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The free one was an aberration based on circumstances.

Since they're advertising the next one as a book (and the one after that by extrapolation of the whole '2 per year' announcement)... no, it will not be free. It will be bundled with the GT missions, same as it was before this year's hiccup.

Just as a minor aside:

The idea that wargame rules become "stale" if they aren't reconfigured every 6 months is laughable.

I don't see "balance dataslates" for Chess.

The only reason for this is to sell things, and if the game does indeed get stale without a seasonal reset... maybe it isn't actually that good of a core game design?

40k has one quintillion MORE things going on than chess, but apparently gets "stale" if left to settle for 6 months without getting hit with a brick. Hmm.

It is too much in my opinion, I do support GW creating content with an expiration date, but it should be 12 months and not in an expensive hardcover book. I also wonder how many seasons we'll go through before GW realise they don't have enough information to make any changes since last update and end up printing the same book as last time with some cosmetic differences. The last mission update felt half-finished with the lack of updates to mission secondaries and I do not like the upcoming changes to mission secondaries so I do not want to support the product. Points are still not in a great place and I doubt more printed books will fix the issue, online updates can be released to quickly deal with current issues, printed books deal with old issues. My expectations are just too low for GW to manage a 2 CA 4 Dataslate per year release schedule.

 kodos wrote:
not buying the rules but still playing the game to make a point is pretty much useless as it does not change anything

It decreases GW profits on the product, less profitable products are less likely to continue. It is also cheaper to just borrow the book so you can spend more on the products you approve of, like new Necron Characters like the Plasmancer or Chronomancer. I do think it is a big mistake when people mention Wahapedia on a public forum, it is going to get too big and then GW is going to make the developer's life difficult.

 oni wrote:
It's gakky, but not surprising.

The current mission design is so horrible, so complete trash, and has created such a stale and unbalanced game that this is GW's shoot-from-the-hip answer to try and get players back to the table. After all, GW fuels itself off of player hope. Hope that the next time/thing will be better.

Mike Brandt = The New Matt Ward

What game are you talking about? 40k does not have a stale meta, it changes every couple of months because of a new OP codex or the old OP codex getting a nerf. The current missions are fantastic and engaging, when a GT mission game is boring it is usually because of dice or pts being out of wack from my experience.

The 5e Necron Codex was a lot more innovative and evocative than the 7e version was and both were about equally unbalanced and I much prefer Newcron lore. Matt Ward absolutely made some stupidly OP books, but balance comes down to testing and points. "Matt Ward is bad at guesstimating points" is not a very damning statement, "GW refuses to put effort into testing their games" is. Whether you like fluff is more subjective, remembering the bad is just a lot easier than remembering the okay or good stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

"Plasma is too easily obtainable. To fix that, let's make them free instead!" What a great idea, why didn't I think of that?

Oh sweet summer child, that wasn't what I said. But if it makes you feel better let me spell it out for you:

Plasma is a crutch. It needs to be cut down in its availability, dramatically, across Imperial factions. The stuff is supposed to be rare now. Guard Infantry Squads have zero reason to be toting them en masse. Scions shouldn't be able to rock as many of them as they can. Skitarii Rangers just flatout shouldn't have them (they're more of a fit for, y'know, Vanguard).

Cut Plasma Guns from Special Weapon lists. Give them their own slot in squad organization setups.

Plasma is not a problem in competitive 40k or in casual 40k using pts.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
These seasons are just another reason why I feel no need to return to 40k.

Why return to the 40k General Discussion forum on Dakka? Why should GW cater to someone who does not play and who has plenty of reasons to not return? More frequent updates was a pretty frequent answer in the last questionnaire GW sent out and guess what, they did not give a flying squig about people that have not played 9th.

lol, plasma absolutely is a problem.

It's why Skitarii lost their ability to triple up on special weapons.
It's why they restricted Command Squads to 1 per Officer.
It's why they literally added two separate point costs for the stupid gun in Guard.

