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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 warboss wrote:
What's a "lifestyle" game?


I think games like Warhammer and MTG. Games that thrive on having a lot of "expansions" and additional boxes that you can buy over years. In contrast with regular boardgames that you buy once and never have to think about buying additional stuff again. They may have one/two expansions but generally the base game is made to work on its own.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Yep -- not sure what the standard term is.

Essentially, it's designed to demand so much of a gamer's time and money, that he will seriously commit to only one such game (or few such games). The commitment to play the game is measured in years, hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dollars, and multiple purchases. Sometimes, the purchases are for the same SKU (eg. random booster or starter packs), sometimes for different products that not all players have to buy (eg. miniatures for different armies), and usually centered around recent releases (eg. latest Magic block). Sometimes, the time commitment does not involve gameplay (eg. painting, collecting). The gamer's purchases typically follow the release schedule of the game. Often, to play a game session, each player will bring their own game components. The manufacturer is expected to have a regular release schedule of new product, and sometimes will have tournaments and prize support. (In contrast, a boardgame with multiple expansions is typically purchased only by the owner and the gaming group may be satisfied with playing without the latest expansions.)

This is not a rigorous definition (because BGG'ers seem to need that sort of thing), but, to continue what Mario says, it's a convenient description to separate games which have a much higher money and time commitment than other games, typically one-off boardgame purchases. (fwiw, While RPG's have a regular time commitment, they often don't have the expected monetary purchases. At the same time, go ahead and ask my friend about his commitment to all those pricey True Dungeon tokens...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/11 02:06:49


Rationalization: Because you refused to admit you backed a failed KickStarter. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Yep, it's also a pretty unique thing for wargamers. Warhammer 40K is the "Madden" or tabletop wargames. I'd argue that Warhammer gamers are far more likely to play only Warhammer (or AoS) and maybe one or two other GW specialist games, but are less likely to be a generic wargamer (i.e....play and game anything). Same thing goes for some FFG titles.

By contrast, a wargamer outside of these major IPs is more likely to play a number of different genres, IPs, eras, etc.

 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






Yeah but with GW games it seems to "improve" what you already have... Example the terrain GW releases.. I don't throw away the old but just add to what I already have
to make a better looking table. Same goes with buying another unit.. or hero.. I can customize to what I want.. But FFG with the Star Wars Licences will get in the trap
of how many versions Darth Vader they can sale before having to over hauling everything to force the customers to buy a new one..

As for the Customer service being laid off, I seen a request for a missing component from the imperial specialist box set, was sent in early Tuesday morning.. No change,
Just marked as received same as right after I sent it out... Maybe next week I will get a reply.. Don't want a guy with a missing arm. But if no one is assigned to do that..
Could be weeks before I hear something.

 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/

FFG announced their Keyforge Genesis supplement : https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/fantasy-flight-keyforge-genesys-roleplaying/

The supplement was no doubt in the product pipeline after the RPG department did their work. WotC used freelancers for their D&D books, so maybe FFG will turn to that business model instead of hiring a department.

I'm also now speculating that the loss of the GW license (FFG also did not renew their Android license with WotC) has something to do with the layoffs. No license means fewer projects, so less personnel. Or cost-cutting means getting rid of the licenses and personnel.

The only FFG games I bought recently were Runewars and Keyforge, both at 2/3 off through Amazon. Seems that Amazon may be the only survivor of this increase in boardgames...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/12 05:17:19


Rationalization: Because you refused to admit you backed a failed KickStarter. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


What are you talking about? The 40K stuff was top drawer and as resource material is still as good, if not better then what Cubical 7 is trying to etch out. If anything it only enhances why FFG's 40K material is the best in the business.

The Fantasy carry over was a good child of the old Hogshead line, which, to be fair is also the best in the business carried over from the old Warhammer Fantasy game.

The Star Wars game, while it does have it's issues is streamlined enough that new RPG'ers can pick it up, run with it, and actually do something for their own groups. I'm still a sucker for WOTC's D20, but there are quite a few who like it for the simplicity.

