:
meaning of rivers?
Huh? Stream of life....maybe - did not seem that important at the moment



The river is a metaphor that shows up a lot in narration in the books. Don't worry too much about the literal importance of the river, but if you're trying to do any literary analysis here the metaphor of the river ties back into a lot of the central themes of the story.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
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Proud Triarch Praetorian





Sterling191 wrote:
As to Liandrin, she's very much in the spirit of her novellic counterpart even if minor details have been updated. The entire philosophical debate amongst the sisters in EP4 over what to do with Logain is precisely to tee up just how militant and divergent the Reds are becoming.


I absolutely hated this scene. It was completely unnecessary and I am not sure what it had to do with the plot at all. Why are we showing the Reds this way? Yes, SOME of the Reds are less than ideal, but the whole Ajah is not going nuts or defecting in such ways. Nor was the gentling of Logain handled in such a way.
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




As someone who has read the series multiple times I absolutely love it so far. Yes they make some changes but let's be honest, the first book could have taken multiple seasons of a show in order to get ALL of it in. Cutting some stuff while focusing on the most important parts is just part of adapting books to other media. The only problem with it is the fact that people who are not familiar with the source might be confused why certain things were added in because they tie into something later, AKA Shadar Logoth.

I am watching it with my wife and she has never read the books and she is learning it all as we go along. So far she is really enjoying it as well.

The one thing that she brought up that did ruin one of the changes she made is the fact that in the show they say the Dragon Reborn can be a man or a woman, but if the Dragon was reincarnated as a woman then they would have the power of the Dragon without the tainting of the one power. I laughed about it because I was okay with almost every change they have made so far but that one was such a lapse in judgement that it creates a massive plot hole that didn't exist in the books.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Shadar Logoth is going to be an issue in the future because they spent exactly 30 seconds explaining it. Considering it is pretty important to the story down the road, I think it deserved a little more.

The whole "Who could the Dragon Reborn be?!" is pretty irritating. You know who it is less than halfway through the first book.

Making them all 20+ kind of makes a coming of age story, well, pointless.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/05 13:58:49



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




 Dreadwinter wrote:
Shadar Logoth is going to be an issue in the future because they spent exactly 30 seconds explaining it. Considering it is pretty important to the story down the road, I think it deserved a little more.

The whole "Who could the Dragon Reborn be?!" is pretty irritating. You know who it is less than halfway through the first book.

Making them all 20+ kind of makes a coming of age story, well, pointless.


In reference to Shadar Logoth, yes they will need to explain more of it if the series reaches that point but that is something that they can easily do later on in the show. It is possible for their to be an in character explanation that will give the viewer a better understanding of it.

The mystery they are trying to force of the Dragon Reborn is to much of a cynical drama stereotype to keep the uninitiated watching and I would bet anything that they will only reveal it at the end of the first season because of course they will....
   
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Les Etats Unis

 Lance845 wrote:
When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.


The difference is that people generally don't feel forced to mention Lady Stoneheart when explaining the core conceit of the entire ASOIAF series to a new fan. Not only is it excruciatingly obvious who the Dragon Reborn is by the end of the first Wheel of Time book, but it's also half the thematic appeal of the series.

There's nothing wrong with the show's decision to keep the characters wondering, but pretending that the audience doesn't know who the Dragon will be simply from a storytelling trope perspective is pretty far-fetched.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
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Devon, UK

GoT, TWD, probably several others I can't recall, the Dakka convention is that if there's existing source material that's being adapted, people who have knowledge of that material use spoiler tags when discussing it.

This works, is polite and respectful of others and requires almost zero effort.

This really shouldn't even be up for discussion.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in de
FOW Player






The more I see of the Whitecloaks in the tv show, the further they get from how I read them in the book and part of that is down to their costuming.

Spoiler:
When the Whitecloaks were first introduced my wife asked me, “Is he supposed to be a teaboy? I mean in-the-creepy-inappropriate-kind-of-way-tea-boy?” Same kind of thing with the forced bathing scene in a later episode. They do not come across as monastic, they come across as creepy.

