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Fair point Doc, still not sure what happened to American Gods mind, adding more rambling to an fairly rambling book wasn't ideal and if not from Mr McShane and Ms Browning, I (a fairly rabid Gaimanite) would have given up on it, although wishy casting would have wee Emily as the bestest Endiess, she who was once Delight

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Up to Episode 9 now, dear dear Mr Fry being. like I've gushed before, is perfect casting

Only hhhmm I have is Unity, if she was 12 in 1916 she's now pushing 120, adding an extra generation to the Walker family makes sense but doesn't fix Unitys unlikely life span

Spoiler:

unless its linked to the vortex somehow

And and the tweak to the Lyta. Hector and Jed plot was fine but I hoped for Brute and Glob, yes they are kind of goofy but I liked them

Episode 10 done and dusted

One heck of a ride, and despite the splendid turns Dream, Death and Gilbert put in I think MVP was the Corinthian

Curious to see what happens next as the next arc big and the one shots from Dream Country are kind of very strange for telly (although a whole cat based episode would be mog-fastic)

Arguably, that's where the advantage of streamed episodic TV comes in - the episodes don't have the be the same length, and can be given the time they need to breathe.

Given how well it seems to be doing on Netflix - has been No. 1 show in a silly number of countries at this point - I'll be very surprised if we don't hear of season 2 being confirmed at some point this year.

I was surprised to hear from Mr. Gaiman that no merch was organised prior to the show airing - you'd think Funko, at least, would've been prepared to get in on the action, given the number of random licenses they'll make Pops for.

No Merch ? Time to Ebay my many t-shirts which have all strangely shrunk over the past 20 years... (doubley depressing as most of them are chunky fan boy size to start with)

another season of whatever length would be excellent

if nextflix dont cancel it for no obvious reason as they seem to do for all too many popular shows that dont hit some hidden metric

Given I had read the Sandman comics way too long ago to remember them vividly, only the aspects started to come back as I saw them on the show, so was super entertained.

However, I do agree with some of the reviews that an episode here and there was a bit off-track and not entirely necessary. But where I do think the show hit it right on was the casting - superb in every respect, even if people complained it did not match the comic persona. And oddly enough, Mason as Desire was awesomely good, being a non-binary that could seduce either side was scary great. I definitely want to see more of each of the siblings.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Episode 10 done and dusted

One heck of a ride, and despite the splendid turns Dream, Death and Gilbert put in I think MVP was the Corinthian

Spoiler:

and much like Arnold he'll be back

Curious to see what happens next as the next arc big and the one shots from Dream Country are kind of very strange for telly (although a whole cat based episode would be mog-fastic)

Comments from Neil were to the effect of "More about "Season of Mists" than "Dream Country" (Lucifer abdicating Hell, etc) - which also tallies well with that ending.

 chromedog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Episode 10 done and dusted

One heck of a ride, and despite the splendid turns Dream, Death and Gilbert put in I think MVP was the Corinthian

Spoiler:

and much like Arnold he'll be back

Curious to see what happens next as the next arc big and the one shots from Dream Country are kind of very strange for telly (although a whole cat based episode would be mog-fastic)

Comments from Neil were to the effect of "More about "Season of Mists" than "Dream Country" (Lucifer abdicating Hell, etc) - which also tallies well with that ending.

Fair enough, although I think you could stick in Midsummer in mid-season as a break

Although seems with Neil's comment and lack of connected DC supers we'll miss out on "Facade" kind of a shame as more Kirby can only be good, although fingers crossed for a slightly frazzled Death trying to reason with the Dead Boys (or you know just give her a High Cost of Living spin off)

I would love it if they made a Book of Death movie with High Cost of Living and Time of Your Life as a part a part b kind of thing.

Years ago, some rpg friends who knew I did metal casting, asked if I could make a prop for them for an upcoming "Freeform" (live action rpg event. Like LARP, but more "amateur drama society" and none of the whacking with foam swords gak) that was going to be based on "The Season of mists".

They wanted an actual physical prop for "the key to hell".

So I sculpted one up, based off the artwork for it, and turned that into two wax castings (that in turn, were used to create bronze casts of the key. One went to the overall 'winner' of the event, one went to the writer of the event. They weighed about 600 or so grams each, so had a bit of a heft.

That mould disintegrated years ago. I think I'll have a go at doing a new sculpt, and this time, I'm going to keep the bronze cast I make of it.

That sounds rather cool

I remember one of my LARP'ing chums tried to do Dream's helmet once, as I recall he gave up ands modded it into a rather splendid plague doctors mask

Vaguelly recalling it from my youth I watched a few episodes

Its...ok...it looks pretty and some really good actors....but ....I don;t know I can't seem to care about anyone in it...I think if the central character had stayed in his glass cage I think he would have been as happy as he can be -not sure he can be..... Some of the other characters I found too dull to follow.....

but yeah it looked good......I guess.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Vaguelly recalling it from my youth I watched a few episodes

Its...ok...it looks pretty and some really good actors....but ....I don;t know I can't seem to care about anyone in it...I think if the central character had stayed in his glass cage I think he would have been as happy as he can be -not sure he can be..... Some of the other characters I found too dull to follow.....

but yeah it looked good......I guess.

