Switch Theme:

My take on the direction GW is taking ...  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




I honestly do not quite understand what all the fuzz is about when it comes to primaris. Now this is just my opinion, but to me the most logical explanation for their inception was that GW wanted to rescale the space marine line, but they didn't just want to upgrade everything from the old marine line. Instead they wanted to create something new and shiny for new players to pick up.

Now whether the release of a new kind of better, stronger space marine is a good thing is a matter of personal opinion, but how they were presented in the lore is not a matter of opinion, because we can obviously read up on how said lore was presented by GW in their codices and black library books.
They are a giant deus ex machina for the imperum of man: the new shiny, bigger, better marines that cawl has been working on for the past millennia and that appeared seemingly out of nowhere when the imperium needed them most.
Now it's obviously perfectly fine if someone loves the primaris, loves their models and their fluff, but I think any self reflecting person would have to agree that they have objectively been somewhat shoehorned in into the lore of 40k.

The main thing that irks some people in my opinion though is that the old chapters all had a very ancient backstory, with traditions and characters linked to that (often) rich backstory and I think for some people the primaris were not recieved as an addition to this chapter historia or a completely new thing in their own right, but rather a slow but definitive replacement....I think that is where some of the core issue lies.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






The fluff is bad, the models are great. Use the models, ignore the fluff. The end.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

 Crimson wrote:
The fluff is bad, the models are great. Use the models, ignore the fluff. The end.


Yup. That's the plan. Just waiting for GW to release enough Primaris models that I like the looks of.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




In a perfect world I think they should have updated the old marine range slowly but steadily while ceeping size creep going with those old models until they reached reasonable proportions and in addition release the primaris as their own thing completely. Akin to the officio assassinorum (with bigger model range though) where they could have been used as very specialized allied forces, that would make them unique in purpose and lore. Because if those newer, better space marines were fewer in number, they also would not come off as a replacement.

Edit: but as someone from GW basically said: we basement dwelling nerds should best keep our mouths shut and buy whatever GW releases, no matter the price and if its in concordance with decades old established lore

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 00:12:25


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.


right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.

right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side


Yeah, sure!




Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Karol wrote:
BrianDavion 779789 10560296 wrote:
if your entire issue with devestation of Baal is "OMHG! THEY REPLACE BLOOD ANGELS WITH PRIAMRIS" then yeah.. you're not going to have a good time with any post GS marine books. seriously if you judge a book bad because it has primaris marines you're basicly a lost cause

No not really, I don't understand why they didn't kill off all the BA. Then it would at least make sense to replace them. The way the book ends and how easy the tyranids are beaten by the primaris, makes the whole fight that happen before make no sense at all. It is as if you tried to dig a ditch for 2 days, did 2 meters, and your step brother comes with an excavator does the whole 40m in 30 min. Makes whole your work pointless. Same with devastation of baal. Now if primaris came in to baal, because to make neew primaris you would need parts of the old BA. And they came too late or when there was not much of any genetic material to harvest. The it would at least have been tragic. A big opportunity lost. But we get a deus ex machina ending where khorn demon and gulliman wipe out a tyranid fleet, in like last few pages of the book.

Am readin what I think is a SoS or SoB book right now, called Faith and Fire, seems to be a lot better then the spears and baal book. Stuff in it makes more sense.



I think you misunderstoof the book then tyranids where effectively defeated by time Gulliman arrived. all that was left was mop up work.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.

Personally, almost all my complaints would go away if they'd made Primaris equipment upgrades given to Chapters and the new models just being explained as a chance to make a more appropriate size.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.


right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side


I welcome any literature you can find that explicitly supports your statement. Last reference I heard had Custodes going around and enforcing the adoption of Primaris at gunpoint.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.


right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side


I welcome any literature you can find that explicitly supports your statement. Last reference I heard had Custodes going around and enforcing the adoption of Primaris at gunpoint.


