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 TheSecretSquig wrote:
UK 2019 forecasted inflation is predicted to be around 2%. GW's £0.20 rise on paint pots is 8%. I'm sue there's some logic there............... Just struggling to see it.

The last interim GW financials showed a reduction in their margins, sales were going up really well but profits not going up by so much. They may be trying to get back to the margins they had a year ago.

Anyone with a better memory than me want to recall the last time the prices of start collecting sets or paint pots went up? I figure those make up a large enough proportion of their sales to really matter to their profit margins.

Bit surprised with the paint increase given GW paint is already so expensive compared to competitors. For certain paints that are not available elsewhere with the same quality (certain colors & technical paints) I am willing to shell out plenty extra but for regular colors not so much. Especially with the pot design.

Start collecting prices going up I am not surprised by, it was inevitable. But if it is really going to be $100 that is a bad plan because the impression is of a much bigger price due to sticker shock of three digits. Even $95 would give a much better impression.

It might also be because in AoS some armies are almost entirely within their Start Collecting box. Take Fyreslayers almost all the models are in the SC box and the Magmadragon isn't even sold outside of it (they list it on the website, but it just comes in the same SC box with all the rest at the same price). So chances are on armies like that GW isn't seeing huge profits because most people are building the bulk of the army though SC boxes.

Now granted part of that is in GW's camp - they chose to make dwarves into multipel smaller groups and haven't released more models or/nor combined them into a larger unified force.

That is a good point, the SC boxes are wierdly designed, but mostly because large single miniatures are pretty over priced from GW.

With Fyreslayers it is probably that the box is not really good value compared to the others because the Fyreslayers themselves are so overpriced. (And fugly, but that is subjective).

 Arbitrator wrote:
They probably figure if they do this now, people will defend it and some might even support it out of some weird place of fanboyism.

Already happening, including right below my last post:

I just want to say thank you to GW for the heads up on the approaching price rises! Another sign of their big attitude change toward gamers!

That's someone defending, nay, thanking GW for this, because they told us in advance. It shows the 'big change' in their 'attitude'.

 Vankraken wrote:
Even better, stop making HQs mono pose so have a reason to get multiples of the same model without having what looks like a bunch of clones.

But if they have options and modularity, third party bits makers will destroy them!!!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Raising the price of SC! is an obvious prelude to raising the price of kits that SC! include, because then you can reframe the second raise as "this makes SC! boxes even better value!"

Then another 6 months later you bring the rest of the kits "into line" and ergo presto, an across the board hike with minimal negative publicity.

But GW would never do that. They've changed! They post funny videos on YouTube and have a Facebook page! That means they're better... somehow...

If they really wanted to be helpful they'd tell us which Star Collectings are going up.

"But that would encourage people to buy them now!!!" someone would no doubt bleat at us.

... and why wouldn't GW want to encourage sales?

I never said I liked higher prices
All I said was thanks because this is being announced a month or so in advance of a price rise that is coming. It is a change because in the past GW would have just raised the prices overnight; or we might have had a week or so of confusion as retailers (3rd party) got updates and some of that info filtered out to us.

Instead GW has told us up front that there's a rise coming and what the rise is going to be on and by roughly how much we can expect the rise. So in my view its all good information.

Many companies don't give any warning; prices just go up and there's no advanced notice. It's good customer service that they have told us of the rise.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they really wanted to be helpful they'd tell us which Star Collectings are going up.

"But that would encourage people to buy them now!!!" someone would no doubt bleat at us.

... and why wouldn't GW want to encourage sales?

They answered this on FB. All of them except the Khorne Bloodbound and Stormcast SC (presumably because they are ETB).

I'll be sticking with GW paints because I've tried the rest and they are not as good in the long run. The only ones I don't like are the taller wash bottles, so I just put the wash into shorter bottles.
The SC price increase won't effect me much, the ones I want still have a massive saving.

happy_inquisitor wrote:
Anyone with a better memory than me want to recall the last time the prices of start collecting sets or paint pots went up? I figure those make up a large enough proportion of their sales to really matter to their profit margins.