Granted the latest episode got a couple things in, one being some religious fundamentalism in the dialogue and the other some skilled martial horse riding but they still come across too effete. It is one thing to have a specific high ranking figure in fine clothes, quite another to have even the rank and file in posh robes. Also, for being religiously dedicated to fighting Darkfriends and the forces of Evil they sure seem to scare easy.

Poor writing in my opinion.

Making them look weak does not help to make standing up against them look heroic.

That said I do like a lot of the other costuming and set design. I like how Lan’s horse comes across as a proper warhorse compared to the other horses of the group. The White Tower does not look as I imagined it but it looks pretty cool.

https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/improv ... me-design/

I am also glad at this point that I have forgotten much of the books. It has made it easier for me to avoid getting even more annoyed by changes.


For some reason I am struggling to like any of the characters other than Moiraine and Lan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 15:33:08


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






 Flipsiders wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.


The difference is that people generally don't feel forced to mention Lady Stoneheart when explaining the core conceit of the entire ASOIAF series to a new fan. Not only is it excruciatingly obvious who the Dragon Reborn is by the end of the first Wheel of Time book, but it's also half the thematic appeal of the series.

There's nothing wrong with the show's decision to keep the characters wondering, but pretending that the audience doesn't know who the Dragon will be simply from a storytelling trope perspective is pretty far-fetched.


They’ve already covered the entire first book in four episodes?

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
They do not come across as monastic, they come across as creepy.


That's entirely intended. The Children are basically the mid 16th century catholic church taken to a more militant extreme. They control one of the major nation-states, have a sizeable standing army and are a general pain in the ass to everyone at all times.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Granted the latest episode got a couple things in, one being some religious fundamentalism in the dialogue and the other some skilled martial horse riding but they still come across too effete. It is one thing to have a specific high ranking figure in fine clothes, quite another to have even the rank and file in posh robes. Also, for being religiously dedicated to fighting Darkfriends and the forces of Evil they sure seem to scare easy.


At this point in their history the Children are extremely decadent, despite their claims to humility and piety. It's an intentional contradiction.

As to scaring easy, I imagine if a large coordinated
Spoiler:
sentient and very angry
pack of wolves descended on my house I'd probably be a bit peaked too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 13:06:03


 
   
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[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Book spoilers are to be put in spoiler tags please, it is only common courtesy.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in de
FOW Player






The Whitecloaks deal with channeling adversaries. The show so far has not shown them to be credible combatants against competent opponents.

Spoiler:
Now I have to admit I took my image from the books a long time ago but white cloaks and tabards, conical helmets and breastplates is what I seem to recall. That and someone claiming to quote Robert Jordan saying the Teutonic Knights inspired him. Whilst flashier than Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon they were hardly decadent.

That said, doing research for this post I came across this…

ROBERT JORDAN
For Children of the Light, the Whitecloaks were inspired by the Inquisition, the SS, the Teutonic Knights and others. In fact, they were inspired by all those groups who say, "We know the truth. It is the only truth. You will believe it, or we will kill you."

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=211

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Robert_Jordan%27s_Blog

I can see how a costume designer not intimately familiar with the books might read that quote and come up with the costumes we see in the TV show. That and the show seeming to go out of its way to limit Western European imagery in the show.

Don‘t get me wrong, I like seeing quality sets and costumes with Eastern influences but it does jar when you have already mental images from the book and supporting media prior to this. Again, Jordan has spoken about his inspiration for various locations.

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/3_sources/3.14_countries.html

I have attached images a quick google search turned up for how I, and others, imagined Whitecloaks to look like. These images show costumes that to me convey military competence and function over comfort.


EDIT: I apologize if anything I have written is perceived as a spoiler. I have tried to avoid writing anything that I thought would spoil a surprise.
[Thumb - 0436BB9B-A5DB-4115-91E4-13ED6A45B4C0.jpeg]

[Thumb - 5E0B8D13-E184-479B-BC41-BC94FA9ABAE0.jpeg]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/06 15:32:22


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

Well, whoever drew that last one definitely didn't want them confused with good guys, by the Schutzstaffel insignia on the cloak.
   
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DCM User





 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
The Whitecloaks deal with channeling adversaries. The show so far has not shown them to be credible combatants against competent opponents.