But yes. Say again that plasma isn't a problem. I could use a good chuckle.

Dudeface wrote:
If you own your codex and register it in the app, the points update there for free.

Literally the only person being stung for points changes are people who want a paper copy, if you pirated a book initially, odds are you'd do the same with points as a guess.

If you have to pay for something to get the points update, ie the app, it isn't free.

Tresson wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
If you own your codex and register it in the app, the points update there for free.

Literally the only person being stung for points changes are people who want a paper copy, if you pirated a book initially, odds are you'd do the same with points as a guess.

If you have to pay for something to get the points update, ie the app, it isn't free.

You don't need to pay to access your unit entries in the app.

 Kanluwen wrote:
lol, plasma absolutely is a problem.

It's why Skitarii lost their ability to triple up on special weapons.
It's why they restricted Command Squads to 1 per Officer.
It's why they literally added two separate point costs for the stupid gun in Guard.

But yes. Say again that plasma isn't a problem. I could use a good chuckle.

Plasma Command Squads have not been competitive in 9th you little chuckle Daemon. Why do you even care? You don't use points, you can just take whichever weapon has the best profile, so if plasma guns get nerfed you will just take the next-best weapon and you don't have to evaluate anything based on cost-effectiveness and army synergy because it has the same cost anyway and you just take as many weapons as possible.

Gee-golly-willickers, why would anyone care about substantial changes being made to their codices in the name of "balance" when it's really just being done as a knee-jerk to metachasing goons?



You'll notice, by the by, that of those 3 bits I mentioned? Literally only one has to deal with points.

Changing the Skitarii loadouts literally forces army-wide changes to the setup of the units players take.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Gee-golly-willickers, why would anyone care about substantial changes being made to their codices in the name of "balance" when it's really just being done as a knee-jerk to metachasing goons?



You'll notice, by the by, that of those 3 bits I mentioned? Literally only one has to deal with points.

Changing the Skitarii loadouts literally forces army-wide changes to the setup of the units players take.

Skitarii took 3 plasma guns because it was pts-efficient, Command Squads were more pts-efficient to transport than Veterans because 10 Veterans could have fewer plasma guns than 3 Command Squads. Skitarii lost the ability to spam plasma because the bits are not available in the box to make enough plasma to spam it. The Command Squad change was made at least in part because it was not thematic or historic that Command Squads were taken in excess of how many Commanders you had.

For anyone who genuinely believed the 40k metagame was stale, I suggest perusing the battle reporting for the last year on Goonhammer--there were tons of variations and iterations in lists within the top-tier armies with quite a bit of metagame interplay.

What I think people mean when they say 'stale' is that the Factions aren't balanced (they aren't) and that there are a number of nearly auto-pick units within certain armies (there are) which leads to high and low level repetition.

Any reasonably balanced game of high complexity will always have this--it isn't a failing of the game it's a feature (if present to reasonable degrees). [Note the caveat about 'reasonable'--I freely admit this is sort of a weasely 'No true Scotsman', which isn't intended but unavoidable]

As an example: Chasing the idea that there is some ideal army composition for a given meta, 'that just hasn't been discovered yet!' is a key driver for a lot of players (it certainly sparks loads of interesting debate in the Tactics sections).

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's why Skitarii lost their ability to triple up on special weapons.

Losing access to triple plasma in Skitarii squads had nothing to do with the rules and everything to do with GW restriction weapon options based upon what comes in the kit. Don't try to pretend otherwise.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's why they restricted Command Squads to 1 per Officer.

Did it make any sense that Command Squads sans officers would be floating around?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Just as a minor aside:

The idea that wargame rules become "stale" if they aren't reconfigured every 6 months is laughable.

I don't see "balance dataslates" for Chess.

The only reason for this is to sell things, and if the game does indeed get stale without a seasonal reset... maybe it isn't actually that good of a core game design?