"84. Most Chapters now have the means and technology to create Primaris Space Marines of their own (drawn from their usual recruitment worlds), though many still choose to create standard Space Marines as well for their more flexible and readily available equipment and combat doctrines."

-from 500 facts about warhammer
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/19/20th-oct-500-facts-for-500-stores/

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Yellin' Yoof





Any decision of this nature should be taken under a "needs of the business" cynicism, in which nothing is permanent and anything else is to appease and placate.

Frankly, I think we just can't truly know.

I hate children and parents. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.


right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side


I welcome any literature you can find that explicitly supports your statement. Last reference I heard had Custodes going around and enforcing the adoption of Primaris at gunpoint.


"84. Most Chapters now have the means and technology to create Primaris Space Marines of their own (drawn from their usual recruitment worlds), though many still choose to create standard Space Marines as well for their more flexible and readily available equipment and combat doctrines."

-from 500 facts about warhammer
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/19/20th-oct-500-facts-for-500-stores/


That's good. . . Although it's not really a printed publication. I'd like more.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard




Nottingham

 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^agree. If they werent billed as replacements, I'd have much less dislike for them.


right now GW is billing them as REINFORCEMENTS. Maybe in the future they'll be replacements but right now the evidance suggests they're going to operate side by side


I welcome any literature you can find that explicitly supports your statement. Last reference I heard had Custodes going around and enforcing the adoption of Primaris at gunpoint.
When I read Knights of Macragge, I very much got the impression of reinforcement, not replacement.

Yes, characters on both sides (First-Born and Primaris) actually say how they feel that the Primaris are superior, but then we also have characters who look past the whole "them and us", and focus on getting the job done.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
Rippy wrote:Never forgetti, template spaghetti.
DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
The fluff is bad, the models are great. Use the models, ignore the fluff. The end.


For many players, myself included that doesn't work. If I don't like the fluff on something then I will never buy or field said unit. The background is the main thing that drew me to 40k, followed by the models, with rules being a distant third.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
The fluff is bad, the models are great. Use the models, ignore the fluff. The end.


For many players, myself included that doesn't work. If I don't like the fluff on something then I will never buy or field said unit. The background is the main thing that drew me to 40k, followed by the models, with rules being a distant third.


my order is a bit different but rules are not even on the list.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





pretty much, right now it seems that GW is content to double dip. this could change if old space marine molds start to wear out. but the tac assault and devestator squads are pretty new. the biggest worry are the rhino chassi vehicles which are apparently pretty damn old, but a lot of those will inevitably be updated for sisters and CSMs. IMHO the old marine kits in the greatest danger of dissappering are the whirlwind and other rhino chassis units unique to loyalist marines.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Guardsmen should cost what now?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Khornate25 wrote:
Okay, since the pro-primaris are kinda spiteful and childhish (ironic since they are the ones calling other people immature and lost causes), I think this thread needs to stop. Visibly this subject is too sensitive for some people around here.


Yes, you can't dislike primaris they are factually the best things ever. Disagree ? We don't tolerate that kind of bad fun think here. Go read some primaris books and sound off how you love them.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Khornate25 wrote:
Okay, since the pro-primaris are kinda spiteful and childhish (ironic since they are the ones calling other people immature and lost causes), I think this thread needs to stop. Visibly this subject is too sensitive for some people around here.


Yes, you can't dislike primaris they are factually the best things ever. Disagree ? We don't tolerate that kind of bad fun think here. Go read some primaris books and sound off how you love them.


it's not Primaris fans declarting their OPINIONS as "Fact"

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Actually, it is, quite often that happening. Saying any dislike for them is factually wrong bad think. I've literally said how I like the models, hate the fluff and really don't care for them overall. The pro side is so hyperbolic though it's like they can't handle if someone says they don't like them.

I'm just concerned, it seems we've reached a point where someone having a contrary opinion is just not acceptable anymore and deemed categorically negative/toxic. If that doesn't concern someone, maybe it should. I also know this isn't a new thing but its gotten pretty large as of late.

