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It’s….just the pair of them. Together. Ugggghhhhhh.

The movie at least made me appreciate the talent and craft that went into the stage performances.

The only actor who came out of Cata without embarrassing himself was Ian McKellan.

Also, it’s weird that the film has all the characters essentially nude and yet feels disturbingly neutered compared to the stage play. The cats’ lack of sensual contact t makes certain lines nonsensical, such as Grizabella begging “touch me” from Memory.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The movie at least made me appreciate the talent and craft that went into the stage performances.

The only actor who came out of Cata without embarrassing himself was Ian McKellan.

I think Steven McRae deserves some credit - I get the impression they didn't know he had a musical background (in tap dancing!) and subsequently his number is the only one that maintains a consistent tempo- turning a random song in the middle of the show (that is one of the first ones cut for time) into the best number in the whole movie, despite the editing and cinematography trying their hardest to ruin it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Also, it’s weird that the film has all the characters essentially nude and yet feels disturbingly neutered compared to the stage play. The cats’ lack of sensual contact t makes certain lines nonsensical, such as Grizabella begging “touch me” from Memory.

I especially love the way they butchered Mr. Mistoffelees - in the show it's all about the normally aloof Tugger gushing on and on about how cool and awesome Mistoffelees is for 6 continuous minutes but the studio is worried it might be construed as too gay (then why are you adapting Cats?!) so it had to be completely reworked into the way-way-more-appropriater relationship of Mistoffelees being a shy Johnny Depp type fixated on the kitten played by Francesca Hayward.

It's very easy to see theater as something of a "live" film performance but they're very different beasts that don't translate well. That's become increasingly true as film has largely won out in terms of standard story presentation and theater has largely found a place alongside it by focusing more on its ability to interact with the audience and make each performance unique. Cats is definitely big on that and its continued success largely comes from the ability to focus on different characters every night and improvise to keep the sense of surprise each time you see it.

 LunarSol wrote:
There have been tons of attempts to explain it away over the years, but M.Night is adamant that its just water.

And, not for nothing, a quality baseball bat with an MLB-tier swing behind it.

FWIW though it did take more than one glass of water for the alien in the house to go down, we might be able to assume they have a degree of tolerance since it took one to the shoulder and managed to get up out of it with just a nasty red burn and it got still more splashed on it from smashed glasses and such but didn't actually die until it got floored by the bat and multiple glasses poured on its face.

But again, we're speculating on the aliens' biology, motives, and technology which may be a trap, because Signs spends so much time juxtaposing people reading books about aliens or theorizing what the aliens are like against actual scenes with them where none of those theories line up. The only actual things we know about the aliens at the end of the day are that the UFOs exist, the aliens on the ground can be locked in or out of places by locks and barricades, and water burns them (in a hydrogen peroxide way as opposed to a 1980s movie acid kind of way). Why they came, where they came from, whether any world government still exists, whether most of the human race still exists - all speculation we don't have the answers for.

It's kinda like The Road -

I totally forgot about Skimbleshanks. Yeah, he might have even come off better than Ian. That was the one musical number that mostly lived up to its potential.

The Mistoffelees bit might also have worked if not for the way it kept stopping and starting. The audience in my theater sang along with that and the Skimbleshanks songs, but you could hear the confusion and laughter during Mistoffelees.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

Mind, War of the Worlds stories have a tradition of kind of lame endings, so this fits in (not necessarily a good thing).

I don't know. I expect if we ever start encountering alien biospheres, we're going to have more problems dealing with the microbial life than larger creatures we can easily see, shoot, and kill.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
James Corden….I mean…..have….have they not seen anything those cretins have vomited out into the world?

I quite liked Gavin and Stacey though honestly the series did drop a few notches as the focus shifted from Gavin and Stacey to Smithy and Ness.


Halloween 3. This movie is not good. Sure if you want to throw it in the “so bad it's good column” I can accept that. But more and more people are championing this movie as some great work that was unfairly maligned because of its title. Those people are either purposefully being contrarians or are simply mistaken.

I first watched this movie with friends in the early 2000s so I was well aware that there was no Michael in it. I was willing to let that not affect my judgment of the film, especially after seeing Busta Rhymes kick Michael through a window. Maybe no Michael Myers could be a good thing. This movie was no good thing. After spending an hour and a half watching it I then spent the next 3 hours arguing about how crap this movie was and that it didn't make sense.

The basic premise is that druids in America steal a giant rock from Stonehenge to use it in a ritual to kill kids via tv commercial. I’m guessing just American kids since it doesn't seem that they were selling the masks anywhere else and I'm sure the rest of the world doesn't get many American commercials. The plan is thwarted by a drunk and womanizing doctor (no offense Mr. Atkins, I still think you are great) who stumbles across it accidentally and decides to investigate because that's what drunk womanizing doctors are wont to do.

