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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I've been looking through the codex to try and find any nifty wombo-combos, but I haven't really found anything super game-breakingly good. One thing I do want to try sometime would be a max squad of Bloody Rose Repentia with an Imagifier, Repentia Superior, and Preacher nearby. On the charge they get 4 attacks apiece, hitting on a 4+ rerollable, at S8 AP-4 D2, with all of those buffs. Only problem is delivery, as a max squad of 9 models can only have one character in a Rhino with them and they really want to have all 3 characters. You could probably live without the Superior, but the Preacher and Imagifier are must haves to make the attack viable. On average dice this kills a Knight in one round of combat! The real trick is getting the Repentia into melee in one piece, as they aren't terribly resilient. I guess charging through ruins is a must for this tactic.

If you use the bloody rose stratagem, each repentia will do 2.7(ish) wounds to the knight or 5.4 if you use the fight twice stratagem at the end of the phase to finish the job if necessary.
If that canoness joins in the fun with the casket of penance, that goes up to 5 wounds (10 if fighting twice) PER REPENTIA as they butcher the thing needing 2's to wound

also:
A valorous heart canoness with the iron surplice of saint istaela takes less than 3 wounds from a full round of knight stomping

@lamia and waaaaagh, I see what you mean now, my bad. Still getting a grip on this codex. Not quite as useful of a warlord trait I see. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think I'm going to go with Valorous heart as my order. The durability their main trait offers combined with the strat allowing a unit to ignore hit modifiers is very good. It plays into an army style I like of mass infantry, and offers solid durability as well as some offense. The relic gives some interesting utility with proper play but isn't anything crazy, but might help sisters wound all the marines out there on 4's at least. Combo'd with the imagifier ability you could potentially wound marines on 3's. Warlord trait is kind of useless unfortunately. Overall though it's a solid package and is one that is "always on" for lack of a better term. I understand defensive traits aren't always the best in 40k, but I do feel you could build an extremely difficult to kill infantry horde with Valorous Heart, perhaps the toughest to shift in the game as far as infantry goes. With everyone, including marines, kitting out to kill marines, just outright ignoring most AP weapons is pretty good.

Need to get some games though to see how it goes. I hate that the box comes with only ten sisters, I really need like 30 to test the theory at small level games. Not to mention not a single melta, this starter set sets you off on a rough foot when it comes to fighting vehicles at anything but melee range. Here's hoping the full kits drop soon.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
@lamia and waaaaagh, I see what you mean now, my bad. Still getting a grip on this codex. Not quite as useful of a warlord trait I see. Thanks for pointing that out.

It's still a pretty darned useful Warlord Trait, though. Warlord Traits can be bought for 1cp, so their value is weighted against whether the benefit outweighs or is outweighed by 1cp. In the case of this trait, worst case scenario you get your 1cp back and also get an automatic 6, which can be invaluable. Best case scenario, you also get an extra two CPs.
It's not good enough to take a detachment by itself just to get the warlord trait, but it's still quite potent.

Audustum wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
That is also how I read it.

This is gonna need to be FAQ'd because people are debating that all over I think. I personally read it as saying you could use a Miracle Die for each one because they're all part of the same shooting attack in the same phase.

The rules actually do one die at a time though, So. Unless two dice are cast together...,

While I was disappointed to see bloody rose lose the extra strength on the charge, that extra ap is quite nice and actually helps out Celestians of all things.
Given the presence of a priest and a +1S imagifier and a Cannoness, those girls are throwing out 4 s4 ap-1 attacks each rerolling hits and able to reroll wounds. If you go Passion (which if bloody rose you are) you get extra hits on 6s to hit.
That's surprisingly nice. I could see myself putting in a squad as chaff clearer.

Repentia get nasty too with passion and double fight.

Now I've just gotta decide whether to give my Cannoness in this situation a blessed blade for min 6 s6 ap-4 Dd3 attacks or the chainsword relic for min 9 s5 ap-3 D2 attacks.

Do Celestians have a use now or are they still awful?

They're better. But not necessarily by enough.

Their bodyguard is the Post Acolyte disappoint, but they make a -super- Chapter Master out of their Canoness and can get an Lt. Effect for 2CP

pm713 wrote:
Do Celestians have a use now or are they still awful?

They actually do.

Only 1 point premium over a sister. Mainly You get:

Better weapon options (can do 3 meltas essentially or two and one multimelta)
Bodyguard feature
Most important: twin-linked weapons!!! (When near Canoness). That... is boss.
Extra attack.