EDIT: I apologize if anything I have written is perceived as a spoiler. I have tried to avoid writing anything that I thought would spoil a surprise.



One of the things I found interesting/bothersome about the whitecloaks:

Spoiler:
in the books, the way they are described, there was a clear visual difference between the Questioners and the other, combatant type soldiers of the order. In the show, they seem to all generally look the same, and you kind of have to be told who's who in that group



And WoT was always a fun world for me to think of, because the way Jordan describes the world, you the reader can basically say, Ohh well, Caemlyn has the visual elements of these three world civilisations from these other time periods. Lan, and many of the other warders fought in the books with what I read as being katanas (i guess the typical white boi fetish of the japanese sword???), but the show does handle that differently, and not in a bad way.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Flipsiders wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.


The difference is that people generally don't feel forced to mention Lady Stoneheart when explaining the core conceit of the entire ASOIAF series to a new fan. Not only is it excruciatingly obvious who the Dragon Reborn is by the end of the first Wheel of Time book, but it's also half the thematic appeal of the series.

There's nothing wrong with the show's decision to keep the characters wondering, but pretending that the audience doesn't know who the Dragon will be simply from a storytelling trope perspective is pretty far-fetched.


Sure. So has the first season/book of the show wrapped up yet so that the audience of the show is on the same page as the readers of the first book? Have we reached the Eddard Stark gets beheaded point of the show/books?

Or are you 4 episodes in and just talking about the end of the first book before it's had a chance to play out?


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran



South East London

I'll point out that I haven't read the books. It's one of the few fantasy series I just never got around to.

I was obviously aware of the books and some of my friends rate them highly.

So when I watched the first 3 episodes I was seriously underwhelmed.

I'll admit the show is now growing on me but it still feels very derivative and feels like a BBC production (that's not meant to be a criticism, but I was expecting more).

It just feels too "clean" but also feels rushed, as if they are skipping quite a lot of the story.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in de
FOW Player






 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
The Whitecloaks deal with channeling adversaries. The show so far has not shown them to be credible combatants against competent opponents.


EDIT: I apologize if anything I have written is perceived as a spoiler. I have tried to avoid writing anything that I thought would spoil a surprise.



One of the things I found interesting/bothersome about the whitecloaks:

Spoiler:
in the books, the way they are described, there was a clear visual difference between the Questioners and the other, combatant type soldiers of the order. In the show, they seem to all generally look the same, and you kind of have to be told who's who in that group



And WoT was always a fun world for me to think of, because the way Jordan describes the world, you the reader can basically say, Ohh well, Caemlyn has the visual elements of these three world civilisations from these other time periods. Lan, and many of the other warders fought in the books with what I read as being katanas (i guess the typical white boi fetish of the japanese sword???), but the show does handle that differently, and not in a bad way.


I very much agree with your spoilered point.

Spoiler:
The difference seems very i portent to me from a narrative standpoint so should be reflected in the costuming.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Laughing Man wrote:
Well, whoever drew that last one definitely didn't want them confused with good guys, by the Schutzstaffel insignia on the cloak.


I seem to recall the books mentioning the use of lightning bolts as rank insignia. It matches the quote of Jordan saying the SS were one of his inspirations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
StraightSilver wrote:
I'll point out that I haven't read the books. It's one of the few fantasy series I just never got around to.

I was obviously aware of the books and some of my friends rate them highly.

So when I watched the first 3 episodes I was seriously underwhelmed.

I'll admit the show is now growing on me but it still feels very derivative and feels like a BBC production (that's not meant to be a criticism, but I was expecting more).

It just feels too "clean" but also feels rushed, as if they are skipping quite a lot of the story.


It has been increasingly growing on me and Mrs. GG as well with each new episode but yeah, I hear you on the BBC production feel. The production values also remind me of The Witcher. The WoT book series felt derivative to me at first but gets better over time. Perhaps this show williger better over time as well. There have been some good scenes at least.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/06 18:29:28


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So uh, I am very confused by this last episode, are we completely skipping... (Book and Show spoilers ahead)

Spoiler:
Caimlyn and Fal Dara? There are several important characters in Caimlyn we need to meet, unless we are just skipping the entire plot of the first book?

