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Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Northumberland

I mean it seems a bit weird for them to give that really obvious hint and it not to be about the Demiurg. We know from the lore that is how the Tau got their ion technology.


On a slightly related note: I wonder where the League will end up in the GW store headers? I guess they will be under Xenos armies, because they surely won't be under Imperial.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Olthannon wrote:
I mean it seems a bit weird for them to give that really obvious hint and it not to be about the Demiurg. We know from the lore that is how the Tau got their ion technology.


On a slightly related note: I wonder where the League will end up in the GW store headers? I guess they will be under Xenos armies, because they surely won't be under Imperial.


Must be Xenos, the imperium wouldn’t be happy to know that the leagues are selling the Tau superior weapons.

I expect the biggest opposition to the LOV would be the imperial cult as I doubt the LOV have any love for the emperor and seem to be fairly logical in their approach to other species
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





mrFickle wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:
I mean it seems a bit weird for them to give that really obvious hint and it not to be about the Demiurg. We know from the lore that is how the Tau got their ion technology.


On a slightly related note: I wonder where the League will end up in the GW store headers? I guess they will be under Xenos armies, because they surely won't be under Imperial.


Must be Xenos, the imperium wouldn’t be happy to know that the leagues are selling the Tau superior weapons.

I expect the biggest opposition to the LOV would be the imperial cult as I doubt the LOV have any love for the emperor and seem to be fairly logical in their approach to other species


Yeah I'd expect so -they might ally with the imperium but they seem to stand apart and they don't seem to be aligned with the Imperial cult. But in the past they were independent too but still adopted the imperial cult to ease cooperation with the imperium. But then again the Imperium is depicted very differently since then. I'm hoping for Xenos or Other classification, I'd rather they weren't under the Imperium.
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





Honestly them being a force that can ally with like orks and tau would be really fun, orks would love someone they can krump with again, rip ally matrix.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







If they follow anything almost slightly like the original Squat fluff, there will be no allying with Orks

Even as a dwarf archetype, no ork fraternising.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





These guys aren’t really dwarfs, imo. They’re short maybe, but not dwarves by any stretch. Just kinda really short humans who like tech.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







And mining… sounds like dwarfs to me

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




I don't think it's far out there to assume at least one ancestor core that holds a millenia old grudge against Orks because those greenskins stole a pretty hammer 15000 years ago.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
These guys aren’t really dwarfs, imo. They’re short maybe, but not dwarves by any stretch. Just kinda really short humans who like tech.

That is the definition of a dwarf, in either context.
They are definitely dwarf inspired, and the old fluff for them had them at odds with Orks.
Also just think about it; why would they ever ally with Orks, who would want to constantly fight them, destroy their Ancestor core and steal their tech? There's a reason why the Orks don't really have allies.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/05/25 09:47:20


What I have
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Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I hope they don’t carry over the squat/ork grudge.

This is from a time before Orks became a genetic weapon, programmed to love fighting and just go off and do it. Bearing a grudge against them is like being angry at the tide for coming in. It’s not interesting anymore.

I’d much rather that they had a big grudge against the nids and do something with that whole speculation point. It would be good if the LOV, maybe using years of ancestors cores proceeding power, have learned something about the nids motivation and history etc and have a bit of a mission to get them them out the galaxy.
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
These guys aren’t really dwarfs, imo. They’re short maybe, but not dwarves by any stretch. Just kinda really short humans who like tech.

That is the definition of a dwarf, in either context.
They are definitely dwarf inspired, and the old fluff for them had them at odds with Orks.
Also just think about it; why would they ever ally with Orks, who would want to constantly fight them, destroy their Ancestor core and steal their tech? There's a reason why the Orks don't really have allies.


My entire point is that they’re trying to claim all the dwarf stuff but not really doing much to actually achieve it. Have you seen the beards on the lads, they’re pale shadows of what a real dwarvish beard should be.
Plus as I’ve pointed out they must have some sort of relation, their model designers ripped the suspension designs on on hover trike right from the megatrakk

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA


These guys aren't Dwarves, they're midgets...

They SHOULD hate orks, carrying a grudge is kind of a very DWARF thing to do.

Other than them being shorter of stature than baseline humans, not too much DWARF stuff going on
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




mrFickle wrote:
I hope they don’t carry over the squat/ork grudge.