Paints last went up mid-2015, Base paints went from £2.40 to £2.55, Edge paints from £2.55 to £2.75, Shades went up in price but also pot size.

There are many reasons not to use GW paints, price being just one.

For me the biggest issue with them is colour consistency.

They've changed the colours three times over the life of my blood angels army. Had i used GW paints, everything would be differtent shades of red.

But I used vallejo model air Italian red. Its the same now as it was a decade ago. That matters.

That vallejo (or reaper, scale 75, Mig Ammo or any other) are both cheaper and better packaged is just a bonus.

NoggintheNog wrote:
They've changed the colours three times over the life of my blood angels army. Had i used GW paints, everything would be differtent shades of red.

They haven't changed the paint line since 2012.

redux wrote:
Current exchange rate for 20 p is $0.25 US. I believe GW offers 102 paints in it's line. This ends up being an increase in the neighborhood of $25.50 for one of every pot.

I'm not sure that I'm going to be lighting torches and sharpening pitch forks over this.

Current exchange rate means absolutely nothing. GW makes up their own exchange rates that are fairly outdated. I don't have the exact number memorized, but I think they value 1 pound to equal 1.6usd. Also noting that for most of the world, the price is exactly as listed, with tax baked in, while in the US, the tax is added after the fact. So that 20p actually is closer to 36 cents, + tax, so about 40 cents. Not overly much honestly, but 5-10 pounds on start collecting sets means 8-16 dollars. Buying at retail price with tax, you will be on the lower end at 100 bucks, and with the more expensive bump well over 100 bucks.

As it is, the only time I really buy GW products is when ebay has a 15% coupon, as that way I can usually avoid tax, get free shipping, and have an actually halfway decent deal that I can justify spending.

Most likely GW is hedging its bets with Brexit, as that is a whole mess of uncertainties piling up. The problem is that GW never does price decreases, so if it ends up smooth sailing, we'll still be stuck with the extra costs.

So, I confess to not knowing much about other companies’ paint “blends”...but GW having pricier paints that come pre-set as shades, base paints, layers, edges, dries, washes, glazes...part of that upcost is having the paint styles ready made for everyone to pick up and use immediately without having to fish for that correct blend. Or pigment changes that allow for good coverage for difficult colors like red, yellow and orange. $0.25/pot increase won’t kill me. The SC cost increases suck though...gonna snag 2 Slaanesh SC boxes off eBay before the hike hits.

Different shades of brown aren't somehow more expensive.

Plus Reaper have been doing their triads since forever.

 pretre wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they really wanted to be helpful they'd tell us which Star Collectings are going up.

"But that would encourage people to buy them now!!!" someone would no doubt bleat at us.

... and why wouldn't GW want to encourage sales?

They answered this on FB. All of them except the Khorne Bloodbound and Stormcast SC (presumably because they are ETB).

The Imperial Guard SC isn't even a saving if you take away the Commissar now. Joy.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Different shades of brown aren't somehow more expensive.

Plus Reaper have been doing their triads since forever.

And Wargames Foundry, plus some P3 paints are explicitly shades and highlights eg Sanguine Base and Sanguine Highlight.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Different shades of brown aren't somehow more expensive.

Plus Reaper have been doing their triads since forever.

And Wargames Foundry, plus some P3 paints are explicitly shades and highlights eg Sanguine Base and Sanguine Highlight.

Secret Weapon also has shade, mid tone and highlights. They're marketed as weathering acrylics but I use Tire Black, Rubber and Rubber Highlight for basically every black model that I paint.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
They probably figure if they do this now, people will defend it and some might even support it out of some weird place of fanboyism.

Already happening, including right below my last post:

I just want to say thank you to GW for the heads up on the approaching price rises! Another sign of their big attitude change toward gamers!