All for 1 point. Seems legit.

Not as important: stratagem to re-roll wounds and hits for 2 cp. They already reroll hits w canoness so...)

Actually, it's a plain reroll fot Wounding too... (with the CP)

 Jancoran wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Do Celestians have a use now or are they still awful?

They actually do.

Only 1 point premium over a sister. Mainly You get:

Better weapon options (can do 3 meltas essentially or two and one multimelta)
Bodyguard feature
Most important: twin-linked weapons!!! (When near Canoness). That... is boss.
Extra attack.

All for 1 point. Seems legit.

Not as important: stratagem to re-roll wounds and hits for 2 cp. They already reroll hits w canoness so...)

Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

pm713 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Do Celestians have a use now or are they still awful?

They actually do.

Only 1 point premium over a sister. Mainly You get:

Better weapon options (can do 3 meltas essentially or two and one multimelta)
Bodyguard feature
Most important: twin-linked weapons!!! (When near Canoness). That... is boss.
Extra attack.

All for 1 point. Seems legit.

Not as important: stratagem to re-roll wounds and hits for 2 cp. They already reroll hits w canoness so...)

Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

Triumph can't be bodyguarded. But the still fill a spare Elite slot better than a Preacher

I've been patiently waiting for Battlescribe to update so I can play around with some builds. I've been curious on what I could potentially do with Valorous Heart, Argent Shroud, and Bloody Rose.

I know it would be tough to fit all three together, but I am curious how it could be done. What do you guys think?

pm713 wrote:
Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

Eliminators say "hi"

Some good snipers around. Just a few Celestians can make a difference for very little points cost. Also... twin linked is awesome.

tneva82 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

Eliminators say "hi"

which raises a point here.. space Marines are powerful no doubt there, they're the reigning kings of the meta. with -1 AP bolt guns and -2 AP bolt rifles (when in tactical doctrine) eliminators that can make short work of HQs with the right dice rolls, is it just me or do sisters seem like they have some answers to some of the new marine tricks?

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

Eliminators say "hi"

which raises a point here.. space Marines are powerful no doubt there, they're the reigning kings of the meta. with -1 AP bolt guns and -2 AP bolt rifles (when in tactical doctrine) eliminators that can make short work of HQs with the right dice rolls, is it just me or do sisters seem like they have some answers to some of the new marine tricks?

Well certainly ignoring -2 so prevalent in marines is nice Which does btw help with eliminators(phew) though mortals still out there. But since sisters benefit a lot from their characters losing them hurts so some bodyguards could be good. too bad sisters have the inferior bodyguard rule compared to tau drones.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

Eliminators say "hi"

which raises a point here.. space Marines are powerful no doubt there, they're the reigning kings of the meta. with -1 AP bolt guns and -2 AP bolt rifles (when in tactical doctrine) eliminators that can make short work of HQs with the right dice rolls, is it just me or do sisters seem like they have some answers to some of the new marine tricks?

Sisters are the perfect answer to marines to be honest. Resistant to their firepower and we have a ton of cheap, basically throw away anti-tank options that we can miracle dice to always go our way. Also Exorcists are disgustingly efficient at removing just about anything they look at.

I'm leaning towards Ebon Chalice myself. I feel like having a fistful of 6s on command helps in a huge amount of situations. That Lascannon is bouncing off my Exorcist. That CHE is taking a missile to the face regardless of the -3.

Their Conviction means you can fully lean into generation of MD without worrying about duff rolls. I'm not 100% on the wording, but I think you could even use a MD generated by a Cherub as discard fodder for a different unit (they don't get discarded until the end of the phase)

Celestians have a nice little synergy, too, as the Conviction lets them FNP the Bodyguard wounds.
If your Canoness was taking a MW, it seems like the sequence is that she would try to save, and if she fails the Celestians can bodyguard it, and then they get to try to save it as well. It won't come up that often, but it's good to know about.

Plus I just want to incinerate something with that Strategem. Like, go full Trogdor with Cleansing Flames, Holy Trinity and Storm of Retribution for 36 S5 hits with +1 to wound and rerolls. Such a lot of CPs, though...

tneva82 wrote:

Well certainly ignoring -2 so prevalent in marines is nice Which does btw help with eliminators(phew) though mortals still out there. But since sisters benefit a lot from their characters losing them hurts so some bodyguards could be good. too bad sisters have the inferior bodyguard rule compared to tau drones.