As to the IA line- They killed themselves with the scale creep that lead to Legions. They didn't do themselves any favors when they started cranking out the vary same minis from IA to Legion Scale.

You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car.

FFG is and always has been an iffy company. We bitched about them with the Mansions of Madness stuff when they started getting too stupid with it, and then the company sucks as far as continued support. They are too big for their britches, and continue to show from Descent, up and including X wing and Legion why they shouldn't have been trusted with these properties. Hell, if anything HASBRO themselves should have held fast, cranked out the production of the games and called it a day.



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





AngryAngel80 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.


that may be the case with their board games, but their RPGs useally have had a pretty good run of it.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!






ced1106 wrote:Yep -- not sure what the standard term is.

Spoiler:
Essentially, it's designed to demand so much of a gamer's time and money, that he will seriously commit to only one such game (or few such games). The commitment to play the game is measured in years, hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dollars, and multiple purchases. Sometimes, the purchases are for the same SKU (eg. random booster or starter packs), sometimes for different products that not all players have to buy (eg. miniatures for different armies), and usually centered around recent releases (eg. latest Magic block). Sometimes, the time commitment does not involve gameplay (eg. painting, collecting). The gamer's purchases typically follow the release schedule of the game. Often, to play a game session, each player will bring their own game components. The manufacturer is expected to have a regular release schedule of new product, and sometimes will have tournaments and prize support. (In contrast, a boardgame with multiple expansions is typically purchased only by the owner and the gaming group may be satisfied with playing without the latest expansions.)

This is not a rigorous definition (because BGG'ers seem to need that sort of thing), but, to continue what Mario says, it's a convenient description to separate games which have a much higher money and time commitment than other games, typically one-off boardgame purchases. (fwiw, While RPG's have a regular time commitment, they often don't have the expected monetary purchases. At the same time, go ahead and ask my friend about his commitment to all those pricey True Dungeon tokens...


Mario wrote:
I think games like Warhammer and MTG. Games that thrive on having a lot of "expansions" and additional boxes that you can buy over years. In contrast with regular boardgames that you buy once and never have to think about buying additional stuff again. They may have one/two expansions but generally the base game is made to work on its own.


Thanks. That's not what I was expecting. I would have thought it was referring to a type of game a certain category/demographic of player would be drawn too (i.e. A professional adult and parent vs say a 14 year old).

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Thanks -- I'm not sure what term to use for "lifestyle" game, as it's evidently not clear enough. Anyway...

> Yeah but with GW games it seems to "improve" what you already have...

That's an interesting point, although Warhammer Fantasy fans will say otherwise.

Nah, I kid. GW's approach with 40K looks to be to have familiar enough tropes (eg. orcs) then add a layer of IP so they control their product (eg. gretchin, not goblins). They weren't able to do that with Warhammer Fantasy (so lost (?) sales to third parties), and put out a new "edition / version" as Age of Sigar. With 40K, I picked up some models of orcs and gretchins, and they still fit in with my 20+ year old models. I know GW drops specific models here and there (who still has their genestealer cult limousine?), but, while you're expected to buy new rulebooks, at least they're not dropping the entire line like FFG does (hello, incomplete BattleLore 2nd edition). While some second editions were fine (many BGG'ers liked the "app as DM" with Mansions of Madness 2.0), others were more ambivalent (I like Arkham Horror 3rd edition, but won't bother picking it up since I have Eldritch Horror).

I guess the closest way to "improve" for FFG is to focus on novelty for its "exploration" games, like AH, Descent, IA, and LotR??? That is, with these games, exploring new material is part of the enjoyment of the game. So, after getting used to the encounters and boss baddie of the first expansion, you shove the expansion back in its box, and buy another expansion for new content. Unfortunately, FFG (nor the rest of the base game plus expansions model) never quite got across that you could just buy any expansion with the base game and play. Come to think of it most "lifestyle" games don't use this model (while starter packs, introductory decks, and starter sets exist for Magic and 40K, they're there to assist new players, rather than act as "core" sets.)

