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H.B.M.C. - No, I do not think that the complaints are unfounded. In fact I stated the exact same complaint in a thread when the chosen were previewed. I'm merely pointing out that there are options out there and GW should consider that there are other Terminator Box sets out there that are applicable to CSM. This is in contrast to how many box sets there are of Plague Marine Terminators (1). Do I believe that they did consider that? No, but they should have.
Gert wrote: Nah I call BS on the Cult units being removed, and you can't just use "hur dur GW dumb" as reasoning for that being true.
What says fake to me is which cult units are removed. Why would WE getting their own book before EC? Not only EC had been hinted much more heavily in fluff, but GW historically been doing AoS and 40K chaos updates together. What was last AoS update? Slaanesh.
WE are active near Baal and on armageddon in recent fluff, or at least khornate forces are. Also blades of khorne is one of the oldest sigmar books, so due a refresh soon, your logic is proving the opposite here as the window for a 40k slaanesh was last year by your reckoning.
nathan2004 wrote: That was a longggg time ago, wonder why you sit on it for this long?
Well, the updated Castellan Crowe model was already done like, what, 5-6 years before it's reveal? As confirmed by the guy who painted it. So GW sits on some things for a good while for various reasons.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Kanluwen wrote: Grain o' salt time but there was some mention of "redesigns" to something, model-wise, that ended up pushing the whole bit back.
Makes me think it was Angron that had changes to the design.
It was back in the Hastings day, he claimed to have seen the prototypes for the primarchs but that some had to go back to the drawing board. I imagine Angron ended up too close to the thirster maybe?
Didn't they pull Storm Troopers from the 6th edition Guard codex so you had to buy the Tempestus Scion codex or am I remembering wrong?
They were SLIGHTLY more subtle than that. They released Codex Tempestus Scions a week or two before Codex Astres Militarium (or however it's spelled, the Guard) so people would assume the new book with the pseudo Latin name was the guard book when in fact it just had 2 units (Scions and Tauroxes). Then codex AM came out with Scions, Taurox and all the other IG units and everyone in Nottingham had a good laugh on their way to bathe in gold coins.
Or so I assume.
Jokes on you/them. I bought that book on discount at release and then turned around and sold it for over $100 2 years later.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nathan2004 wrote: That was a longggg time ago, wonder why you sit on it for this long?
"Done" in this case doesn't mean molds cut and minis production ready. Rather it means that they completed sculpting and maybe some preliminary fluff/rules development, etc. In general the studio is working a few years ahead of the release schedule (typically 2-3 years, but I've heard that some stuff is designed 5+ years in advance of its release depending on available production capacity, often what happens is that they design substantially more stuff than what they release at once, for example the recent AdMech cav and flyers were sculpted back when the original AdMech mini range was being worked on in 7th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 16:52:31
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Kanluwen wrote: Grain o' salt time but there was some mention of "redesigns" to something, model-wise, that ended up pushing the whole bit back.
Makes me think it was Angron that had changes to the design.
I wonder if they're going to release WE in parallel for the new Horus Heresy edition. With the relaunch the timeline can reach the Siege of Terra with daemon primarchs on the loose. It's at the point where the same models could double up in both 30k and 40k.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Of all the things in this thread I find "GW will try to make us spend $200 on more books so we can include 4 units" to be the most believable by far.
When has that happened ever. Seriously, I want an example of when GW took units from one army book and put them into another army book with the caveat that you could still use those units in the first army while not gaining access to any of the other units in the second army book.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Of all the things in this thread I find "GW will try to make us spend $200 on more books so we can include 4 units" to be the most believable by far.
When has that happened ever. Seriously, I want an example of when GW took units from one army book and put them into another army book with the caveat that you could still use those units in the first army while not gaining access to any of the other units in the second army book.
Wasn't that... last week?
I know you're going to quibble since you've added that 'not gaining access to any of the other units' (even though that isn't actually true for chaos allies either, since you can work around it with other faction keywords like Nurgle or Tzeentch)
For varying degrees of taking things away, but convoluted allies rules involving other books, see also Leman Russ Exterminators, Stormtroopers, Inquisition in general, Assassins, Basilisks, Daemons, Harlequins, Ynnari, assorted artillery pieces (mole mortars, rapiers, etc), robots... hmm. That seems like enough
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Of all the things in this thread I find "GW will try to make us spend $200 on more books so we can include 4 units" to be the most believable by far.