That's someone defending, nay, thanking GW for this, because they told us in advance. It shows the 'big change' in their 'attitude'.

 Vankraken wrote:
Even better, stop making HQs mono pose so have a reason to get multiples of the same model without having what looks like a bunch of clones.

But if they have options and modularity, third party bits makers will destroy them!!!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Raising the price of SC! is an obvious prelude to raising the price of kits that SC! include, because then you can reframe the second raise as "this makes SC! boxes even better value!"

Then another 6 months later you bring the rest of the kits "into line" and ergo presto, an across the board hike with minimal negative publicity.

But GW would never do that. They've changed! They post funny videos on YouTube and have a Facebook page! That means they're better... somehow...

If they really wanted to be helpful they'd tell us which Star Collectings are going up.

"But that would encourage people to buy them now!!!" someone would no doubt bleat at us.

... and why wouldn't GW want to encourage sales?

People generally understand that improvement does not mean perfection or even good, just that it is better than before. People also generally understand that providing entertaining content on youtube & facebook is better than not providing such content.

Ok, and?

My point was a number of folks here seem to explain away or ignore anything bad GW does because they've "changed", and most of that change amounts to a social media presence.

A great video looking back on the year's miniatures does not undo the bull gak of an unnecessary price rise.

 Geifer wrote:
There's nothing great about this. The heads-up is just the least bothersome part about it.

With how many people often profess their support for GW's competitors' paint ranges, I have to wonder why they think increasing the price for paints is a good idea.

Well, given the UK is imploding due to brexit, I'm gonna guess this is an economic reaction, not a ploy to get more money.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.
But the number of businesses projected to not make it through Brexit is considerably large.
Admittedly they are all going to be huge names. But there are always companies that you ‘never expected to go under’ in regular times - let alone the economic crisis that may follow..

I imagine that GW would be in a good spot though, with so much income coming from US sales and presumably no small amount from licensing.

Oh for sure. Looking at their financials, they are in a good position.
But, all companies move with the times unfortunately

Fictional wrote:


Paints last went up mid-2015, Base paints went from £2.40 to £2.55, Edge paints from £2.55 to £2.75, Shades went up in price but also pot size.

Well remembered.

In that case this price rise is almost exactly in line with inflation since the last price rise, so there is really nothing worthy of discussion on the paint prices.

Danny76 wrote:
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.
But the number of businesses projected to not make it through Brexit is considerably large.
Admittedly they are all going to be huge names. But there are always companies that you ‘never expected to go under’ in regular times - let alone the economic crisis that may follow..

Eh a lot of companies have been on the rocks before Brexit and the highstreet has been particularly bad over the last years. A combination of rising costs and dwindling customers whilst also competing with online businesses which have seen a rise in customers and operate with far lower costs for comparable size of market served.

The rates being set by London for shops doesn't help and many have closed doors because the rates were more than they took; the combination of tax and rent on many highstreet shops has been crippling. When you couple that to reduced footfall customers because many are now shopping online and you've got a system whereby to survive your highstreet shop finds it needs an internet store. Then one day they realise that they are taking more trade online tahn through the store that's costing them a small fortune to run.

Brexit might well cause a huge upheaval (although I'd argue part of it is artificially created by the lack of solid information and the apparent desire to keep many negotiations in a stalemate so that the period of uncertainty is prolonged), but I'd say its only highlighting issues that are already apparent and in trouble due to other pressures. It might cause many to close earlier, but barring a huge reversal and change of many policies, many of them might have closed up anyway - at least for highstreet shops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, and?

My point was a number of folks here seem to explain away or ignore anything bad GW does because they've "changed", and most of that change amounts to a social media presence.

A great video looking back on the year's miniatures does not undo the bull gak of an unnecessary price rise.

At the same time one has only two choices.