Okay, the whole Stonehenge rock concept just doesn't work. Sure you have the whole how did they get it there question, but I'm more bothered by the timing and logistics of it all. The stone had been missing for 9 months. Take out about a month for travel time across the ocean and the US they have had the stone at the factory for 8 months. That only gives them 8 months to create and implement the whole druidic microchip process. That isn't much in the way of research and development and everything else to bring a working prototype to mass production. Considering that they need millions of these masks to meet the apparent popularity of them that allows for even less time. The factory does not look to be that automated and there doesn't seem to be that many workers. The real kicker comes in the logistics of it all. If you have ever worked in manufacturing, or even retail, you know that items will sit in a warehouse or distribution center for weeks or longer waiting to be sent to the individual retail points. Once arrived its possible they will sit in the back for another few weeks waiting to go out on the floor to be sold. All of this combined shows that there is no way the masks can be developed, produced, and shipped to retail in just 9 months.

I'll also point out that on Halloween they are still in the factory making the masks. Why? I seriously doubt many people will be wanting to buy one after millions of kids died. Likewise there are vendors showing up days before Halloween to pick up orders that should have been in their shops weeks before if they were planning on selling them for Halloween.

There are about a dozen other issues with this movie that have nothing to do with the fact that Michael Myers isn't in it. However they all stem from the fact that 9 months is not enough time to steal and transport the Stonehenge stone, create and develop a death microchip that responds to tv signals, produce the micro chips in the quantities that the movie is suggesting, and have them distributed to kids across America. Oh and as a final thing, why are Celtic druids hanging out in America with the goal to kill American kids? I mean they could they not have just stayed in the UK and done the same thing there but with a lot less hassle?

Ha! Yeah, why can't they just work in England and not tote the rock to the US? Yep, scratch your head on that one.

Some big discrepancies in lots of plots and not understanding why something happens can break the plot, no doubt. I was originally referring to a plot that simply no longer works due to its own stupidity.

 LunarSol wrote:
There have been tons of attempts to explain it away over the years, but M.Night is adamant that its just water.

Well, he is entitled to his opinion on the film...

Have we brought up how Indy’s presence in Raiders of the Lost Ark doesn’t affect the final outcome of the movie, other than potentially keeping Marion alive, as there’s no guarantee she’d have survived the Nepal encounter?

/shrug
That isn't really a problem with the plot.

I'm more creeped out that he's a thief, desecrator and confessed child molester and yet also the 'hero.' Sure the first two are part and parcel of early 'antiquities' collectors, but the latter is in there for no reason at all.

Wait…when did Indy say he did that last bit?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait…when did Indy say he did that last bit?

He didn't actually stand up and say "My name is Indiana Jones and I am a child molester". But the script of RotLA put Marion Ravenwood's age at 25 - so 15 years old at the time of their earlier relationship (when Indy would have been 27). 'Fans' are keen to point out that Dr Jones had an affair with an under-age girl.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait…when did Indy say he did that last bit?

Google “George Lucas Indiana Jones Once she’s sixteen or seventeen it isn’t interesting any more”.

Well that’s unpleasant!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait…when did Indy say he did that last bit?

Google “George Lucas Indiana Jones Once she’s sixteen or seventeen it isn’t interesting any more”.

Ugh. I didn't know about that! :-(

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Have we brought up how Indy’s presence in Raiders of the Lost Ark doesn’t affect the final outcome of the movie, other than potentially keeping Marion alive, as there’s no guarantee she’d have survived the Nepal encounter?

Of course there is the entire episode on Big Bang Theory on this exact topic.

I was meaning specifically this thread

 MDSW wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Have we brought up how Indy’s presence in Raiders of the Lost Ark doesn’t affect the final outcome of the movie, other than potentially keeping Marion alive, as there’s no guarantee she’d have survived the Nepal encounter?

Of course there is the entire episode on Big Bang Theory on this exact topic.

Except it’s not true; the Nazis follow Indy to Nepal, because they don’t know where Ravenwood is. Now, admittedly, after that he doesn’t influence the outcome, but the story never would have happened without him.

Still think that without Indy the baddies may have not found the Ark in a reasonable time frame, as they were digging in the wrong place due to only having a half copy of the head piece and the digsite looks huge and isn't there the implication that High Command is getting impatient with the lack of progress (and as we know naughty regimes generally deal with failings in a fatal sort of way)

 Jadenim wrote:

 MDSW wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Have we brought up how Indy’s presence in Raiders of the Lost Ark doesn’t affect the final outcome of the movie, other than potentially keeping Marion alive, as there’s no guarantee she’d have survived the Nepal encounter?

Of course there is the entire episode on Big Bang Theory on this exact topic.

Except it’s not true; the Nazis follow Indy to Nepal, because they don’t know where Ravenwood is. Now, admittedly, after that he doesn’t influence the outcome, but the story never would have happened without him.

You are right!!! You get a star for today!!!

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Still think that without Indy the baddies may have not found the Ark in a reasonable time frame, as they were digging in the wrong place due to only having a half copy of the head piece and the digsite looks huge and isn't there the implication that High Command is getting impatient with the lack of progress (and as we know naughty regimes generally deal with failings in a fatal sort of way)

They only had half the amulet due to Indy’s direct intervention in Nepal. No Indy there, they most likely walk away with the amulet, and not just….an artist’s impression.