I mean, whether or not Morpheus can change and be happy is sort of one of his central arcs across the entire comic run. The endless all kind of suffer this to some extent or another and come to different conclusions. Either reveling in their nature but ultimately being slaves to it (Desire), finding purpose and contentment (Death), or doing everything they can to escape it (Destruction). It's heavily implied but not flat out stated that Delight became Delirium possibly from seeing the truth of the existential issue of their true natures.

How miserable Morpheus is while trudging on due to some sense of pride or duty and what that means for him is more or less the central question of the story.

I'm slowly going through it (only on ep2), but the big barrier for me is Dream's monologues. Particularly after the 'gun moment' in episode 1, where he muses on humanity becoming more 'barbaric' (he might use a different word in the moment, but I can't be asked) without his influence on their dreams.

I choked on that pretty hard, even though I know the Endless are supposed to be the main characters of the story. But that's going way too hard on stripping agency away from people, which is already an issue once you make Immortals in charge of controlling fundamental aspects of human behavior. It is, philosophically and psychologically, fairly gross. Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

I have a coworker who's all about this, she's a big fan of Gaiman, particularly Neverwhere, but mostly I remember that one as a slog and American Gods I just put aside and never went back to it. This is reminding me why. And the end credits leaning on 'raven drops f-bombs like candy' wasn't exactly a pull forwards.

Voss wrote:
I'm slowly going through it (only on ep2), but the big barrier for me is Dream's monologues. Particularly after the 'gun moment' in episode 1, where he muses on humanity becoming more 'barbaric' (he might use a different word in the moment, but I can't be asked) without his influence on their dreams.

I choked on that pretty hard, even though I know the Endless are supposed to be the main characters of the story. But that's going way too hard on stripping agency away from people, which is already an issue once you make Immortals in charge of controlling fundamental aspects of human behavior. It is, philosophically and psychologically, fairly gross. Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

I have a coworker who's all about this, she's a big fan of Gaiman, particularly Neverwhere, but mostly I remember that one as a slog and American Gods I just put aside and never went back to it. This is reminding me why. And the end credits leaning on 'raven drops f-bombs like candy' wasn't exactly a pull forwards.

I can understand this point of view. Totally disagree with it, and adore American Gods (the book, not so much the series), but understand it.

I would say that the question of how much free will and agency humans possess, and how much we are simply responding to our circumstances (and the machinations of various forces beyond our control) is one of those essential human questions. If you choose to continue the series, and certainly there's no obligation to, you'll find an increasing number of humans acting as individuals in spite of their relative lack of power or control.

Dreams a very peculiar character. Odd sense of justice, bizarre sense of compassion- he's not conforming to human standards at all, which I think is one of the show's greatest strengths. Showing an alien individual is not easy, nor is watching a show from the point of view of one.

Voss wrote:
Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

The tools are covered in the next few episodes.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

I would say that the question of how much free will and agency humans possess, and how much we are simply responding to our circumstances (and the machinations of various forces beyond our control) is one of those essential human questions. If you choose to continue the series, and certainly there's no obligation to, you'll find an increasing number of humans acting as individuals in spite of their relative lack of power or control.

Lack of power doesn't bother me. Control bothers me less- I don't understand it, but history (and modern stuff) is a long line of idiots acting without control.
Agency is a different thing. Dream not being around to personally direct the dream realm means the basic nature of humans has changed is... unpleasant.

Free will, on the other hand, is a pointless debate, as its impossible to tell the difference without being outside the universe and seeing the mechanisms (or lack thereof) of determinism. Assume whichever appeals to you, it literally makes no difference and is a waste of time.

beast_gts wrote:

Voss wrote:
Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

The tools are covered in the next few episodes.

Yep. I can tell. That is, in fact, the exact problem.
Fetch the macguffins (x3) isn't particularly interesting. It isn't interesting in MMOs, it wasn't interesting in Harry Potter, and generally isn't interesting in D&D (merely mathematically necessary). He's unknowable, powerful being. Fetching his helmet of defense +3, Sand of Spellcasting +4 and Ruby of Mind Control is potentially tedious in what's being built as a character piece. Especially when he's literally treating them as necessary hammers and nails for rebuilding his house. It takes away from the mystery rather than adds to it.

Very high fantasy, had a great pilot episode

Voss wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:

I would say that the question of how much free will and agency humans possess, and how much we are simply responding to our circumstances (and the machinations of various forces beyond our control) is one of those essential human questions. If you choose to continue the series, and certainly there's no obligation to, you'll find an increasing number of humans acting as individuals in spite of their relative lack of power or control.

Lack of power doesn't bother me. Control bothers me less- I don't understand it, but history (and modern stuff) is a long line of idiots acting without control.
Agency is a different thing. Dream not being around to personally direct the dream realm means the basic nature of humans has changed is... unpleasant.