> But FFG with the Star Wars Licences will get in the trap of how many versions Darth Vader they can sale before having to over hauling everything to force the customers to buy a new one..

Agreed. WotC does this with Magic, and is doing it with D&D. Magic players seem to be okay with this business model, but not necessarily RPG'ers, although they've been exposed to it since the OGL days. Anyway, to add to Geno, BGG'ers were not happy with FFG's "buy the cards all over again" situation with X-Wing 2.0, Nor were IA players enthusiastic when they found that FFG used a different scale model for Darth and Luke.

Rationalization: Because you refused to admit you backed a failed KickStarter. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

That is very much not WH40k.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter







Stormcast Eternals, Primaris Marines, same thing right?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler



The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.

Agreed. Those ffg 40k books are great. Especially when you realize how easy the different games can be mixed. Rogue Trader + Black Crusade = heretic marine space pirates.
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





Gadzilla666 wrote:
Agreed. Those ffg 40k books are great. Especially when you realize how easy the different games can be mixed. Rogue Trader + Black Crusade = heretic marine space pirates.


Yes, exactly this. Now I want to do a campaign in Black Crusade based around this idea.

I saw it like this:

Deathwatch and Black Crusade are where you get your Marine fix.

Only War is what you use when you need your enemies to have some tanks and military wargear.

Rogue Trader is for your ships and your weird critters, with some world-building tools.

Dark Heresy is where you get the creepy little oddities and conspiracies.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




BrianDavion wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.


that may be the case with their board games, but their RPGs useally have had a pretty good run of it.


Well it was the case for them until it wasn't. Still seeing how other things were treated to expect more from any of their systems is I think foolish at this point. That does have me very cautious about what I buy from them anymore to be sure.
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey








Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





 Albertorius wrote:
Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


While it sucks that we keep derailing this (and I'll fix that, a little) 2 questions:

Has C7 indicated any desire whatsoever to expand on Wrath & Glory? Because the last time I looked at the book, it was... pretty basic. And not 'basic' like a tool kit RPG, but like... basic like your options were generic and bland with little to work with at all. I mean, are we seeing anything expanded like adversaries, equipment, campaign books, etc.? Because as it is, the best possible use for the book (other than birdcage liner) is... well, maybe crutch heavily on the old FFG material and try to kind of make it work with the new system.

...Did the FFG RPG game for Star Wars include any settings other than the movie eras? Or was it generic?

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Tacoma, WA

 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





WUWU wrote:
Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


Not sure if you've noticed, but the very core reason this page exists is for GW games, the rest are sort of tacked on. I mean, you're practically rolling your eyes at people in a cigar lounge for wanting to smoke cigars instead of a pipe or a cigarette.

Additionally, to call this page a GW fanboy page, well... there's a comical amount of people here who spend more time whinging about what GW does than fanboying it.

Also, there have been like 3-4 attempts at a Marvel superhero skirmish games, and they've been overall... interesting for a brief time and forgotten. This one is coming in at what appears to be the end of the superhero hype. Also, unlike the Batman Miniatures game- it doesn't bring anything new to the table other than 'hey it's a skirmish but with Marvel heroes'.

And we also take a dump on whatever is happening at Privateer Press and CMON, too.

That doesn't mean every turd we've curled off is completely unjustified.


"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Tacoma, WA

I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6

We've all spent way too much money on Space Marines here, to use in what is an objectively terrible set of rules, so I get a bit of fiery brand loyalty, but using the discussion on Dakka as some kind of barometer for the gaming world at large and referring to something as "a fart in the car" is just silly.

It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further

   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


While it sucks that we keep derailing this (and I'll fix that, a little) 2 questions:

Has C7 indicated any desire whatsoever to expand on Wrath & Glory? Because the last time I looked at the book, it was... pretty basic. And not 'basic' like a tool kit RPG, but like... basic like your options were generic and bland with little to work with at all. I mean, are we seeing anything expanded like adversaries, equipment, campaign books, etc.? Because as it is, the best possible use for the book (other than birdcage liner) is... well, maybe crutch heavily on the old FFG material and try to kind of make it work with the new system.