I will point out that if you're up against any of the Devastator based super-doctrines, Eliminators are punching at AP3. Given how prevalent the Dev based chapters are (IF and IH) you're going to need those bodyguards.

Good point. Luckily local meta has mostly ultramarines with some ravenguard(which did they have?) and salamander to mix. Iron hands are blessedly sparse(albeit I play mostly on the casual tournaments)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
I'm leaning towards Ebon Chalice myself. I feel like having a fistful of 6s on command helps in a huge amount of situations. That Lascannon is bouncing off my Exorcist. That CHE is taking a missile to the face regardless of the -3.

Their Conviction means you can fully lean into generation of MD without worrying about duff rolls. I'm not 100% on the wording, but I think you could even use a MD generated by a Cherub as discard fodder for a different unit (they don't get discarded until the end of the phase)

Did Ebon have any special rule regarding cherub? As normally cherub is for the squad itself. And lost if not used which is why I put banners on squads with cherubs.

CHE's I deal with "ignore modifiers" strat Take salvo of missiles hitting on 3+!

tneva82 wrote:

Did Ebon have any special rule regarding cherub? As normally cherub is for the squad itself. And lost if not used which is why I put banners on squads with cherubs.

Just the ability to discard a MD to make another one a 6 I think. Don't see any limitation that says you can't just discard it for the effect even if you're going to use the other dice somewhere else. Not sure it's worth it given how the Cherub dice is probably going to be a decent value given the roll 2 pick your poison idea.

I've decided to make 2 armies. This means my metals can stay one army and stay together, while my plastics can be another and stay together. The Argent Shroud playstyle is fun, but I am also looking forwards to Bloody Rose.

So... goodness. I feel like it's completely different. Lots of jump pack infantry. Lots of elites choices. How does one go for CP in Bloody Rose? You can't just bundle together a brigade and go whole-hog on troops. Rely on melee for anti-tank?

pm713 wrote:

Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?

One unit of snipers capable of shooting characters can pick up one of your support characters a turn under the right circumstances

you're just guardsmen with bolters without any support characters

Lemondish wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Did Ebon have any special rule regarding cherub? As normally cherub is for the squad itself. And lost if not used which is why I put banners on squads with cherubs.

Just the ability to discard a MD to make another one a 6 I think. Don't see any limitation that says you can't just discard it for the effect even if you're going to use the other dice somewhere else. Not sure it's worth it given how the Cherub dice is probably going to be a decent value given the roll 2 pick your poison idea.

Yeah, it's more a risk mitigation thing. You have to use the Cherub at the start of the phase, and the die is lost at the end of the phase. But most squads don't have that much use for the Cherub; it's BSS, Dominion and Celestians that can take them, so I guess you could use it on some melta damages but you run the risk of missing or not wounding. Probably more use for advancing or Deny.

But for Ebon Chalice a Cherub pretty much becomes '5pts, turn a dice into a 6 this phase' which might even be worth it without the Simulacrum Imperialis on the units. If you were running 2 Batallions or a Brigade you have the option to pay 30 points to have 6 guaranteed 6s, kind of. That's pretty excellent

Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.

Raulengrin wrote:
Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.

Inferno pistols only have a 6" range, so it's difficult, but do-able.

Raulengrin wrote:
Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.

An interesting one, I knew about two pistols but hadn't thought to replace them with inferno pistols (or hand flamers)

14 points for two inferno pistols over one meltagun is a win in my book

 Grundz wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.

An interesting one, I knew about two pistols but hadn't thought to replace them with inferno pistols (or hand flamers)

14 points for two inferno pistols over one meltagun is a win in my book

Just don't forget the range problem. I like to be within 6" where possible, but it's much easier for the enemy to avoid that range band than it is for them to avoid a 12" one.

Raulengrin wrote:
Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.

Keep in mind each bullet point in wargear options can be picked once per unit. So if you have "replace bolt pistol with x" it can be picked once. If you replace other weapon with bolt pistol can't pick bullet point again. Bullet point specifically needs to allow swapping multiple pistols.

Don't have codex with me to check wording.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

14 points for two inferno pistols over one meltagun is a win in my book

Just don't forget the range problem. I like to be within 6" where possible, but it's much easier for the enemy to avoid that range band than it is for them to avoid a 12" one.