I never once said primaris lovers are bad, but I've seen countless bashes on those who dislike them. Comments as to how it somehow takes away someone elses fun when they even have to read how someone dislikes something they like. That, is a problem.

Fact is, if anyone can't handle people may dislike something you love, and make that opinion known at least as often as it's put out there, maybe online discussions should be avoided.

As if I got sad, mad, downed every time someone disagreed with me things would be quite bad, I might even tear up.

Oh and lets not forget the classic, don't love primaris you should leave the hobby,or don't like everything GW better get out. As well as arguments about if you like old marines you are just dumb and you can't as they are awful.

That's all pretty over the top. When someone is claiming there is no reason to hate them but every reason to love them I begin to think one side is a bit wild in their claims.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion 779789 10561114 wrote:

I think you misunderstoof the book then tyranids where effectively defeated by time Gulliman arrived. all that was left was mop up work.

they were down to a few hundrad marines, fighting in once places, everything over run. From what I understand tyranids would have eaten the planet, spawned more troops and ate the rest of BAs. the moon base was already taken out. Now all moon tyranids got wiped out by khorn demons, which were suppose to be the biggest BA enemies, which makes even less sense for themt o help. And the whole fleet and planet embarked ground troops were wiped out by the ultramarines. In fact I think, that it would have been better, if all the BA and succesors were wiped out, then the ultramarines came in, and recreated the BA chapters, and the new BAs would have to deal with a legacy they were not part of. It would both give a good send off to BA marine, and characters, something thermopile style. Open space for Primaris Characters and stories. It is as if the story was driven by GW wanting to sell resing Dantes and having normal marines still in sale.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





I've never been anything but polite about expressing my distate for Primaris, and I will say that I've been met with literally nothing but hostility and in some cases open toxicity in return. It definitely feels like one side of this discussion in particular is not really capable of politely sharing their perspective and feedback without, well, I can only describe it as exploding an extremely unpleasant attitude across all topics relevant to it.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I've never been anything but polite about expressing my distate for Primaris, and I will say that I've been met with literally nothing but hostility and in some cases open toxicity in return. It definitely feels like one side of this discussion in particular is not really capable of politely sharing their perspective and feedback without, well, I can only describe it as exploding an extremely unpleasant attitude across all topics relevant to it.


you might be but plenty of others aren't. it gets tiresome hearing gak like "PRIMARIS ARE FACTUALLY BAD" and "I've not read ANYTHING about the Primaris because I dislike them, but I know they're poorly written" it's one thing to have a discussion, it's another thing to have to deal with a massive number of ill informed posts from people whom have clearly already made up their mind before we got any info. It's not partiuclarly pleasent to deal with the 40k equivilant of that guy who gets all his info from fakes news websites and spews his horriably incorrect "facts" to anyone who'll listen.


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

they were down to a few hundrad marines, fighting in once places, everything over run. From what I understand tyranids would have eaten the planet, spawned more troops and ate the rest of BAs. the moon base was already taken out. Now all moon tyranids got wiped out by khorn demons, which were suppose to be the biggest BA enemies, which makes even less sense for themt o help.


Its was gak fluff thats all. I learned to simply gloss over it.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Anyone claiming their opinion as factual, regardless which way they lean, is obviously not being honest. But I've seen a bit of that one from both sides ill admit.
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Surely you all recognise that GW is a model company first and foremost. The lore is in service to the models, not the other way around.

The classic range was truly and utterly completed and in many ways bloated. The lore that was established was also incredibly constrictive - new things can't be made, they have to be "ret-conned" into the story. It's what happened with Centurions, Stalkers, Storm-Talons and was incredibly unsatisfying and divisive.

Either something monumental happens (the return of a Primarch who enforces change on a galactic scale) or GW can't implement change. Classic Marines were also held hostage by 20+ years of design philosophy dating back to Rogue Trader, and when the game was more similar to kill team.
So, they need a lore shake up, a significant rule shake up and an army wide unit re-design.