40k has one quintillion MORE things going on than chess, but apparently gets "stale" if left to settle for 6 months without getting hit with a brick. Hmm.

It is like the rule books themselves were squirming, multiplying… confirming my suspicion of heresy and an infestation of chaos filth in GW headquarters. Starve the beast. Get it to stop moving. Then burn it. I could do with some “staleness”.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Gee-golly-willickers, why would anyone care about substantial changes being made to their codices in the name of "balance" when it's really just being done as a knee-jerk to metachasing goons?



You'll notice, by the by, that of those 3 bits I mentioned? Literally only one has to deal with points.

Changing the Skitarii loadouts literally forces army-wide changes to the setup of the units players take.

Skitarii took 3 plasma guns because it was pts-efficient, Skitarii lost the ability to spam plasma because the bits are not available in the box to make enough plasma to spam it.

This is a garbage argument. You've got two units (Rangers and Vanguard) that are built from the same kit. One of those units(Rangers) benefitted greatly from one weapon when first introduced (the Arquebi) while not benefitting from the other two because of range bands and unit rules while the other benefitted more from the other two weapons (Vanguard with Arc and Plasma Calivers).

It literally has nothing to do with "the bits are not available in the box to make enough X to spam it". They doubled the maximum unit size from 10 to 20, doubled the number of maximum specials from 3 to 6, and doubled the capacity for you to take Omnispex and Data-Tethers.

It has everything to do with invalidating previous builds. It has everything to do with some of the playtesters still having axes to grind over that stupid War Convocation dumpsterfire.

It also has everything to do with the design team of late really not knowing where to go with the Mechanicus. It's obvious they don't know how to properly balance the combined codices. It's obvious as well that they don't know how to actually write a book anyways.

Command Squads were more pts-efficient to transport than Veterans because 10 Veterans could have fewer plasma guns than 3 Command Squads. The Command Squad change was made at least in part because it was not thematic or historic that Command Squads were taken in excess of how many Commanders you had.

The change was made to curtail the trash being down early in 8E with the allied detachments. You'd see cheapo Psykers and then Scion Command Squads DSing in with full plasma.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They're not giving out the points changes for free. They gave out two armies as part of a balance sheet as they were needed. It was done as an emergency.

You think the new points coming with this first 'season' will be free?

I mean, it will absolutely be free online in all the exact places everyone gets them now. Wahapedia and Battlesscribe, so this whole line is a bit disingenuous. Nobody is buying these for points. There are no rules in these books that aren't available easily elsewhere. We buy them because those of us who compete want them. Theres no reason for narrative players to buy anything they choose not to, but the new missions are there to play if you want them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
lol, plasma absolutely is a problem.

It's why Skitarii lost their ability to triple up on special weapons.
It's why they restricted Command Squads to 1 per Officer.
It's why they literally added two separate point costs for the stupid gun in Guard.

But yes. Say again that plasma isn't a problem. I could use a good chuckle.

If those things have been fixed then sure, plasma WAS a problem. But right now it's not.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It literally has nothing to do with "the bits are not available in the box to make enough X to spam it". They doubled the maximum unit size from 10 to 20, doubled the number of maximum specials from 3 to 6, and doubled the capacity for you to take Omnispex and Data-Tethers.

It's literally the only reason it happened, because it happened to at least one if not multiple units in every Codex, with their restrictions changing (or being written to exactly match) the weapons available in the kit.

 vict0988 wrote:
schedule.

 kodos wrote:
not buying the rules but still playing the game to make a point is pretty much useless as it does not change anything

It decreases GW profits on the product, less profitable products are less likely to continue. It is also cheaper to just borrow the book so you can spend more on the products you approve of, like new Necron Characters like the Plasmancer or Chronomancer. I do think it is a big mistake when people mention Wahapedia on a public forum, it is going to get too big and then GW is going to make the developer's life difficult.