Also, Loial is almost 10 feet tall in the book. Where is Elyas Machera to start Perrin's journey? I guess I shouldn't be surprised since they cut out Mashadar.


Very very confused.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Les Etats Unis

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So uh, I am very confused by this last episode, are we completely skipping... (Book and Show spoilers ahead)

Spoiler:
Caimlyn and Fal Dara? There are several important characters in Caimlyn we need to meet, unless we are just skipping the entire plot of the first book?

Also, Loial is almost 10 feet tall in the book. Where is Elyas Machera to start Perrin's journey? I guess I shouldn't be surprised since they cut out Mashadar.


Very very confused.


Spoiler:
I haven't gotten around to watching episode 5, but keep in mind the important events in Camelyn require Logain to be their to have their full impact. If he isn't there by the fifth episode, Rand and Mat won't be either.


 Lance845 wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.


The difference is that people generally don't feel forced to mention Lady Stoneheart when explaining the core conceit of the entire ASOIAF series to a new fan. Not only is it excruciatingly obvious who the Dragon Reborn is by the end of the first Wheel of Time book, but it's also half the thematic appeal of the series.

There's nothing wrong with the show's decision to keep the characters wondering, but pretending that the audience doesn't know who the Dragon will be simply from a storytelling trope perspective is pretty far-fetched.


Sure. So has the first season/book of the show wrapped up yet so that the audience of the show is on the same page as the readers of the first book? Have we reached the Eddard Stark gets beheaded point of the show/books?

Or are you 4 episodes in and just talking about the end of the first book before it's had a chance to play out?


Spoiler:
While I'm willing to follow your request, I do want to note that you don't actually learn who the Dragon is by the end of the first book; you only learn that Rand is capable of channeling. My point was that it's pretty expected that the super-important protagonist who is also one of the only two men in the setting capable of magic will also be the prophesized world savior. In fact, most show viewers should be able to deduce the dragon is either Rand or Nynaeve by now through Main Character Syndrome alone. It's not exactly a murder mystery, folks.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Flipsiders wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
So uh, I am very confused by this last episode, are we completely skipping... (Book and Show spoilers ahead)

Spoiler:
Caimlyn and Fal Dara? There are several important characters in Caimlyn we need to meet, unless we are just skipping the entire plot of the first book?

Also, Loial is almost 10 feet tall in the book. Where is Elyas Machera to start Perrin's journey? I guess I shouldn't be surprised since they cut out Mashadar.


Very very confused.


Spoiler:
I haven't gotten around to watching episode 5, but keep in mind the important events in Camelyn require Logain to be their to have their full impact. If he isn't there by the fifth episode, Rand and Mat won't be either.


 Lance845 wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
When Game of Thrones was something people gave a gak about the people who read the books shut the feth up about the red wedding until after people had watched it. And after it was done they shut the feth up about lady stone heart because they were waiting for it to happen in the show and people who didn't read to catch up (it never happened but that is beside the point).

Just because the show COULD be different, doesn't mean you shouldn't shut the feth up just in case the same things happen.

The GoT readers were very good about this.

Just my 2 cents on whether people should feel comfortable spoilering a blah blah year old story.


The difference is that people generally don't feel forced to mention Lady Stoneheart when explaining the core conceit of the entire ASOIAF series to a new fan. Not only is it excruciatingly obvious who the Dragon Reborn is by the end of the first Wheel of Time book, but it's also half the thematic appeal of the series.

There's nothing wrong with the show's decision to keep the characters wondering, but pretending that the audience doesn't know who the Dragon will be simply from a storytelling trope perspective is pretty far-fetched.


Sure. So has the first season/book of the show wrapped up yet so that the audience of the show is on the same page as the readers of the first book? Have we reached the Eddard Stark gets beheaded point of the show/books?

Or are you 4 episodes in and just talking about the end of the first book before it's had a chance to play out?


Spoiler:
While I'm willing to follow your request, I do want to note that you don't actually learn who the Dragon is by the end of the first book; you only learn that Rand is capable of channeling. My point was that it's pretty expected that the super-important protagonist who is also one of the only two men in the setting capable of magic will also be the prophesized world savior. In fact, most show viewers should be able to deduce the dragon is either Rand or Nynaeve by now through Main Character Syndrome alone. It's not exactly a murder mystery, folks.