...Did the FFG RPG game for Star Wars include any settings other than the movie eras? Or was it generic?


So far they've only announced that they will be releasing all the supplements and adventures Ulisses Spiele announced, so that's two campaigns and at least one additional sourcebook, IIRC. After that we'll see. Thing is, C7 is... notoriously slow moving, so it might take a while.

As to the FFG's SW RPG, almost everything is from the OT era, with some dabbling into the rise of the Empire times, but mostly during the original trilogy. They released a new trilogy starter box and some Clone Wars/Republic stuff, but that's it.

OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





WUWU wrote:
It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further



I do, provided it's laying out reasons that could very well be the reason they failed. Failed games don't often happen because a bolt of misfortune from the skies struck them by some random chance. It's usually because of bad business practices, poor QC, lack of support, bringing nothing new to the table, etc. Ideally, someone has a lesson to learn.

I also believe that every human being has a right to say why they like or dislike something. And none of these game companies are our pals, they just make products we like.

I'm 100% all right with other game companies existing. I want them to exist. GW gets away with some of the scummier/dumber ideas because... no one out there is giving them a real run for their money. Someone needs to do that, but it's going to take a bit more than "battle game with toy soldiers and dice" to do that. From what I can see of the Marvel game, it looks like... a skirmish game with superheroes. Well, I've got one of those already. Two, if you want me to go dig up my Heroclix collection.

One thing to consider- not all of us have massive disposable income, or time. As much as I'd like to try a large number of games- that's time and money. And as much as we'd like to claim that these other miniatures games are 'cheaper than 40k', at the end of the day that's still a lot of money. And then there's learning a new rule system, and then painting.

Oh, and the other issue- it doesn't matter how great a game is, I'll tell you like I tell the two dozen people on the planet that play Horus Heresy- no amount of 'better than 40k' or 'super awesome and well balanced' is going to make a damn if 1 person in my city plays it. I don't really have a lot of time to go out and 'recruit' new players (which means I have to talk them into spending quite a bit of money and giving up their own time to try something).

I've spent a good part of 2018 and 2019 cleaning out various miniatures and games from my collection for hilariously cheap- all because 'other games exist' and I got talked into trying them, only to discover that it wasn't worth the investment because I don't have the money to invest in it, I don't have the time to dedicate to it, and I would be playing against the same 2 people any time I got a game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
As to the FFG's SW RPG, almost everything is from the OT era, with some dabbling into the rise of the Empire times, but mostly during the original trilogy. They released a new trilogy starter box and some Clone Wars/Republic stuff, but that's it.


Honestly, thanks. I appreciate the info. You saved me a trip to a store to flip through the book and then put it back on the shelf. That's like, two dollars in gas.

 Albertorius wrote:
OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.


While I'm all about doing a few creative changes here and there, I wouldn't buy a car that requires me to push it down a hill to get it going. When/if they expanded on this, I'd consider it. But until then, it can occupy shelf space at a store.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/12 12:18:38


"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!






WUWU wrote:
I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6

We've all spent way too much money on Space Marines here, to use in what is an objectively terrible set of rules, so I get a bit of fiery brand loyalty, but using the discussion on Dakka as some kind of barometer for the gaming world at large and referring to something as "a fart in the car" is just silly.

It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further



Weird. I've had long discussions about niche games many times over my 14 years in dakka and I haven't played GW games regularly since becoming unhappy with the direction they took starting in 6th edition. Have you tried visiting subforums other than news and rumors? That's where the bulk of the non-GW discussion happens. If the Marvel game is as popular as you seem to be inferring, I can't wait to see it on the next ICV2 top selling games list! I haven't looked much into it as I haven't seen it being played locally but hopefully both of those will change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:

Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


Did they actually print the revised code book? I know they announced it and I followed the news last year but both the updates and my own interest seemed to wane in the latter part of 2019. I was actually planning on picking it up depending on the nature/scope of the changes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/12 12:24:45


   
Made in at
Storm Trooper with Maglight





 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.