I know a lot of people who would stop playing if they had to pay for the rules, and GW knows that they need a core of "free" players to have a community to get the "whales" started

This does not hurt GW as their profit comes not from veterans who play and by a new unit from time to time but from new people who buy everything to have a 2k army to play with those guys and buy more to keep up with the meta

We have seen what happened with Warhammer if people just play but no new "whales" come in
GW changes the System to get them again, 8th 40k was similar although not a hard background reset it still was a big reset to start over

As long as the free player base get in enough paying players, no matter how bad the game is (and needing a reset every 6 months means it is really bad by now), GW will continue with the current business model

For those who keep wanting to come at me with the "iT's WhAt iS iN tHe BoX!1!" nonsense...

You're wrong.
You know how I know you're wrong?

Because the wording for the Data-Tether and Omnispex options are not this level of convoluted nonsense:

Page 98 – Militarum Tempestus Command Squad,
Wargear Options
Change the first and second bullet points to read:
‘• One model may either replace its hot-shot lasgun with a hot-shot laspistol and a vox-caster, or take a hot-shot laspistol and
a vox-caster in addition to their hot-shot lasgun.
• One other model may either replace its hot-shot lasgun with a
hot-shot laspistol and a medi-pack, or take a hot-shot laspistol
and a medi-pack in addition to their hot-shot lasgun.’

The simple(and correct) answer is and always will be that this garbage was balance related nonsense. You know why?

Because at 9 or less models, you get one special and one option of Data-Tether or Omnispex...yet somehow going up to 10 models(meaning: adding anywhere from 1 to 5 models) triples the number of specials.
Because they doubled the maximum size of the squad from 10 to 20 while still never allowing for you to triple up on specials.

Because at no point does there exist an option to have a Pistol, Rifle/Carbine, and a Melee on the Alpha despite there being a loose Galvanic Rifle and Radium Carbine on the sprue that would fit the bill for that. Because at no point does there exist an option to have an additional two Skitarii Vanguard or Rangers that aren't the Alpha with a Melee and Pistol despite there being two extras in the kit.

The "it's what's in the box" argument fails on so many levels and yet you lot keep coming at people with it. It's really quite silly.

• If this unit contains 9 or fewer models, 1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.
• For every 10 models in this unit, 1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.

You don't call this convoluted? There is also the fact that there are enough omnispexes in the box to equip 2/20 with them, so that's your silly theory out the window. Taking 2 omnispexes does nothing anyway, so nobody is going to be forced to scour the internet or proxy a second omnispex in their 20-man unit.

 vict0988 wrote:

• If this unit contains 9 or fewer models, 1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.
• For every 10 models in this unit, 1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.

You don't call this convoluted?

The only thing "convoluted" about it is the fact that you can tell the original wording likely featured "Ranger" and "Vanguard" models rather than simply "models".

Why do I say that?
Because it's the only thing that makes that bit of craziness make sense. A unit of 10 would be 9 Rangers/Vanguard and an additional model labeled as a Ranger/Vanguard Alpha.

And again, see what I put out about the Scion Command Squad/Scion Squad.

There is also the fact that there are enough omnispexes in the box to equip 2/20 with them, so that's your silly theory out the window.

This sprue is not duplicated in the box. You get one omnispex and one data-tether per boxed set of 10.

If you're going to talk down at me, at least be correct.

Bonus?

Sprue 02 features the "loose" Galvanic Rifle and Radium Carbine parts that just don't get used for anything really.

Remind me again what the point of having leftovers is? Because it kinda blows a hole in the nonsense about "it's what's in the kit!".

Taking 2 omnispexes does nothing anyway, so nobody is going to be forced to scour the internet or proxy a second omnispex in their 20-man unit.

If you're fielding a 20 man unit, you've bought multiple boxes...meaning that you've got two of each part.

And lord help you if you're running (shock! gasp!) multiple 20 model units!

Is that a box of 20 Vanguard Rangers? If not, you get two boxes, you get two omnispexes.