Pretty sure you learn who it is by the time you get to Caemlyn because of...

Spoiler:
Min and the repeating of the Karatheon Cycle, also learning the birthplace and actual backstory of the character. Which we learn in Book 1. We 100% for sure know who it is by Fal Dara, which is also in the first book.


But, they are skipping things to make "drama" in a book that didn't use this as a story hook.
   
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 Dreadwinter wrote:


But, they are skipping things to make "drama" in a book that didn't use this as a story hook.


They are either skipping things, or, like a casino card dealer, shuffling things around to mix things up a bit. As the show is a different medium, the show runners are perhaps wanting to focus on different things. As such, it may make sense for things to be different from the books to the show.

Spoiler:
For instance, in the books, Perrin is described as always being slow. . . yet in the show, it is hard to really portray that, so we "force" that aspect of his character, by making him married, and then killing his own wife.

I dont recall when we actually meet Elyas, but perhaps in the show, he is still coming, as Perrin as yet has not fully manifested the super-bark abilities. . . i mean, his eyes only changed a few instances thus far in show, so he doesnt seem quite fully aware of whats going on yet.

We also don't have any sword training montage scenes between Rand and Lan, which are pretty important pieces of the early series. . . so far, absolutely NOBODY has noticed this kid carrying one of the "super badass" swords that all the sword-bros drool over, and thus, no body has called him on it, yet book readers know what the sword is/is supposed to mean.


I've a feeling that some things will be coming out of order for the sake of "better" on screen story boarding, rather than staying 100% true to the source materials. Undoubtedly these decisions will affect viewership, as Id wager some of the truly die hard readers will rage quit the show before it gets going. . . however, the audience that NEEDS to be sold on the show, and watch the show, are the people who have not read the books, or only have a passing interest in fantasy stories (as i am sure that Amazon will be using a similar viewership metrics to what Netflix does when it determines whether this show is worth continuing or not)
   
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Les Etats Unis

Mixed feelings about the sword:


Spoiler:

Rand and Lan's sword training isn't too relevant to the plot until the beginning of book 2, since Lan's teachings and technique are instrumental to Rand winning against the Shadow at Falme. With that in mind, it makes sense that they wouldn't broach the subject until most of the important aspects of the first book have been taken care of. Some people have mentioned feeling overwhelmed by the information in the show already, which gives that decision a lot of legitimacy.

However, as Ensis pointed out, it's extremely strange that the Heron-Mark blade hasn't even been mentioned by name as of yet. I believe Tam tells Rand about its significance before he even leaves the Two Rivers, and he covers the blade multiple times throughout the first book to avoid unwanted attention.

Even before the first episode released, I remember a lot of people being confused about the sword's general design: For some reason, the herons in the actual prop are placed on the base of the blade, rather than the hilt. Rand is supposed to be marked by the Heron by gripping the hilt too hard, so why are they on the blade instead? Is that entire scene going to be removed? If so, why include the Herons in the first place? It's pretty baffling.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




The Wheel of Time is a massive story, spanning 15 books, 704 total chapters and a whopping 4.4 million words.


I think you're getting caught up in minutiae in a series that has _way_ too much of it. By necessity, the move to a different format is going to take an axe to a lot of 'stuff.' Sword porn button trivia is a good thing to cut.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Voss wrote:
The Wheel of Time is a massive story, spanning 15 books, 704 total chapters and a whopping 4.4 million words.


I think you're getting caught up in minutiae in a series that has _way_ too much of it. By necessity, the move to a different format is going to take an axe to a lot of 'stuff.' Sword porn button trivia is a good thing to cut.


Spoiler:
Rand's involvement with the Heron-Mark blade, including his scarring from the hilt, is actually an extremely important part of his character development starting as early from the second book. There are some deuteragonists who you can argue could be taken out more easily than this aspect.

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Voss wrote:
The Wheel of Time is a massive story, spanning 15 books, 704 total chapters and a whopping 4.4 million words.


