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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
Well it's hard to tell - is she too cheap or is Gman about 100 points too expensive? It's probably more like...they should meet in the middle. These units are very similar in ability.


This, same with the new Snakebite character. They're 100 points cheaper than Morvenn and do way more damage.

Gman definitely should go down in points a bit.


Damage -1 vs damage halved.
3+sv base vs 2+sv base
a S6 heavy bolter and 2 krak missiles that reroll BS2+ hits and wound rolls vs a BS5+ 18" range Thump Gun
4+ save vs mortal wounds vs not.
RR1s to hit and wound and 1 unit RRs all hits and wounds, vs +1 to hit in melee

Gosh I wonder why morven might be a bit more expensive than mozrog, it's a good thing the only thing that determines value for point cost is how much damage something does in melee.


I am now going to start calling this ODS. Ork Derangement Syndrome.

Symptoms include but are not limited to:
"Orkz shooting should be over priced because they are good at CC and because they are orkz" usually followed by "Ork CC should be way more expensive because they are so good at it"

"Ork Boyz are SO OP!" This is usually said after said player slaughtered 60 but the last 30 got into CC and managed to kill 1 unit in return.

"Ork characters should be more expensive because of how good they are in CC" Also "Ork characters should pay more for their ranged firepower since its so good" Usually the poster forgets that orkz have BS5 for the most part.

Please add on to the list of Ork Derangement Syndrome symptoms
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Jidmah wrote:
Honest question - do you think necrons are inherently broken, or could point drops (read: more stuff on the board) fix whatever issues they are having right now?

They are inherently broken as the codex was clearly written with different specifications compared to every other 9th book. But drastic point drops could still keep Necrons competitive. The community has to take some of the blame in my opinion, playtesters have overrated the last two books so if their feedback to GW is "damn this gak is strong" then GW aren't going to improve anything and may even make nerfs. Whenever Necrons do get anything powerful there is an enormous outcry from the usual suspects and things end up getting nerfed quickly. So we end up in situations where units and abilities feel neutered or like the Nightbringer and CCB, receieve entirely unwarranted points increases
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I do not support point drops for Necrons. We'll just wind up in the same position as prior.

I'd rather see some rules tweaks.

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




The best solution for Necrons would be rules changes. Preferably a buff for some of the Command Protocols and a change to Reanimation could be great. Realistically, what we're most likely to get is a couple points drops.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Darsath wrote:
The best solution for Necrons would be rules changes. Preferably a buff for some of the Command Protocols and a change to Reanimation could be great. Realistically, what we're most likely to get is a couple points drops.


yea, they need some work, but given the current codex the most to hope for is points reductions and MAYBE one rework or 2 to a rule. Though that said, it is nice to have an army my craftworld eldar get to regularly play on a similar power level with as sad as that is.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I expect what we will see is a few point drops for units that nobody uses, which will be nice for people wanting to use them but won't actually move the needle on the faction's power at all. And we won't see that until December/January anyways
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Cynista wrote:
I expect what we will see is a few point drops for units that nobody uses, which will be nice for people wanting to use them but won't actually move the needle on the faction's power at all. And we won't see that until December/January anyways

This is my biggest fear. Since there is a fair delay between the changes and print.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Command Protocols being made more lenient is a really easy and obvious solution, as is making Reanimation work against mortal wounds. I'd be more hesitant about making Reanimation work on wiped squads, probably a good change as a once-per-game stratagem but as a general rule it'd be pretty questionable.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Arachnofiend wrote:
Command Protocols being made more lenient is a really easy and obvious solution, as is making Reanimation work against mortal wounds. I'd be more hesitant about making Reanimation work on wiped squads, probably a good change as a once-per-game stratagem but as a general rule it'd be pretty questionable.

Making it a once per game stratagem sounds pretty reasonable. Probably with a CP scaling on the Power Level of the wiped unit would work.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I frankly couldn't believe that it wasn't the first new strategem they wrote for the new codex. Such an obvious and easy one
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





I can only assume they did think of the stratagem, but there was an instance of an enemy player whittling down a shieldguard unit over an entire shooting phase and then having the stratagem proc'd after their last activation and the outrage outdid reason. If there's one thing that's consistent about control-oriented builds in all games, it's that they tend to piss off players of killier lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 19:35:52


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Arachnofiend wrote:
I can only assume they did think of the stratagem, but there was an instance of an enemy player whittling down a shieldguard unit over an entire shooting phase and then having the stratagem proc'd after their last activation and the outrage outdid reason. If there's one thing that's consistent about control-oriented builds in all games, it's that they tend to piss off players of killier lists.


^this.

In any given game system, there will be things that are held artificially less powerful than they should be to be balanced in order to cater to players' feelings.

In 40k, that is:

-Anything that is not a character should never ever ever not die

-Anything that is a character should never ever ever die

Any unit that causes one of those rules to be broken will generally be made less powerful than the game average to protect fragile feelings.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The other end of the problem is that any supposed play testing of Necrons would not have been against some of the other books to come after. I still think they're quite capable, but they could do with some support to keep the book from falling off the cliff.

   
Made in gb
Sinister Chaos Marine




Regarding playtesting, I'm sure 3 wound Death Guard Terminators seemed OK against D6 damage dark lances (50% chance to survive one shot) rather than D3+3 damage dark lances (0% chance to survive).

One well known set of playtesters claimed they tested the D6 damage version and the D3+3 was news to them. Also I'm not sure any playtesters have come out yet and said "yes we tested this broken thing and gave it a big thumbs up".
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Part of the problem with Necrons is so many subtypes. Core, Dynastic Agents, Destroyers, Canoptek, and even Flayed Ones who are none of the above.

Command Protocols requires a Noble, which is only the Overlord and Lord, which pigeon holes your HQ choices. Even just removing the Noble present requirement on that would help it a bunch.

For Reanimation Protocols, while it would lose a chunk of the flavor, I’d simply change it to a 5+++, though I know that’d make my Death Guard friend angry.

Their Relics could use some work as well.

 
   
 
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