One model can be made into an Alpha, fitted with an enhanced data-tether or an omnispex - the box truly portrays the compulsive data-gathering nature of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

This multi-part plastic kit contains everything needed to make either ten Skitarii Rangers or ten Skitarii Vanguard. Included in the box are 124 components - twenty-three heads, eleven of which are Skitarii Rangers, twenty-five weapons, a small transfer sheet one Citadel 60x35.5mm Oval Base and ten Citadel 25mm Round Bases.

Seems like I am right dn dn dnnn... And a less convoluted way to write the option:

*1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. If the unit includes 20 models 1 other Skitarii Ranger may be equipped with one of the above. These models’ galvanic rifles cannot be replaced.

Now go read the options of the actual unit.

Because the Alpha cannot take an Omnispex or Data-Tether. Even in C: Skitarii that product info was wrong.

The options are the exact same between a unit with >10 and 10-19.

• If this unit contains 9 or fewer models,

1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.

• For every 10 models in this unit,

1 Skitarii Ranger equipped with a galvanic rifle can be equipped with one of the following: 1 enhanced data-tether; 1 omnispex. That model’s galvanic rifle cannot be replaced.

Your copy/paste literally talks about Alphas with the items...

Plasma has not been a problem for years.
The most recent competitive use of it were the plasma on the inceptors, which were simply nerfed with points, and that was a long time ago.

The change to skittles were purely made based on what is in the box, like plague marines, sisters and everyone else.

Except it wasn't. Because if the changes were "purely made based on what is in the box", it would be like Plague Marines, Sisters, or Kommandos where there's a shedload of options and very few if any wasted parts.

But keep trying! One day you lot might be right.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except it wasn't. Because if the changes were "purely made based on what is in the box", it would be like Plague Marines, Sisters, or Kommandos where there's a shedload of options and very few if any wasted parts.

But keep trying! One day you lot might be right.

Your snarky comments only make it more evident how desperate and out of real arguments you are.

Apocalypse81 wrote:


People who think getting new editions suck probably don't play WFB. I'd do anything for an official 9th edition (on top of TOW). The game would become incredibly stale without new editions and mission packs.

Serious question though: let's say WFB got one Campaign book per quarter (ie. two per season), and each contained fluff, a supplement for one army, and army of renown for another and a handful of rules updates. Each book is accompanied by a box set with at least one new model for each army in the box (because there is no WFB Kill Team equivalent).

That's new models for 8 factions/ year and new rules for every faction in the game.

Would that be enough to update it and keep it fresh in perpetuity?

Or are you arguing that they actually need to blow everything up and start all over again every 3-5 years so that you have to rebuy everything you already own for a 9th time?

This is WHY I'm all for seasons. They are a viable alternative to edition churn (which I've hated in every RPG, CCG, and Wargame I've played since I was in grade three).

PenitentJake wrote:

Apocalypse81 wrote:


People who think getting new editions suck probably don't play WFB. I'd do anything for an official 9th edition (on top of TOW). The game would become incredibly stale without new editions and mission packs.

Serious question though: let's say WFB got one Campaign book per quarter (ie. two per season), and each contained fluff, a supplement for one army, and army of renown for another and a handful of rules updates. Each book is accompanied by a box set with at least one new model for each army in the box (because there is no WFB Kill Team equivalent).

That's new models for 8 factions/ year and new rules for every faction in the game.

Would that be enough to update it and keep it fresh in perpetuity?

Or are you arguing that they actually need to blow everything up and start all over again every 3-5 years so that you have to rebuy everything you already own for a 9th time?

This is WHY I'm all for seasons. They are a viable alternative to edition churn (which I've hated in every RPG, CCG, and Wargame I've played since I was in grade three).

But its not an alternative to churn, its in addition.

You're most likely right Sim.

I'm not naive enough to absolutely believe that the persistent edition is finally here. I'm just a) saying that it could be and b) hoping that it might be.

But my eyes are open.