I don't know if WANGs problem was having to tie itself to the models so much as attempting to appeal to that very vocal minority who insisted FFG should have just one one corebook and that it's dumb they can't have a Marine, a Commissar, an Eldar, a Tau Battlesuit and Ork in the same party. Low and behold, WANG let you do that with all the depth of a puddle to the surprise of- well, nobody but the people asking for it obviously. Is there a good game buried under all that mess? Maybe, but it sure doesn't seem like C7 wants to dig for it anymore than Ulisse did. Considering how threadbare the kitchen sink approach of the corebook was, you'd think they'd be ready and waiting to shovel splats out constantly - it certainly set itself up for just that. I'd blame it on low sales, but if we use DriveThruRPG as a wonky measurement (to say nothing of physical copies) it was outselling WHFRP 4E for about two months or so. 4E also received the barest Warhammer Community coverage compared to WANG that had a dedicated webcomic and other trimmings. Word of mouth was pretty damning though, which probably played a part.

I do, provided it's laying out reasons that could very well be the reason they failed. Failed games don't often happen because a bolt of misfortune from the skies struck them by some random chance. It's usually because of bad business practices, poor QC, lack of support, bringing nothing new to the table, etc. Ideally, someone has a lesson to learn.


The rest of your post summaries pretty well why you only have those 1-2 other people to play with. The vaaasstt majority of people into wargaming get into it because of 40k. Most people will have invested hundreds/thousands before they even discover other games. By that point they already have a GW collection they can go back to, know people will be playing it, and don't want to 'risk' other games for that reason. GW is in a very unique position of possessing a monopoly in a niche hobby that happens to have people willing to spend A LOT of disposable income due to the social nature of the game. Most people seem to generally acknowledge GW can't write rules for crap and are overpriced, but won't dip their toe elsewhere because they're so afraid of being the only duckling in the pond... but if they stick with 40k, they know they'll be safe forever, especially after 8th proved all GW has to do is make some self-aware memes and people will come crawling back no matter what.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/13 01:52:37


 
   
Made in ca
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WUWU wrote:
I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6



you realize the complaints about propretary dice have largely been within a context of RPGs right?
Trust me, I don't criticized FFG's using propertirty dice out of a loyalty to GW. if anything it's loyalty to the old WOTC SWSE that does it.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.


While I'm all about doing a few creative changes here and there, I wouldn't buy a car that requires me to push it down a hill to get it going. When/if they expanded on this, I'd consider it. But until then, it can occupy shelf space at a store.

Do you play many RPGs? Because statting stuff to play is basically what you do every time you design an adventure. Plus, Star Wars eras are basically palette changes and trapping swaps anyways, so if you know the era you can simply take the OT or CW era stats and use it with as little as simply changing the name...

Anyways, anything you could ever really need to play Star Wars is already there, it's not exactly as if there's a dearth of conversions to any system you can care to mention, from Storyteller to Forged in the Dark, and that's not even counting the official ones.

warboss wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


Did they actually print the revised code book? I know they announced it and I followed the news last year but both the updates and my own interest seemed to wane in the latter part of 2019. I was actually planning on picking it up depending on the nature/scope of the changes.

Looking at it... no, they actually haven't yet. The Ulisses core is out of stock and they have so far released a revised pdf, but it appears they have yet to print it.
   
Made in us
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C7 is a small company and takes quite some time to get things done. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they had to slot 40k work after AoS and WHFRPG due to the somewhat sudden change. I also think I read somewhere they were redoing most of the art to be less cartoony.
   
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WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.


LoL IA is what almost half a decade old remind me of the loooooong list of GW cash grab shovelware that has been born and died in that time and in some cases been born and died only to be dug up and then buried again. FF have survived where a lot of the competition has not by being ruthless when a game is not selling or a license is no longer worth it
You are deluded if you think GW's license is worth more than the SW license not to mention the restrictions GW wanted to include in the renewal that would have killed IA and Xwing anyway, besides the 40k rpg's while really good were not exactly making money hand over first for FF.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/18 19:14:22


Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
 
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