When has that happened ever. Seriously, I want an example of when GW took units from one army book and put them into another army book with the caveat that you could still use those units in the first army while not gaining access to any of the other units in the second army book.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Of all the things in this thread I find "GW will try to make us spend $200 on more books so we can include 4 units" to be the most believable by far.
When has that happened ever. Seriously, I want an example of when GW took units from one army book and put them into another army book with the caveat that you could still use those units in the first army while not gaining access to any of the other units in the second army book.
Splitting Chaos Marines and Daemons?
Splitting Grey Knights and Inquisition?
Splitting Sisters and Inquisition?
Splitting Deathwatch and Inquisition? I mean just retconning Deathwatch to not be tied to Inquisition but they never made a book...
Chaos cultists mutants etc. who have continually wandered into and out of CSM or supported rules in general?
Splitting Harlequins and E/DE (not clear how this will pan out in 9th I think?)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 20:12:52
So either the greater possessed sculpts are going to be used as normal possessed
Either these playtester ruleset he has is something special
Or maybe hes trying to blurr the line because of all the attention this is getting. My info was on Valrak and spikey bits, so weve gobe full on mainstream.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Greater Possessed are new models. This is getting fishier......
Maybe the idea is the new possessed are all 40mm beasty boys, so old greater possessed are the size of the new ones?
Possibly. But that wouldn't necessitate removing Greater Possessed from the codex. They're character units that buff other <DAEMON> units, not a basic elite infantry unit like Possessed.
Laughing Man wrote: It'd also be extremely weird for Possessed to get a new statline, when we already have one in Codex Death Guard.
While it sounds quite weird (but tasty to be honest), you have to remember that Death Guard Possessed have no real DG models which is very rare. They kinda exist only because they still give a reason to buy those old ass generic csm models and might as well be dropped in the next iteration, same with the vanilla chaos lords and terminator sorc. If GW wants to shake things up with new Possessed models they can easily do so without paying much attention to the DG ones as they have their own prefix and are there to please the people who have bought those antique models. And if they so wish, they can then upgrade them to again be same datasheet as the new CSM posssessed, which I doubt because they don’t seem to encourage model sharing between codexes.
Then again I’m still a bit skeptical about the matter, because I myself have been told by another source that the new Possessed unit size will be the same 5-10 that the DG ones have, which doesn’t sound like a 3W 40mm base size unit. I can’t provide any proof of course, but I was going to buy from my source 15 Possessed models but then he warned me that their unit max will drop after which I bought only 10. Could be lying, but there wouldn’t have neen any benefit from it.
Laughing Man wrote: It'd also be extremely weird for Possessed to get a new statline, when we already have one in Codex Death Guard.
While it sounds quite weird (but tasty to be honest), you have to remember that Death Guard Possessed have no real DG models which is very rare. They kinda exist only because they still give a reason to buy those old ass generic csm models and might as well be dropped in the next iteration, same with the vanilla chaos lords and terminator sorc. If GW wants to shake things up with new Possessed models they can easily do so without paying much attention to the DG ones as they have their own prefix and are there to please the people who have bought those antique models. And if they so wish, they can then upgrade them to again be same datasheet as the new CSM posssessed, which I doubt because they don’t seem to encourage model sharing between codexes.
Counterpoint: Literally every daemon engine in the Thousand Sons codex.
A good counterpoint! Thousand Sons have much fewer units than Death Guard however, so they kinda need to encourage sharing there. Plus Thousand Sons daemon engines are based on modern unit designs, whereas DG Possessed use legacy models. Could mean that they too might get updated rule in 10th codex however, if all this is even true.
AarresaariAarre wrote: A good counterpoint! Thousand Sons have much fewer units than Death Guard however, so they kinda need to encourage sharing there. Plus Thousand Sons daemon engines are based on modern unit designs, whereas DG Possessed use legacy models. Could mean that they too might get updated rule in 10th codex however, if all this is even true.
Those "legacy models" that Death Guard use for their Possessed are the same models that CSM currently use for ours. If we get new models for Possessed, Death Guard will be able to use those as well. Just like all of the other shared units, like: Land Raiders, Predators, Rhinos, Cultists, Defilers, Hellbrutes, all of our fw options, etc, etc.