Enter the Primaris. New and exciting kits can be released without messing with past lore, the army is designed in a more modern way with dedicated and focused units, and they look better sized and proportioned because they aren't designed with a 20yr old, established model line in mind. The lore which was very cool in the past was literally a stone wall blocking new technologies (and thus kits) from being introduced.

So yes, things have changed but Astartes are the same in spirit. Primaris are still children transformed into drug-fuelled killing machines built for defending a fascistic, dystopian hell of an Empire.

You've all now had over TWO YEARS to get used to them. Either get on board or for the love of all thing stop whinging. Primaris are a massive success. GW profits are through the roof. I myself own a 4k fully painted Primaris army. Bringing up how you dislike them over and over and over again isn't going to change anything. People have voted with their money, and the results are in favour of Primaris.
Get on board or hold your peace. No need to whinge for years - just let the model company release more cool models and if you don't like Primaris collect a different army.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/05 09:51:48


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 Ishagu wrote:
Surely you all recognise that GW is a model company first and foremost. The lore is in service to the models, not the other way around.

That does not mean it cannot be critiqued. We can understand the reason something was made, and still find it poor at the same time.

 Ishagu wrote:

The classic range was truly and utterly completed and in many ways bloated. The lore that was established was also incredibly constrictive - new things can't be made, they have to be "ret-conned" into the story. It's what happened with Centurions, Stalkers, Storm-Talons and was incredibly unsatisfying and divisive.

The classic range remains unchanged, and primaris only add to any sort of "bloat" in the SM dex, not lessen it.



 Ishagu wrote:
You've all now had over TWO YEARS to get used to them. Either get on board or for the love of all thing stop whinging. Primaris are a massive success. GW profits are through the roof. I myself own a 4k fully painted Primaris army. Bringing up how you dislike them over and over and over again isn't going to change anything. People have voted with their money, and the results are in favour of Primaris.
Get on board or hold your peace. No need to whinge for years - just let the model company release more cool models and if you don't like Primaris collect a different army.

Welp, there's that needless hostility again.

In all the other topics around release were "give them a chance, they've only just gotten started, its a difference you're not used to yet, this is just the first models of the range they will obviously get cooler in time, etc etc". Well OP did just that. Was quiet on it and waited to see if how it settled with him. 2 years onwards he is articulating how he feels about it, and now you're telling him he missed his opportunity.


Maybe you're the one who should stop clicking on these threads if they give you such a strong, negative emotional reaction. That would seem like the smart action to take. People are allowed to express their feedback whether or not you agree with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 10:01:28


 
   
Made in gb
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard




Nottingham

AngryAngel80 wrote:Actually, it is, quite often that happening. Saying any dislike for them is factually wrong bad think. I've literally said how I like the models, hate the fluff and really don't care for them overall. The pro side is so hyperbolic though it's like they can't handle if someone says they don't like them.
Assuming that everyone on one side is out to get you and are all this singular hive mind isn't exactly a great take either.

I've made it very clear on my personal thoughts and expression - it's fine to dislike Primaris. It's not fine to attempt to justify it on flimsy reasoning. In many cases, I would genuinely prefer people to just say "yeah, I don't like them", instead of grasping for "facts" that are full of holes. And this works the other way around: people claiming that Primaris are "objectively better" because they're better proportioned* and have non-squatting poses is a bad take - even if that were factually correct that they are better proportioned, that doesn't mean they must be better models.

*Better, not perfectly. The closest I think I've seen any Space Marine model come to perfect proportion is that preview of the Bandai articulated Marine, which isn't exactly the same kind of model.