I think you're getting caught up in minutiae in a series that has _way_ too much of it. By necessity, the move to a different format is going to take an axe to a lot of 'stuff.' Sword porn button trivia is a good thing to cut.


It is hardly sword porn button trivia.

But I do not like characters being cut either.

If I like a book I want the movie of the book to stay as true to the book as possible.

Spoiler:
I fail to see how killing his wife is movie speak for Perrin being “slow”.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 07:27:52


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Voss wrote:
The Wheel of Time is a massive story, spanning 15 books, 704 total chapters and a whopping 4.4 million words.


I think you're getting caught up in minutiae in a series that has _way_ too much of it. By necessity, the move to a different format is going to take an axe to a lot of 'stuff.' Sword porn button trivia is a good thing to cut.


The Heron blade is pretty significant to the story. It's not even sword porn, at the time they are teaching them to fight so they can survive the monstrous beasts chasing them through the world trying to eat them. But also...

Spoiler:
The marking by the Heron is one of the first steps in the Prophecy of the Dragon in the Karatheon Cycle, which we have learned next to nothing about. He gets two marks eventually, these marks are supposed to identify him as the Dragon. We learn this as early as the first book. Next they will cut out the dragon tattoos he gets at Car'a'carn or the banner itself. Who needs a Horn of Valere anyways?

I have next to 0 faith they will get the Green Man, Forsaken, or the Eye of the World right in any way.

It really doesn't feel very Wheel of Time.
   
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 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


Spoiler:
I fail to see how killing his wife is movie speak for Perrin being “slow”.



It seems we are both familiar with both the book and the show, so I'll expand some of my earlier thoughts:

Spoiler:
In the books, Perrin isn't described as "slow" but more that he's "slow to act". .. . Like, he's definitely depicted as being the bigger and strongest of the youths his age. In the books he does not want to hurt anyone, and acts slowly in order to avoid hurting others.

In the series, it seems that they are unable/unwilling to write that out effectively, so they provide a wife to kill off quite quickly. . . And so, we are seeing a grieving bloke who seems to be getting toward the "slow to act" because "my quick actions in the past killed someone I loved dearly"

Maybe I'm not seeing it the right way??? But it does seem to me that they are getting Perrin to a point where he was in the books: prefers to think things through, doesn't want to hurt anyone, and as a result is slow to action. . . Which isn't the same thing as "slow". . To me, the Perrin of the books may come to the same quick acting decision as say, the impulsive Mat. But Perrin has a strong need to think the situation through, like Jordan takes great pains to reference the previous blacksmith's twisted metal logic puzzles, especially when dealing with the character of Perrin.


I dunno, again, maybe I'm just seeing things differently/wrongly?
   
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 Dreadwinter wrote:
Voss wrote:
The Wheel of Time is a massive story, spanning 15 books, 704 total chapters and a whopping 4.4 million words.


I think you're getting caught up in minutiae in a series that has _way_ too much of it. By necessity, the move to a different format is going to take an axe to a lot of 'stuff.' Sword porn button trivia is a good thing to cut.


The Heron blade is pretty significant to the story. It's not even sword porn, at the time they are teaching them to fight so they can survive the monstrous beasts chasing them through the world trying to eat them. But also...

Its a super-katana. Its basically the definition of sword porn, written when fanboys would rhapsodize for hours about their crappy Muramasa knock-offs.

[Its also weirdly at odds with later books, where Jordan starts fetishizing the quarterstaff instead)

Spoiler:
The marking by the Heron is one of the first steps in the Prophecy of the Dragon in the Karatheon Cycle, which we have learned next to nothing about. He gets two marks eventually, these marks are supposed to identify him as the Dragon. We learn this as early as the first book. Next they will cut out the dragon tattoos he gets at Car'a'carn or the banner itself. Who needs a Horn of Valere anyways?

Yeah, see, that's all gibberish.

Its literally this:
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/fiction_rule_of_thumb.png

Complete with bonus apostrophe word salad that even GW grew up enough to discard. Its a literary sin that Jordan was really egregious about (something he learned churning out trash Conan novels in a rush in the early 80s), but its not something you want to retain if you want to keep an audience for a show. You want to engage them, not bury them under a flood of bull-gak terminology.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/09 02:03:17


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