On them following Indy to Nepal, I’ll need to watch it again.

Its a quick shot of Evil Henchman Guy sitting a few rows back on the airplane, hiding behind a newspaper, iirc. Then they jump to the travel map.

Now they don't show the legwork of one of the US agents being a double agent or someone following them to their meeting with Indy. (or however they get to the point they know they need to follow random professor/thief to Nepal), but its not really that kind of movie.
----

One of the more annoying things about Indiana Jones is he knows far too much (especially for his age, and the period). South?/Central? American tribes, ancient Egypt, Hebrew & Christian Egypt (I'll forgive the grail, since that was his father's obsession, to the point that some knowledge would have been unavoidable), India, random conquistadors and whatever else in the alien movie...

Pick a specialization. Jack of all trades archaeology makes no sense. The languages, customs, burial practices and etc aren't transferable.

Or that when he legs it in the famous opening scene, it’s to his buddy’s two seater plane. Despite he started off with two other buddies, one of who, was the treacherous Doctor Octopus!

Yep, I am sure he expected his local guides to disappear into the jungle when he was finished, but the locals obviously were having none of that!

Voss wrote:
Its a quick shot of Evil Henchman Guy sitting a few rows back on the airplane, hiding behind a newspaper, iirc. Then they jump to the travel map.

Now they don't show the legwork of one of the US agents being a double agent or someone following them to their meeting with Indy. (or however they get to the point they know they need to follow random professor/thief to Nepal), but its not really that kind of movie.

The film starts with the intercepted communiqué that the Nazis were looking for Ravenwood. Indy must have been reasonably well known at this point to have the whole rivalry with Belloch and be funded by “the museum” on his adventures; if he was known to have studied under Ravenwood it wouldn’t be unreasonable to put a tail on him

Voss wrote:
One of the more annoying things about Indiana Jones is he knows far too much (especially for his age, and the period). South?/Central? American tribes, ancient Egypt, Hebrew & Christian Egypt (I'll forgive the grail, since that was his father's obsession, to the point that some knowledge would have been unavoidable), India, random conquistadors and whatever else in the alien movie...

Pick a specialization. Jack of all trades archaeology makes no sense. The languages, customs, burial practices and etc aren't transferable.

As much as I agree with the reality of what you’re saying, one of the biggest weaknesses to me of the (non-existent ) fourth film is that Indy doesn’t know what’s going on a lot of the time. In the other films he is the audience’s guide and very early on it will start with a “oh no, they’re trying to find “x” and that will let them rule/destroy the world”, which then gives you a reason to want to stop them.

I still enjoy Crystal Skull, though I fully acknowledge you could replace Mutt more or less entirely. Even then it’s just the bad CGI monkey screen. The fencing duel I actually rather enjoy.

I felt like Crystal Skull wasn't a good film on two fronts, from what I recall

1) The plot was just a touch silly/over the top. The previous Indy adventures were fairly tame overall in their impacts, even opening the Ark only has an impact in a small area - now we've got aliens and massive valleys being destroyed and its all just "turned up to 11". Nuclear tests and fridges.
It has this over the top aspect that I feel just saps the element of realism in the film

2) Indie is "wrong" for the role. Ford is getting old and whilst he's also playing an old character in the film, its all adding up to a lot of situations where he's not really doing very well.
I feel like the role doesn't fit the character and, much like Starwars 7 and Luke Skywalker, it suffers from the fact that this character we knew and understood has changed dramatically off camera. Plus the plot, pacing and style of film doesn't seem to fit his more matured age.

Eg I felt like he fit the role and performance way better in something like Cowboys and Aliens.

If we can include video games as well as movies; the later Halo games were crap to begin with but had some pretty big plot holes.

Halo 3: Humanity has been pushed back almost to the point of extinction. All we have left are a handful of UNSC Frigates, and Hood suggests it may be a last stand/blaze of glory situation, that's fair. Later on at the Ark, High Charity arrives at the worst time possible and starts a Flood infestation, forcing you to activate the new Installation 4 to wipe them and the Gravemind out.

Halo 4: Despite humanity being pushed back almost to the point of extinction, less than 5 years later they seem to have amassed a pretty big empire spanning multiple planets, they've found the other Installations and are researching them, and they've also somehow built the largest, most spectacular ship ever seen.

We're also presented with the Didact, who appears over Earth in his even more spectacular ship and begins to wipe out a random US city. He's a Forerunner who can literally shift parts of this ship around to form whatever tool he needs, but he doesn't even bother to lock a single door to stop you getting to him, or even getting rid of the door alltogether.

Halo Wars 2: Despite the activation of Installation 4 in Halo 3, the Flood are still active and present on the Ark.

Halo Infinite: Had this issue with the opening trailer/cutscene. In a blatant ripoff of the opening scene of Endgame, we see the whiny pilot watching a hologram of his daughter. It then cuts to him sometime later on where he's been stuck inside a dropship long enough to grow a beard, which we find out later was actually 6 months. How is he alive? How has he found enough food, water and air to last 6 months? The toilet must be overflowing with 6 months' worth of crap by now.