I'm just concerned, it seems we've reached a point where someone having a contrary opinion is just not acceptable anymore and deemed categorically negative/toxic. If that doesn't concern someone, maybe it should. I also know this isn't a new thing but its gotten pretty large as of late.
Perhaps, but that's not just in this. Nearly all discourse has.
And again, not all people on both sides are acting like this. It's not the contrary opinion that's the problem, it's the leaps in logic to defend those opinions, which frankly don't need to be defended. It's all subjective.

I never once said primaris lovers are bad, but I've seen countless bashes on those who dislike them. Comments as to how it somehow takes away someone elses fun when they even have to read how someone dislikes something they like. That, is a problem.
And in the same vein, the amount of comments I've seen about people being "GW shills" and the near constant barrage of anti-Primaris threads isn't a problem too?

Fact is, if anyone can't handle people may dislike something you love, and make that opinion known at least as often as it's put out there, maybe online discussions should be avoided.
In that same respect, if people voicing their opinions on why they dislike Primaris use faulty reasoning to support it, is it not appropriate to call out and correct their misuse of facts? You can't cry "let people express their feelings!" and simultaneously say "hey, stop expressing your opinion and feelings about this!" - I'd personally be more than happy if people stopped making so many anti-Primaris threads, because then there'd be no need for people to voice their counter-opinions.

Oh and lets not forget the classic, don't love primaris you should leave the hobby,or don't like everything GW better get out. As well as arguments about if you like old marines you are just dumb and you can't as they are awful.

That's all pretty over the top. When someone is claiming there is no reason to hate them but every reason to love them I begin to think one side is a bit wild in their claims.
Yes, those arguments are pretty poor, in my eyes. I don't support them. But you can't deny that there's also people out there who will jump to claim things like "Primaris are objectively bad" or "if you like Primaris, you're just a kid who doesn't respect the old lore" or similarly ridiculous things.

As I'm sure I've made it clear, I don't support those kinds of arguments on either side of the debate, but you can't really deny that both sides *are* doing it, and in my experience, it's more often the people who are anti-Primaris who are the ones who feel the need to try and justify their dislike, even if they're making up facts.
Of course, not to belabour the point, but it's not all of them, nor is it exclusive to just the anti-Primaris folk.

Karol wrote:they were down to a few hundrad marines, fighting in once places, everything over run. From what I understand tyranids would have eaten the planet, spawned more troops and ate the rest of BAs. the moon base was already taken out. Now all moon tyranids got wiped out by khorn demons, which were suppose to be the biggest BA enemies, which makes even less sense for themt o help.
Khorne saw a chance for slaughter, and took it. However, Khorne's daemons wiping out the Tyranids is supposed to be a mystery. Trying to pin smart tactical and strategic decision on a Chaos god isn't really 40k's thing - they're capricious, practically uncaring of realspace save for gaining more followers. In this case, we can guess that perhaps Khorne wants to keep the BA alive so he might corrupt them later down the line.
And the whole fleet and planet embarked ground troops were wiped out by the ultramarines.
I believed that there were still not that many Tyranids left - certainly not the majority that Khorne wiped out.
In fact I think, that it would have been better, if all the BA and succesors were wiped out, then the ultramarines came in, and recreated the BA chapters, and the new BAs would have to deal with a legacy they were not part of. It would both give a good send off to BA marine, and characters, something thermopile style.
The problem is that you're killing off one of the Big Four, and removing them completely from having old Marines. Say what you will about Primaris, but GW ensuring that Primaris don't make up the whole of every old Chapter and even having wiggle room for why an army might have none is a good move - it doesn't invalidate anyone's armies. If you have an old Blood Angels mini-marine army, and they get wiped out and all replaced by Primaris - well, that's not exactly a good message, is it? It would be annoying to anyone who had an army made up of a more obscure Chapter, but when it's one of the First Founders with their own Codex? Yikes.

