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Consider this map from Warriors of Chaos army book. Cathay doesn't seem like quite such a whacky choice. It also seems pretty likely that Chaos Dwarves will be in there.
With a North Pole centered map it makes total sense.
I always thought the Chaos Dwarves have a cool look. Whatever you think of the big hats, the Assyrians meet Steam/Diesel Punk stuff was very cool, limited mainly by the casting tech at the time. A video game approach could be novel and cool.
His Master's Voice wrote: Beastmen were and still are a flaming dumpster fire of a faction. Chaos is just a plain, unlit dumpster. Wood Elves were barely passable until the very recent rework and that rework has yet to stand the test of time. TK's roster is lacking in generic Lord variety and their Mortal Empires campaign is lacklustre despite interesting faction mechanics. The Mortal Empires campaign for Vampire Coast is a joke, although they do have one of the best rosters in the game,so they have that going for them. Norsca is just plain vanilla mediocre, with nothing to distinguish them from other raiding factions.
Compare that to Skaven, Empire or even the reworked Orcs. Hell, Grom alone had more thought put into his mechanics than all the TK lords combined.
The issue with all of these is AI ruin dwelling.
Raiding/ non settling factions are at massive disadvantage not being able to hold ground. Not that's saying much because being better than beastmen is like a very low bar I hope they will do something about the ruin/razing mechanic. What I would like to see is a fix. Like if you defile/raze a place there should be a 5 turn cooldown from the moment corruption falls below 50%(starting at 100%) in the region before it can be settled by any faction. So if they want it back they will need to invest some heroes/untainted buildins in surrounding area. Which should amount to at least 10-15 turns before a ruin settlemnt can be re-occupied (searchable as normal).
I think this is currently the biggest issue allowing for order tide to just roll over chaos and beastmen. Its really frustrating to fight some hard battles 2-3 times on the trot and then be spent only for the enemy to walk back in and resettle when you go back to replenish.
Im sticking to my current rig. Unless it starts to chug or now allow me to go on ultra I don't see point in upgrading. Also if I spent the money I want to spend and my woman would find out shed probably leave me hahah
Also some rumours seem to suggest chaos dwarves are coming sooner than we think - perhaps a final race pack for WH2/ free LC for WH3. I don't think here will only be 3 playable races day 1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 23:46:19
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
They're pitching them as 6 factions. From the skullcrushers, they're hinting at distinct God armies, not 'Chaos Daemons' as an army. The FAQ is even more direct about it.
The declaration of no more race packs for WH2 still holds. The last dlc for wh2 will be another lord pack.
Yeah they won't add a new faction this late to Warhammer 2. They already tried that with Norsca and it burned them hard (they had to remake the army all over again) because the little unique features they put into Norsca weren't factored for in their porting software which promptly broke things when they tried to port it.
So I'd wager all the Warhammer 1-2 factions are already ported over to Warhammer 3 and any new ones will be made purely in the Warhammer 3 build.
My guess (and I could be very wrong), is that Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves, and probably also Araby are in different stages of development and the pre-order bonus will come down to which of the three is going to be most ready to go on release. I would guess that Ind/Nippon/Khuresh are also in dev but based on the TWW2 preorder also being a TWW1 faction, I would guess that those three are too far off the map to be the bonus faction. My guess is that its mostly going to be between Chaos Dwarves and Araby as these are the two factions that would fit within the current map state - of those I think Chaos Dwarves are more likely as they recently widened the map area into the Darklands (though it remains shaded out for now), which hints at intent to me.
Honestly, I have been wondering if The Old World isn't actually an attempt to make greater inroads into the Asian/Chinese market. The Asian market, and China in particular, *love* Western/European medieval fantasy tropes, but actual western/european medieval fantasies often struggle in the Asian/Chinese market because of cultural relativity and familiarity issues, etc. The decision to work Cathay in to things would be a smart play to lower the barrier for entry for Chinese and Asian audiences by offering them something a bit more familiar that they can work with and ease the transition into the more traditional Western/European medieval knights stuff that they otherwise go nuts for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/08 01:59:33
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Overread wrote: Sadly you're going to be in for a longish wait. That said whatever armies they are I'm sure they will be awesome.
Given that it's a pre-order/early adopter thing, they kind of have to tell us.