Could you use Daemons in a CSM list or CSM in a Daemons list prior to the addition of the Lesser Daemons in the 8th Ed Codex? If not then nice try but not an answer to the question posed.
Wasn't that... last week?
I know you're going to quibble since you've added that 'not gaining access to any of the other units' (even though that isn't actually true for chaos allies either, since you can work around it with other faction keywords like Nurgle or Tzeentch)
For varying degrees of taking things away, but convoluted allies rules involving other books, see also Leman Russ Exterminators, Stormtroopers, Inquisition in general, Assassins, Basilisks, Daemons, Harlequins, Ynnari, assorted artillery pieces (mole mortars, rapiers, etc), robots... hmm. That seems like enough
Are you talking about Brood Brothers getting changed from 4 units in the GSC Codex to the entire Guard Codex being an option that has rules interactions with GSC while still maintaining Orders and 100% of its roster and equipment? Plus its not quibble to expect people to answer the question instead of cherry-picking which bits they want to answer.
But so far, none of the things you have listed fill the criteria of the question I posed. Nice try though.
Splitting Grey Knights and Inquisition?
Splitting Sisters and Inquisition?
Splitting Deathwatch and Inquisition? I mean just retconning Deathwatch to not be tied to Inquisition but they never made a book...
Chaos cultists mutants etc. who have continually wandered into and out of CSM or supported rules in general?
Splitting Harlequins and E/DE (not clear how this will pan out in 9th I think?)
Again, none of those Codexes were in the situation of taking from Codex A as the main list and only being allowed a single entry from Codex B.
For a general reply to all three of you, read the question again and actually read it this time.
As for the Greater Possessed thing;
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 23:10:47
spiralingcadaver wrote: Ok my turn. Write the question again and actually write it coherently this time if no one got it.
Seems perfectly coherent to me but sure.
When has GW ever written a Codex (A), removed a unit/units and placed them into a separate Codex (B), and indicated that said unit/units that are now in Codex B can still be used in a list taken from Codex A but not a single other unit from Codex B, forcing you to buy Codex B for potentially a single unit.
For example, removing Plague Marines from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, placing them into Codex: Death Guard, and saying CSM can still take Plague Marines but not any other unit from DG and you have to buy Codex: DG to use Plague Marines.
When has this ever happened?
If this seems like a very confusing and stupid question, that's because it is. It is the situation that Kid_Kyoto said they believed was something GW would do and I'm a little bit tired of people just making up BS to be mad about.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/27 01:18:53
Assassins- I know that they were in one Codex then they were dropped from it only to get a mini codex of their own that said that they could be used in the new version of the codex that they were originally in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 00:00:51
Which Assassins book is that? I've found the 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed books, and I know they were folded into Grey Knights in 5th Ed then became a PDF list in 6th where they could be added to any Imperial force. I don't think it would be related to the 3rd Ed Daemonhunters or Witchhunters books since (unless my info is wrong) they were released after the 3rd Ed Assassins book (which was surprising to learn was 24 pages long for an army that consisted of 4 units).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 00:08:17
Well, my view is that if GW can release Tsons as a book of its own with such a small unit range, then they can very do that with either Emperor's children or World Eaters. It all depends on their whim and fancy really.
Like Tsons basically just had rubrics, occult terminators and Magnus as distinct models. The rest like Mutalith Beasts and Tzangors are from AOS.
So, World Eaters is easier because we already have plastic Berserkers. We just need Red butcher terminators and Angron (if you want a big center piece). They can then pick one or two units from AOS Khorne and they are done, just like with Tsons. In fact, they can skip releasing Angron and it would still be fine. I don't insist I need to have Angron leading my world eaters. I am fine with Kharn if they make his new rules bad ass.
Emperor's Children can be done too. At a bare minimum they just need to have a new Noise Marine kit. To be honest, I don't think Noise terminators have been a big part of what defines Emperor's Children. Its mainly just the noise marines. Maybe release a new Emperor's Children Character kit and we are done. It doesn't even have to be Fulgrim.
In fact, even if they did release Angron or Fulgrim, I am not sure it would make any difference to the meta. Because big daemon primarch models die so easily on the tabletop these days. And they will die even faster when the new Tau comes out. Yay to our centerpiece model getting deleted by two shots from a railgun.