This is from a time before Orks became a genetic weapon, programmed to love fighting and just go off and do it. Bearing a grudge against them is like being angry at the tide for coming in. It’s not interesting anymore.

I’d much rather that they had a big grudge against the nids and do something with that whole speculation point. It would be good if the LOV, maybe using years of ancestors cores proceeding power, have learned something about the nids motivation and history etc and have a bit of a mission to get them them out the galaxy.


So you don't like a grudge against a Bioweapon, instead they should have a grudge against a different Bioweapon?

Orks have individuality, you can hold a grudge against a tribe or a certain Waaaghboss that destroyed your worlds. Tyranids though? You can hate their race but there's no single entity you could hate, and even if Old one Eye killed your beloved best clonefriend, once you kill him he'll come back and kill your new cloned friend once more .
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Valhallans are pretty good at holding a grudge against Orks. Armageddon Ork Hunters are probably pretty grudgy as well.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

In universe I doubt everyone knows about the Orks' origins. That's more out of universe knowledge.
The Eldar and the Necrons probably know because they were around then, but I doubt they go around dropping lore dumps on people.

But yeah, you can totally hold a grudge against an animal or a natural disaster.
Just ask Ahab.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/25 20:59:01


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yarrick sure is an idiot for such a grudge against a bioweapon.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Lord Damocles wrote:
Yarrick sure is an idiot for such a grudge against a bioweapon.


I thought yarrick had a grudge against thrakka specifically.

Besides many good points have been raised against my poorly thought through comment but I still think space dwarves grudge against space Orks is a bit hack. And something different would be more interesting
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





You know what, I think the new vibe they’re going for with squats would work better as random humans coming from outside the scope of the general 40k space area, they try to use the dwarf vibe despite not tying to it at all.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Northumberland

I dunno, my beard was long and grey and my grudgebook hadseveral appendices.



I think they look pretty Dwarfy to my eyes.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut





Not wanting to derail or necro a thread, but I finally found the lore blurb that mentioned the Squats seceding from the Imperium. I am baffled that when discussed, this little blurb of text was never mentioned, since it adds an interesting twist on their original timeline.

Codex Imperial Guard 2nd Edition - pg. 8 - Abhuman Regiments - released in 1995.

The Departmento Munitorium recruits from all worlds in the Imperium regardless of human type. As a result the Imperial Guard includes Ogryns as well as Ratlings. Nowadays there no Squat Stronghold planets in the Imperium itself, the last having seceded during the Age of Apostacy.


As far as I know, this was the final word on them before they got removed in an official publication.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Segersgia wrote:
Not wanting to derail or necro a thread, but I finally found the lore blurb that mentioned the Squats seceding from the Imperium. I am baffled that when discussed, this little blurb of text was never mentioned, since it adds an interesting twist on their original timeline.

Codex Imperial Guard 2nd Edition - pg. 8 - Abhuman Regiments - released in 1995.

The Departmento Munitorium recruits from all worlds in the Imperium regardless of human type. As a result the Imperial Guard includes Ogryns as well as Ratlings. Nowadays there no Squat Stronghold planets in the Imperium itself, the last having seceded during the Age of Apostacy.


As far as I know, this was the final word on them before they got removed in an official publication.


This is an interesting little nugget, we still need to know if there’s a difference between the squats of 2nd Ed and the new LOV. I think LOV is wiping the slate clean personally especially as the squats have to keep their AI a secret which wouldn’t have happened if there were any of the LOV actually part of the imperium. Also one would assume they would have had to worship the emperor in some way which doesn’t look like something the LOV would do.

We’ve just seen the Ironkin which are sentient automata and treated equally in society. I suspect we will see hints that the ironkin are related to the men of iron and perhaps the LOV treated them with kindness where humanity treated them as slaves which is why they turned on one group and not the other. But it would suggest that the split happened way way back.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

New lore article:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

Short version: the squats have limited AI robots.

Longer version: they have limited AI robots that are used in a support role on the field of battle (and other areas of society, but they are getting tabletop models). They are intelligent enough to be considered full Kin of the Leagues (ie full citizens with all the rights and responsibilities that entails).


They have other uses of them as well, notably they have AI that can act as a form of navigator, which neatly side-steps the problems of "do they need psykers for warp travel?" Im guessing these AI nav-comps were the original solution to warp navigation before the gene-splicing of the Navigator genes.