Eventually. Given that its tentatively dated for 'late 2021' (reasonable guesses are for September/October, assuming no shenanigans, which to me means Nov/Dec, with a chance of January '22, because this year will have shenanigans), the rough details of the Early Adopter race will probably be June-ish?
chaos0xomega wrote: My guess (and I could be very wrong), is that Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves, and probably also Araby are in different stages of development and the pre-order bonus will come down to which of the three is going to be most ready to go on release. I would guess that Ind/Nippon/Khuresh are also in dev but based on the TWW2 preorder also being a TWW1 faction, I would guess that those three are too far off the map to be the bonus faction. My guess is that its mostly going to be between Chaos Dwarves and Araby as these are the two factions that would fit within the current map state - of those I think Chaos Dwarves are more likely as they recently widened the map area into the Darklands (though it remains shaded out for now), which hints at intent to me.
Honestly, I have been wondering if The Old World isn't actually an attempt to make greater inroads into the Asian/Chinese market. The Asian market, and China in particular, *love* Western/European medieval fantasy tropes, but actual western/european medieval fantasies often struggle in the Asian/Chinese market because of cultural relativity and familiarity issues, etc. The decision to work Cathay in to things would be a smart play to lower the barrier for entry for Chinese and Asian audiences by offering them something a bit more familiar that they can work with and ease the transition into the more traditional Western/European medieval knights stuff that they otherwise go nuts for.
There is something to this for sure.
I read somewhere that 3 kingdoms sold more copies in china alone than all other TW titles combined globally.
Could be total BS though and I havent really looked into it but I can well believe it..
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Overread wrote: Yeah they won't add a new faction this late to Warhammer 2. They already tried that with Norsca and it burned them hard (they had to remake the army all over again) because the little unique features they put into Norsca weren't factored for in their porting software which promptly broke things when they tried to port it.
So I'd wager all the Warhammer 1-2 factions are already ported over to Warhammer 3 and any new ones will be made purely in the Warhammer 3 build.
I wouldn't discount the idea of another Norsca type deal where the DLC is a Warhammer 3 race which is playable in Mortal Empires of TWW2, eg. Chaos Dwarfs in the big open space on the existing map. It gives people more reason to preorder because they can play that race prior to TWW3 being released, and in spite of the technical problems CA had with Norsca I think it was a good thing for them.
The reason I wouldn't discount it based on the Norsca "burn" is because the screw up there seemed to be a management problem more than anything. It sounded like Team Norsca simply wasn't communicating with Team Warhammer 2, and they realised too late that the projects had diverged enough to not be easily portable.
But with a better plan from the outset to deal with that, it shouldn't be as big of a problem.
There is something to this for sure.
I read somewhere that 3 kingdoms sold more copies in china alone than all other TW titles combined globally.
Could be total BS though and I havent really looked into it but I can well believe it..
The Chinese market is a fickle one, I think many movie and game studies have gone down the path of trying to appease Chinese consumers and failed, but if you get it right then it's a market that dwarfs the western ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/08 06:37:37
I read somewhere that 3 kingdoms sold more copies in china alone than all other TW titles combined globally.
Could be total BS though and I havent really looked into it but I can well believe it.
Yeah, that didn't happen. Just look at Sega financial statements for 2019 and 2020.
I wouldn't discount the idea of another Norsca type deal where the DLC is a Warhammer 3 race which is playable in Mortal Empires of TWW2, eg. Chaos Dwarfs in the big open space on the existing map.
But there is no big open space for Chaos Dwarves on the WH2 Mortal Empires map right now. CA would actually have to majorly expand the map to accommodate them.
Edit: Actually, I suppose you could fit a part of Plain of Zharr in the current WH2 ME map.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/02/08 15:39:46
Honestly, I have been wondering if The Old World isn't actually an attempt to make greater inroads into the Asian/Chinese market. The Asian market, and China in particular, *love* Western/European medieval fantasy tropes, but actual western/european medieval fantasies often struggle in the Asian/Chinese market because of cultural relativity and familiarity issues, etc. The decision to work Cathay in to things would be a smart play to lower the barrier for entry for Chinese and Asian audiences by offering them something a bit more familiar that they can work with and ease the transition into the more traditional Western/European medieval knights stuff that they otherwise go nuts for.
It works out really well for CA, the demand for Cathay has been very strong in the last few years so introducing them is a win-win. I for one am stoked to see a whole new part of the Old World that we have never seen before. I wasn't even that interested in WHF before Total War took a stab at it so they have really done something magical so far.
Still not convinced that we will ever see Araby implemented though. CA said (albeit quite some time ago) that they were never going to do them, plus the fact that they have no place to go in the 3rd game map. I suppose they could do another DLC for TWW2 later on but I am not sure how financially viable that would be for them.
Very unviable. It's worth noting that nothing they've done is backwards compatible. If you boot up TW1, none of the Orc, we, empire, etc changes are there.
Tw2 is going another lord pack and that's it. No more race packs and one last lord pack is official word.
They also won't add something to a game that doesn't fit on the base campaign map (not the mortal empires or equivalent map), so there won't be suddenly Araby in tw3 just for the updated 'ME' version.
I should have been clearer, when I said an attempt to make inroads into the Chinese market, I meant on the part of GW rather than CA (hence why I said The Old World instead of TWW3). As in I suspect that GW actively pushed/encouraged CA to go that direction with TWW3 in conjunction with its own re-release of The Old World in order to try to sell TOW minis to China.
From what I understand, while 40k has done well in China, Age of Sigmar has not. Would make sense that if they think they could sell WHFB to the Chinese market that it would be worth revitalizing it, etc.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: I should have been clearer, when I said an attempt to make inroads into the Chinese market, I meant on the part of GW rather than CA (hence why I said The Old World instead of TWW3). As in I suspect that GW actively pushed/encouraged CA to go that direction with TWW3 in conjunction with its own re-release of The Old World in order to try to sell TOW minis to China.
From what I understand, while 40k has done well in China, Age of Sigmar has not. Would make sense that if they think they could sell WHFB to the Chinese market that it would be worth revitalizing it, etc.
They could also just introduce Cathay into AOS directly, maybe with a renaming.
But *Cathay* isn't the real selling point to the Chinese audience, its the western/medieval european fantasy knights and landsknechts, alongside the stereotypical orcs and elves (and to a lesser extent dwarves) tropes - basically things that don't really exist in Age of Sigmar aside from legacy models that I'm fairly certain GW intends to eventually phase out from an aesthetics standpoint.
Cathay is there to help make the setting relatable to asian audiences and provide a frame of reference that makes the setting more approachable - they will come for Cathay, but they will stay for the knights and euro-centric crap.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: I should have been clearer, when I said an attempt to make inroads into the Chinese market, I meant on the part of GW rather than CA (hence why I said The Old World instead of TWW3). As in I suspect that GW actively pushed/encouraged CA to go that direction with TWW3 in conjunction with its own re-release of The Old World in order to try to sell TOW minis to China.
From what I understand, while 40k has done well in China, Age of Sigmar has not. Would make sense that if they think they could sell WHFB to the Chinese market that it would be worth revitalizing it, etc.
They could also just introduce Cathay into AOS directly, maybe with a renaming.
There are similar human cultures which have been mentioned but not really explored
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Just watched that now.. looks pretty darn delicious. Interesting looking roster for Kislev. I always hoped they would give them their own units, guess it made sense to do it like they have done.
Yeah we can make guesses as to the Kislev unit roster based on what models that have existed.
Kossars (Greatweapons/Bows)
Winged Lancers (basic shock knights)
Ungol Horse Archers (Fast Cav)
Gryphon Legion (this is the odd one as they are tehnically a Regiment of Renown so we'll see how they work)
In addition we can make inferences based on the Charater models. Lord of Ice will no doubt be in it since we see it with the Tzarina. Her dad was a priest of Ursun and he rode a bear, and we see them in the trailer as well.
Factor in all the stuff from Mordheim and Warmaster and we can see how the faction will flesh out.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Also what's that accent supposed to be? It sounds so weird to my ear, lol.
Sounds like an attempt eastern european/ Russian. Seems pretty clear.
I just hope they make cav and line infantry mean something..
It just seems so far from any Russian, Ukrainian, Pole, etc that I've heard.
I'm a Pole whose whole family is Poles living in England and also know many other eastern European nationals from work. This is more or less how it goes Not me thought. I learned English as a child so no bond villain accent for me.
Maybe eastern Europeans/ Russians trying to learn New Zealandy english come out with a totally different accent though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The main thing is... Ice Godzila...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 22:59:23
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Voss wrote: Interesting look at the unit rosters. Not sure about the 'mini-stories' of the bear-girl and the chaos kislevite.
Also not sure why Kislev has a spirit tiger leading Winged Hussars into battle at about 01:30.
Some old school chaos furies scattered around the video.
Mega ice-bear is interesting. Curious if it will be a buildable unit or just a summon for ice wizards.
I think it might be a rare unit like the Dread Saurian or Idol. Icezilla is interetsing. I'm not a big fan of mega units but gene is well and truly out of the bottle.
Yeah that tiger thing threw me off. Thought it was supposed to be a bear at first. I think it might be a fast monstrous hero/lord mount a la Brood Horror.
Main curiosity is if Blood thirster/ Lord of change will actualy fly (also the beastmen guy)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 01:22:22
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Eldar- 4436 pts