You make the point of "it's a cool narrative idea for the Primaris to pick up the pieces of the Blood Angels legacy and feel they're not part of it" - you're right, it would be a cool narrative idea. That's why, in Redeemer, by Guy Haley, this literally happens. Astorath is talking to some Primaris Marines about having to have killed one of their old marine squad members and their communion with Sanguinius, when a Primaris Marine pretty much asks flat out "hey, we don't get to see Sanguinius' death visions - do we even count as Blood Angels?", to which Astorath says that he sees the Primaris just as much as he would see any other Blood Angels as a son of Sanguinius, even if Cawl claims they won't suffer the Rage (and, funnily enough, he feels that perhaps Cawl may be wrong about them not being at risk of it).

Nitro Zeus wrote:I've never been anything but polite about expressing my distate for Primaris, and I will say that I've been met with literally nothing but hostility and in some cases open toxicity in return. It definitely feels like one side of this discussion in particular is not really capable of politely sharing their perspective and feedback without, well, I can only describe it as exploding an extremely unpleasant attitude across all topics relevant to it.
In my experience, it's nearly always been the other way around. But I understand that we would both have our perceptions biased in this respect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Anyone claiming their opinion as factual, regardless which way they lean, is obviously not being honest. But I've seen a bit of that one from both sides ill admit.
Exactly. I've not got an issue with someone saying "I don't like Primaris". I do have a problem if they start pulling reasons for it from a less than honest argument.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 10:03:59


Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
Rippy wrote:Never forgetti, template spaghetti.
DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ishagu wrote:
Surely you all recognise that GW is a model company first and foremost. The lore is in service to the models, not the other way around.

The classic range was truly and utterly completed and in many ways bloated. The lore that was established was also incredibly constrictive - new things can't be made, they have to be "ret-conned" into the story. It's what happened with Centurions, Stalkers, Storm-Talons and was incredibly unsatisfying and divisive.

Either something monumental happens (the return of a Primarch who enforces change on a galactic scale) or GW can't implement change. Classic Marines were also held hostage by 20+ years of design philosophy dating back to Rogue Trader, and when the game was more similar to kill team.
So, they need a lore shake up, a significant rule shake up and an army wide unit re-design.

Enter the Primaris. New and exciting kits can be released without messing with past lore, the army is designed in a more modern way with dedicated and focused units, and they look better sized and proportioned because they aren't designed with a 20yr old, established model line in mind. The lore which was very cool in the past was literally a stone wall blocking new technologies (and thus kits) from being introduced.

So yes, things have changed but Astartes are the same in spirit. Primaris are still children transformed into drug-fuelled killing machines built for defending a fascistic, dystopian hell of an Empire.

You've all now had over TWO YEARS to get used to them. Either get on board or for the love of all thing stop whinging. Primaris are a massive success. GW profits are through the roof. I myself own a 4k fully painted Primaris army. Bringing up how you dislike them over and over and over again isn't going to change anything. People have voted with their money, and the results are in favour of Primaris.
Get on board or hold your peace. No need to whinge for years - just let the model company release more cool models and if you don't like Primaris collect a different army.


Excuse me, but what kind of nonsense is this? We all know GW introduced primaris to sell more stuff and that they are not going anywhere, but that does not change how they were introduced and implemented. And telling people to just get used to Primaris and not voice complaint because many people do like them and they are not going anywhere is the most condescending thing I've read in some time. I mean the hell do you think you are telling people they should not voice complaint or criticism.
Also like I've said in my posts before, many people who are not as on board with primaris as you are, happen to have this opinion not because of the models themselves, but because of the lore. Like I've said before they come off as replacements for chapters with very long standing lore that many people care a great deal about. Which brings me to my third point: you said that the lore is in service to the models and their sales, which is true I believe, but that doesn't mean that the quality of said lore does not matter. If new releases seem shoehorned in into the lore, people will find it harder to suspend their disbelief and actually get into those new releases. AoS is the prime example for this (don't get me wrong, the introduction of Primaris was not NEARLY as bad as AoS in terms of lore, not even close).
So yes GWs primary goal is to sell new exciting models, but that does not mean there should not be at least some quality lore to go along with new releases.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: