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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

Season 1 Arrow
Season 2 Arrow
Season 1 Flash
STOP

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

Arrow gets a bit wobbly around season 3 or 4, but somewhat gets its feet back under it later. Although the continual 'Oliver keeps a secret, everything goes wrong, rinse and repeat' cycle is a bit maddening after a while.
The Flash is variable, and suffers somewhat by really overusing evil speedsters as villains. I lost interest at the start of whichever season comes after Flashpoint...
Legends of Tomorrow is a lot of fun. Cheesy as hell, but deliberately so, and lots of fun little nods to other scifi franchises scattered throughout.
Can't say much about Supergirl - I've only seen the crossover episodes so far, but from what I've heard it's fairly good once it gets going.
Batwoman so far has been enjoyable. It doesn't seem as polished as the other shows have been, but for a first season it's solid enough to make me hang around to see where it goes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

Without snark... The first question is kind of complicated. Typically, I find that the Arrowverse format usually has 3 concurrent plotlines for each show. And typically I've found, 1 plotline is good, 1 is bad and the 3rd is debatable. - What typically happens is sometimes this 3rd plotline is really bad and you then get a 'bad' season, sometimes it's really good, and you get a 'good' season. So, it can kind of depend on your own personal tolerance and preferences. And I'd, personally say there's no actively bad shows, but there might be ones you don't like and aren't for you.

I think what I'm trying to do is post the watch order with my own personal opinions on it and what the plus and minuses are in general terms.

Arrow Season 1 (Overall very enjoyable, but is kind of Batman-with-arrows, which isn't necessarily a bad thing)
Arrow Season 2 (Arguably the BEST season, pulled down a little by the Laurel subplotline, but the rest of it is just so damn good)

Arrow Season 3 (Actually kind of good, but sort of falls off of a cliff towards the end when they start retreading a Batman plotline)
Flash Season 1 (Really good, great season)

Arrow Season 4 (Some very good parts in it, where individual episodes and plotlines are good, but the main plotline is real bad with a villain that doesn't fit the tone of the show at all)
Flash Season 2 (Overall pretty good, not as good at season 1, but good)
Supergirl Season 1 (Family friendly show, bit too heavy on relationship drama, kind of non-objectionable)
Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 (They don't really find their feet with this season, some good cast members, others not good. but, overall not very good but shows signs of potential.)

Arrow Season 5 (A return to form and well thought of as one of the better Arrow seasons)
Flash Season 3 (Speedster villain fatigue sets in (3rd one in a row), wasted potential of the opening setup. Overall a bad season with some good individual episodes)
Supergirl Season 2 (Really good opening, but again kind of leans too heavily into relationship drama for me, still not bad, but not outstanding either)
Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 (They find their feet and LoT is now the 'funny' show, they drop the less good castmembers (and sadly, 1 good one), I see it as the spiritual successor to Stargate SG-1, crossed with Doctor Who)


Arrow Season 6 (A relatively poor season with two villains, neither of which are very compelling.)
Flash Season 4 (A non-speedster villain and... He kinda sucks.)
Supergirl Season 3 (Still kinda relationship-ey... To be honest, I've forgotten most of this season)
Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 (It goes from strength to strength, the villain from Arrow season 4 is the main villain and he fits in perfectly. The season finale is just perfect.)


Arrow Season 7 (A really slow start but significantly improves at episode 5. Overall a strong season. And there's 'flash forwards' starring Kat McNamara)
Flash Season 5 (In my view, BEST season since season 1, which an incredibly enjoyable new cast member.)
Supergirl Season 4 (There's a good new character, Nia Nal, but overall I don't rate the vast majority of this season at all. - It's basically like the writers wanted to write for The X-Men rather than Supergirl, and did it badly. BUT. BUT The last 5 or so episodes of this season, when they introduce a different villain is frikking awesome)
Legends of Tomorrow Season 4 (Constantine is a main cast member... Show kind of goes too wacky for my personal preference in the second half of the season. It's a bit like, further, further, further, NO TOO FAR, TOO FAR)

Arrow Season 8 (Good so far, is basically a season dedicated to wrapping up old plotlines since it's the final season)
Flash Season 6 (Good so far, is mostly preparing for Crisis on Infinite Earths)
Batwoman Season 1 (I caught some episodes on holiday. It's ok, it's not as bad as I was worried it would be, but doesn't quite live up to its potential from the source comics. Kind of gives real Arrow Season 1 vibes)
Supergirl Season 5 (Lots of Martian Manhunter things, I'm kind of liking it)
Legends of Tomorrow Season 5 (Not Aired Yet)


I haven't mentioned Black Lightning, because they're very much their own thing and have a completely different feel to them entirely. However, the two seasons I've seen are very, very good.

Season 1 of Black Lightning was ok. Season 2 was dull.

Although it will be vaguely interesting to see if it stays separate after Crisis brings it in with everything else. Tonally, it's very different to the Arrowverse shows, though.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

Arrow gets a bit wobbly around season 3 or 4, but somewhat gets its feet back under it later. Although the continual 'Oliver keeps a secret, everything goes wrong, rinse and repeat' cycle is a bit maddening after a while.
The Flash is variable, and suffers somewhat by really overusing evil speedsters as villains. I lost interest at the start of whichever season comes after Flashpoint...

I’m the faster man alive. Except for that guy. And that guy. And that guy. Also that girl. Flash is like the Slowest speedster in the show.

Also they intermittently forget they’re heroes and murder their villains.

I'm fine with it as long as it's not Barry killing people (or Kid Flash or XS, or Jesse. I'd need to be really convinced of Cisco)
I mean, one character is literally called Killer Frost.

Iris being willing to kill people is a comic thing

Barry has killed several criminals himself as well.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

Season 1 Arrow
Season 2 Arrow
Season 1 Flash
STOP

that's about right, Legends has a few fun episodes (and Sara), although Arrow 3 (?) is sort of funny as for all the pish and wind about Bat Lass stealing Bruce's toys Olly stole his plots, heck they even Oracled Felicity for a bit

Up to episode three or four of Arrow.

It's enjoyable enough - but surely that can't be Deadshot, the man famed for never missing who in said episode only hits one person, and fires quite a few times, before copping an arrow in the eye?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Up to episode three or four of Arrow.

It's enjoyable enough - but surely that can't be Deadshot, the man famed for never missing who in said episode only hits one person, and fires quite a few times, before copping an arrow in the eye?

but on the upside he does call Olly out for also being a murderous donk too

Deadshot never missing is an old trope that never really holds up in the context of a story he actually takes part in. The show actually leans into that more later on, but it doesn't really improve the character.

And she's gone!

That's an interesting development.

On the one hand, I really, really hate characters being recast.

On the other hand, if ever there was a setting that had established myriad different options for recasting a character, the Arrowverse is it...

The continuity nut in me hates this, but at the same time I never much cared for her in the role and the fact that it was so clearly not her doing any of the stunts kinda took me out of it (were were spoiled with Stephen Amell, and are still spoiled with Caity Lotz).

I do hope next season has more of a focus on the Batwoman side of things, rather than Kate & Friends.

Here's hoping she takes the theme music with her...

 insaniak wrote:
Here's hoping she takes the theme music with her...

I figure eventually they'll finish the main theme and replace the heavy synth temp track with real music.

I am sad because the show might actually improve, thus reducing the hilarity of the reaction videos.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I am sad because the show might actually improve, thus reducing the hilarity of the reaction videos.

Naah they'll find something else to get faux pished about , but i liked Picard so im clearly not their demographic

Do we need to start a separate thread for Stargirl or can all the CW super shows go in this thread since it was being used for general Arrowverse discussion earlier?

Wait Stargirl?
The character from the second season of Legends of Tommorow?
They are making a show for her?

As for batwomen, I have yet to see it so i wont comment on quality, but how will they get around her recasting? Unless you have her stunt actor fight, she gets beaten to a pulp then get consctrutive surgery?
Or will they go the Fresh Prince route and never acknowledge it.

The OP really should update the title of this thread!

If only he were someone that was around enough...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wait Stargirl?
The character from the second season of Legends of Tommorow?
They are making a show for her?

Yes and no... The Stargirl on Legends of Tomorrow was the old Earth-1 Stargirl from the 1950's.

This Stargirl the tv show is about is a modern day Stargirl that's a modern day teenager from the new Earth-2.

Man, I hope they dont add her to the line up for Crossovers.......
ITs gonna be more to be confused about.....

Honestly if you find any of the Arrowverse shows confusing you should perhaps consider another pastime. Colouring in perhaps?

But there's no Oliver anymore, and Supes has already featured, so the net number of characters available for crossovers is a net neutral. Perhaps even negative if all the Arrow gang don't get equivalent replacements on Team Stargirl.

As for Ruby Rose leaving? Good. Don't rate her in the slightest, and it's starting to look like all Ruby Rose can do is roles that are essentially Ruby Rose.

I'll have no issue with the recasting as long as it's an improvement, and the jokes in the crossover will likely be worth a lol.

I mean more along the line of its going to be more to keep kept up on.

Part of me still thinks, despite her limited acting, she twigged early she had signed to a bad show so gave zero flumps about even trying aka The Portman prequel efffect

and they can just sub in Alex Danvars how has already mastered jamming `i like girls`into any discussion

Was it really a bad show? From what i saw it looked good.
I mean, nothing can beat the badness of Nora Allen

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean more along the line of its going to be more to keep kept up on.

Same difference, no Arrow anymore. Although allegedly there's a Lois and Clark style show in the works, I'd not be surprised to see The Flash wrapping up as that one premieres.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean more along the line of its going to be more to keep kept up on.

I gave up on the Flash some time ago, and am still catching up on Legends, but haven't found the crossovers too difficult to follow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Was it really a bad show? From what i saw it looked good.

It was pretty standard Arrowverse fare. Let down mostly by the villain not being particularly interesting, and the 'twists' not being particularly surprising. And that godawful synth theme music.

Most of the Arrowverse shows weren't amazing for their first season, though.

Hmm, interesting, im waiting for all seasons to be on netflix again to binge them TBH