Its intresting to see the similarities in the design to the Admech Kastellen robots, and indeed the now "Lost" Heresy types. clearly a shared heritiage.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






UK

 Segersgia wrote:
Not wanting to derail or necro a thread, but I finally found the lore blurb that mentioned the Squats seceding from the Imperium. I am baffled that when discussed, this little blurb of text was never mentioned, since it adds an interesting twist on their original timeline.

Codex Imperial Guard 2nd Edition - pg. 8 - Abhuman Regiments - released in 1995.

The Departmento Munitorium recruits from all worlds in the Imperium regardless of human type. As a result the Imperial Guard includes Ogryns as well as Ratlings. Nowadays there no Squat Stronghold planets in the Imperium itself, the last having seceded during the Age of Apostacy.


As far as I know, this was the final word on them before they got removed in an official publication.


Just had a look at my PDF of it and yes it does - and on p82 they mention this:

"The Squats of the Homeworlds are a proud and independent
race that evolved from mankind. They are divided into many
rival Leagues. Although Squats and the Imperium have fought
long wars in the past, the most powerful Leagues are now
firmly allied with the Imperium. At the time of writing this
Codex is planned for future release.
You may include troops chosen from the Squats Codex"

That does sound a bit like a thread they're pulling on

Skinflint Games- war gaming in the age of austerity

http://www.skinflintgames.co.uk

 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

Design choices such as beards and proportions aside, this is the thorough treatment that Squats deserved to originally get.

Of the same kind the Eldar got during Rogue Trader:

We are at last getting fantasy Dwarfs in space, who are much more than just that.

Asteroid mining, clunky AI, the whole shebang. At last the Games Workshop design studio was inspired by a vision for Squats.

Remember that Squats were sidelined during 2nd edition, despite selling reasonably well, because the studio folks had no good ideas for them. Unlike, for instance, Eldar.

They felt that biker Dwarfs in space who hated Orks were too lacklustre, too close to their fantasy counterpart, without a driving vision, and thus they put Squats in fallow.

Which in hindsight was the correct decision, because now the current studio crew has a vision for Squats. As refreshingly loosely based on their fantasy archetype, yet being something far more, as Eldar were to High Elves during the Rogue Trader era. And I say this as a fan of the original Squats; much as I like them, they were also always lacking something essential in their background to tick properly. And yes, I will convert whatever Leagues of Votann models I add to my Squat army to be more Dwarfy, especially with big beards and runes and Viking ornaments. And 80s Rogue Trader Squat stuff. And Ork trophies.

The current GW studio has hands down surprised me delightfully with how good of a vision for 40k worldbuilding they possess: Just look at the Adeptus Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, new Sisters of Battle units, everything in Necromunda and now Squats. This isn't just an endless repetitive codex cycle of ever more Space Marine releases. It's an actual exploration of the galaxy, with plastic kits to boot. And it's not a shoddy exploration, but a thought-through one.

What a great time to be alive: The GW studio has turned freewheeling creative again, not unlike the Rogue Trader days, and they are expanding the setting true to its spirit, without breaking the overarching themes (with a caveat that the ongoing Primarch return plot may risk to break it; we'll see). You cannot reasonably expect the Warhammer 40'000 setting to be in such good hands after 35 years of personnel rotation and risk of picking up outside influences for the worse. We'd better count ourselves lucky.

Let's be clear: Long live the current Games Workshop studio!

This message was edited 24 times. Last update was at 2022/06/08 11:18:22


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree that the current GW team are doing a great job in terms of the look and feel of the 40k universe, expanding it and making it feel less like a universe full of space marines.

not everything is to my liking but you can please everyone all of the time.

I don't buy a lot of black library as their books tend to be so hit and miss in terms of being a good read but I assume there will be a series exploring the back ground of the LOV and I think I will have to get it.

I think there's a good opportunity for some dark humour with the ancestor cores, e.g. its taken so long to provide an answer they forgot what the question was (not original I know)
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Yep, I think it's fantastic. The new lore/designs seems really well thought out with a good bit of depth. Like how they are translating the feel of dwarfs into a space based race as a very unique culture. The linking in to past/existing lore looks great and the design references look really solid and fresh too. They did similar with the Kharadrons, but look to have taken even that approach a few notches. We have seen so little relatively speaking but it all seems pretty great.
I'm looking froward to seeing what the Black Library come out with too- I'll definitely pick up any LoV books.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

@mrFickle: Haha, now that's a fun idea!