Free will, on the other hand, is a pointless debate, as its impossible to tell the difference without being outside the universe and seeing the mechanisms (or lack thereof) of determinism. Assume whichever appeals to you, it literally makes no difference and is a waste of time.

beast_gts wrote:

Voss wrote:
Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

The tools are covered in the next few episodes.

Yep. I can tell. That is, in fact, the exact problem.
Fetch the macguffins (x3) isn't particularly interesting. It isn't interesting in MMOs, it wasn't interesting in Harry Potter, and generally isn't interesting in D&D (merely mathematically necessary). He's unknowable, powerful being. Fetching his helmet of defense +3, Sand of Spellcasting +4 and Ruby of Mind Control is potentially tedious in what's being built as a character piece. Especially when he's literally treating them as necessary hammers and nails for rebuilding his house. It takes away from the mystery rather than adds to it.

I don't think the issue is Dream not being around changes humanity and more things like the Corinthian and other Dreams/Nightmares getting out there and influencing things in ways they are not supposed to be.

It's less a lack of something for humanity and more a legion of entities doing things they are not supposed to do to effect what humanity is doing. When Dream was around they were kept in check. Their influence was subtle. They served distinct purposes with the goal of helping humanity (and life in general) to sort out their own things and drive themselves to their own goals/dreams with these entities giving the right little nudge to offer the opportunity. Without Dream directing them... it's chaos. These entities get out into the waking world and start applying their individual influences in way that are no longer subtle. It's no longer a way for humanity to face their fears and instead a waking nightmare with people dying. It's no longer the pursuit of their own hopes and dreams and instead a place they retreat to and never truly wake from.

We watched it all over the last few days.
Meh, not grate but not bad. Not a fan of a few things but it is what it is. I'd nit pick over the house with the basement in Florida, given the wter table. But I am not entirely sure where that house was. And I found it odd that from where ever the cape Kennedy town was that it was only 3 hours to the hotel in GA. The map seemed to put it further south than I am and the trip would have taken me much longer I think.
Little things like that, in any movie in any genera that I know anything about bug me a lot.

Not a fan of the actress from Dr. Who, played Clara I think it was. Seems like she has one character she plays regardless of the characters name.

I really enjoyed the Audio version more than the show. I really feel like Audio is a much strong format for these kinds of media.

https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/the-sandman-surprise-bonus-episode-netflix/

Voss wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Voss wrote:
Dream's general powerlessness and 'I need my tools' attitude doesn't help either. It seems both at odds with his overconfidence and I always find a mystical character relying on tools to be oddly contemptible. (For which I blame both D&D and fantasy movies).

The tools are covered in the next few episodes.

Yep. I can tell. That is, in fact, the exact problem.
Fetch the macguffins (x3) isn't particularly interesting. It isn't interesting in MMOs, it wasn't interesting in Harry Potter, and generally isn't interesting in D&D (merely mathematically necessary). He's unknowable, powerful being. Fetching his helmet of defense +3, Sand of Spellcasting +4 and Ruby of Mind Control is potentially tedious in what's being built as a character piece. Especially when he's literally treating them as necessary hammers and nails for rebuilding his house. It takes away from the mystery rather than adds to it.

I thought the tool quests were pretty good. Unlike most films where they tend to be against some kind of doomsday clock, to be won at the last minute against terrible odds, in Sandman they focus much more on what it means for Dream to be, and how the lord of the realm of Dream interacts with other eternal players. I mean there are no endless trails of following clues across the world, its a single trip in each case and what results is an interesting short story, with some great looking effects.

 Azreal13 wrote:
https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/the-sandman-surprise-bonus-episode-netflix/

I seem to recall the two stories covered by this as being pretty good single-issue stories.

And, going by the trailer, another Dr. Who alumni in Sandman?

 Azreal13 wrote:
https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/the-sandman-surprise-bonus-episode-netflix/

Kittys ! And muses but more importantly Kittys

 Dysartes wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/the-sandman-surprise-bonus-episode-netflix/

I seem to recall the two stories covered by this as being pretty good single-issue stories.

And, going by the trailer, another Dr. Who alumni in Sandman?

Not seen it yet, but yes, there's actually two (David and Georgia.)

There's a few in both "A Dream of a Thousand Cats" and "Calliope"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Very interesting animation for Dream of a thousand Cats, not sure I liked the style or not

Calliope, felt a "bit filmed under Covid rules" but otherwise solid, and sets up some later plots

 warhead01 wrote:
And I found it odd that from where ever the cape Kennedy town was that it was only 3 hours to the hotel in GA. The map seemed to put it further south than I am and the trip would have taken me much longer I think.
Little things like that, in any movie in any genera that I know anything about bug me a lot.

Do not get me started on how the geography of London bends time and space in film and TV

I rather enjoyed the bonus episode.

Cat story made me wonder if we were set for anthology dream shows. And always pleasing to see Arthur Darvill on the screen.