Accept the price rise and keep buying; or move on. There's little to rant or complain about that will achieve anything and GW are not alone in prices rising on products. It's like swimming against the tide. Also one could argue that the reduced hostile reaction (on forum communities) might well represent the fact that more people are happy with GW's general policies and attitude as of late and that many who are more hostile/negative have either moved on or given up. Ergo there are fewer bothering to complain - some having voted with their wallet and bought into other lines; and others who have seen no reaction to GW ever lowering prices and thus see no point in arguing and complaining when it won't change anything. Grin and bear it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So, I confess to not knowing much about other companies’ paint “blends”...but GW having pricier paints that come pre-set as shades, base paints, layers, edges, dries, washes, glazes...part of that upcost is having the paint styles ready made for everyone to pick up and use immediately without having to fish for that correct blend. Or pigment changes that allow for good coverage for difficult colors like red, yellow and orange. $0.25/pot increase won’t kill me. The SC cost increases suck though...gonna snag 2 Slaanesh SC boxes off eBay before the hike hits.

The market proposition for GW paints is really very different to the competitors. They are part of a whole approach including video tutorials (Peachy and Duncan), an app that will remind you of workable combos and store staff who can advise on colours and combinations. It is all extremely beginner-friendly for a hobby that could be a bit hard for beginners to get into at a decent level. Everything about their range - even the bottle design so despised in this thread - is designed to be beginner-friendly. A 2.70 pot of paint that comes with all that easily accessible support and guidance is far better value for money for a beginner than a 1.80 dropper bottle that does not. The pot prices are going up in line with inflation since they last went up, the proposition and market positioning of their paints is not changing at all.

The SC sets looks a little different as they are changing their pricing relative to the single kits. I think this is a shame but like any business they have to continually make decisions on how much they want their entry-point to be a loss leader as opposed to being a profit-maker in its own right. I think we all know that SC sets are not only purchased as an entry-point into the hobby, they are good value and so often also cannibalise sales of single kits which have higher profit margins. It is a shame but it is fairly clearly a move to protect their profit margins. The financial reports do not give enough detail to explain what is happening but the last set clearly showed that there was an issue with their margins going down even while sales were rising - and this has been reflected in something like a 15% hit to their share price since then.

I think the share price also took a hit because the bubble on their outstanding rise started to burst and GW themselves noted that they expected things to level off. So they likely saw a loss of value and investors who were in it for the fast gains and who have now likely moved onto other fast growing companies. Also lets not forget that, at least last time I checked, their share price is still way up for GW in general.

My guess is that the increase in price for SC boxes will allow for changing the content of the boxes themselves (both the Tyranid and the Necron SC have been changed recently).
This will allow GW to sell more kits that aren't doing so well right now by including them in the new SC boxes and to convince hobbyists to buy another SC box for the armies they already have, as the content will be different.

According to Garro on Facebook, the Necromunda Ambot is plastic.

 Overread wrote:
I think the share price also took a hit because the bubble on their outstanding rise started to burst and GW themselves noted that they expected things to level off. So they likely saw a loss of value and investors who were in it for the fast gains and who have now likely moved onto other fast growing companies. Also lets not forget that, at least last time I checked, their share price is still way up for GW in general.

Yes shares always do a bit of that. However there was a clear issue with their last financials in that their sales were still on the same upward trend but their profits were stalling. Given what we know about the business model - big upfront costs but low production costs for models - that should not happen. An increase in sales should see a larger increase in profits from the simple economics we see discussed on threads like this but clearly that has not been the case in 2018.

Given that their profits did not track their sales as expected the likely dividends similarly will not and the shares are then worth less. At one point the price had dipped into what I would consider an over-correction just as when they were heading for GBP40 I believed they were overvalued - even so the current price seems to factor in some problem with turning sales into profits. As a business GW would want to deal with any such problem and nip it in the bud. I would guess that the change in SC set pricing is part of that.

The paint prices are just a non-issue from a business point of view, they put them up infrequently but this increase looks to be in line with general inflation on that basis. On a personal point of view we would all like stuff that effectively gets cheaper over time with fixed prices that ignore inflation but that is not a business-like way of looking at things.