Yes, the Kharadrons are excellent Squats straight out of the box:

Spoiler:


I might add that Rogue Trader Squats have good style. Mining helmets with sound dampeners, quilted armour and fun bikers. Aesthetically they were as solid a start as for any faction at the time, and hopefully we will see more of them, as per the Necromunda Squats. It was the background that was lacking when GW took stock of their 40k creations in the 1990s, and realized that something essential was missing, and they had no good ideas at the time. The last hurrah of the original Squat range was in Epic 40'000, complete with land trains and other large warmachines.



Moreover, hobbyist conversions, homebrew 3D-sculpts and additional third party manufacturers may well come cater to different styles of Space Dwarfs, so even if the visual direction of GW does not appeal, a Squat fan will still get an army with rules and bonkers, polished background, regardless of what models and style one sticks to. No need to proxy it anymore. And the GW studio has come up with concepts for hobbyists to further develop, CDO style, if they are so inclined.

As to hatred of Orks, I hope we'll see a good amount of it. After all, those pesky Greenskins want to tow away the League's staked mining asteroids to chuck on a planet?! Grudge on that one.

Also, the return of the Squats was foretold in the very last TTS video released after the IP debacle last summer. Lo and behold its glory.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 09:13:22


   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





@karakNornClansman you are so right about the squats getting what eldar got in RT/2nd ed. I remember being so excited by the Eldar Craftwords when they arrived and I have similar feelings for the Leagues.
When the Kharadron arrived in AoS I was gobsmacked by how fantastically different they were and yet still dwarfs. I also thought they took the same approach to squats I'd be all over them and it looks like they have and then some!

Love that animation! Thats kind of what I'd ike squats to be -their own thing, independent and nor slaved to Xenos/Imperium/Chaos. I agree that there is plenty for design room for Alt sculpts to fit different tastes - with new rules they will all easier to use and a single design of squats was never going to please everyone. Personally I'm loving the new designs and also looking forward to kitbashing with Kharadrons.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






So, the latest Warhammer Community post has the following info on Necromundan Squats.

Warhammer Community Sez wrote: Let’s clear one thing up. Unlike the Leagues of Votann, these guys are called Squats. They came to Necromunda as a clean-up crew in the wake of the Horus Heresy, and they’ve been here ever since – what can we say, the Heresy needed a lot of cleaning up. In the millenia since, the Ironhead Mining Clans have had minimal contact with their cousins in the galactic core.


This very much chimes with my speculation that we might yet see different types of Squat/Kin/Kyn in the background.

Example in the real world? Europeans, Australia and New Zealand, United States of America.

Via colonisation, Australia, New Zealand and the USA (and Canada) share common cultural roots. Yet, each are now very much their own distinct culture, largely United by language, and to a lesser degree religions.

And that’s with just a few mere centuries of existence.

Now, let’s not discuss my example further for fear of heading into P&R.

With Necromundan Squats having been there for millennia? How much, for want of a more accurate term, cultural drift might we think exists?

The article also mentions their greenhorns are a “mere” 40 or 50 years of experience, suggesting they’re long lived by human standards. Which is likely to affect their generation gap accordingly.

Add in the Squat/Dwarf archetype of staunch traditionalists and it may not be quite as far as we might easily expect - but I’m willing to predict it’ll still be significant.

It also makes me think I could’ve been right that Demiurg are another offshoot, their physical differences being less mutation, and more adaptation for particular environs. Certainly if the Imperium hasn’t seen much of the whole species other than Necromundan Squats, having a specialist pool of “wasn’t us, Guv, honest! Don’t even look like us Guv!” folk for Trading Opportunities We Would Rather Deny Because Pissing Off The Imperium Isn’t A Terribly Good Idea.

Time of course will tell. I reserve the right that if I am right, to at all points in the future reference this post as proof I’m not always an idiot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 18:32:28


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Longtime Dakkanaut





What this tells us is that the squats on necromunda must be breeding or have brought the cloning tech used by LOV with them after HH. But I think the cloning tech would be heretical and an excuse to attack some abhumans.

So possibly the shift to cloning by the LOV happened post HH.

If squats, demiurg and LOV are all prospering offshoots of the same species then they really are hardy compared to other species we see
   
 
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