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If you wanted AP to be more relevant to penetrating tank armor, you could always do something like S + D6 - AP, treating AP- as '7'.

Obviously this would require shifting armor values downwards, and it would also exacerbate differences between weapons. An autocannon at 3+D6 would be a lot less capable than a lascannon at 7+D6. Whether that's a feature or a bug is up to you; personally I felt like the old AV system did a perfectly fine job working off of S alone (with special rules for AP- and AP1), until the hull point system was introduced and glancing vehicles to death became a viable strategy.

Without hull points, the system works, it just feels unintuitive that the AP stat is irrelevant, which creates bizarre edge cases where a Rupture Cannon eats Land Raiders for breakfast but sucks against anyone in power armor.

 Hellebore wrote:
For the current rules T and Sv for vehicles and monsters, you can apply old damage tables like so:

For each point on the die you roll over the needed value to wound, add 1 to the table (ie you need 4+ to wound and roll 6, add +2 to the table)

1 - glance
2 - shake
3 - weapon damage (-1 BS/WS to weapons)
4 - locomotion damaged (halve M)
5 - penetrating hit (+1d3 damage)
6+ - massive hit (+1D6 damage)


Roll to wound, roll to save, roll on damage table

I must point out that this sort of contingent roll is pretty alien to 40K. Normally your wound roll is wholly separate from the save roll is wholly separate from the damage result. It's a non-negligible paradigm shift to not only adopt contingent rolls, but also have a contingent sequence interrupted by the opponent taking a save in the middle. At bare minimum, it's a system you can't fast roll.

Fast rolling is only necessary for the ridiculous number of dice that 40k uses. Against vehicles you see far less successful wounds so it's not like you're having to keep track of a dozen dice to save against.

The game already uses contingent rolls in the form of critical hits, so it's not that hard.

But if it's too much for people, then you adopt that mechanism.


Monster/vehicle
If you score a critical wound on a model with this keyword, roll on the following table:

1-2 shaken, half move next turn
3-4 weapon glance, -1 ws bs next turn
5- damaging hit, +1d3 damage
6- penetrating hit, +1d6 damage

The easy fix to "Feels Bad" moments is just to be transparent I always tell my opponent up front what wraithguard's ability is because the ability is the gatcha to end all gatchas letting me shoot back when its shot once a battle round including command overwatch is really good. But this is a game where nothing is supposed to be secret if i ask my opponent they need to give me every detail on their datasheet and if i ask i should be told every strategem they have access to but what that also means is that if you dove in not considering information of which you can just ask and get you are the dumbass and im not going to just give up a win because you made a bad choice you have to have a back bone

not_a_newtsee wrote:
The easy fix to "Feels Bad" moments is just to be transparent I always tell my opponent up front what wraithguard's ability is because the ability is the gatcha to end all gatchas letting me shoot back when its shot once a battle round including command overwatch is really good. But this is a game where nothing is supposed to be secret if i ask my opponent they need to give me every detail on their datasheet and if i ask i should be told every strategem they have access to but what that also means is that if you dove in not considering information of which you can just ask and get you are the dumbass and im not going to just give up a win because you made a bad choice you have to have a back bone

Transparency is a good solution for "gotcha" feels bad moments. Unfortunately, there are feels bad moments/mechanics out there that are still unpleasant even if you know they're coming. For instance, pre-nerf strands of fate letting us literally automatically do a bunch of mortal wounds with wraith weapons and d-cannons felt pretty rotten even if you were perfectly aware that it was possible. Or failing a 3" charge because your dice came up snake eyes. It's not a surprise that you can roll snake eyes on 2d6, but it still feels bad because to have your melee randomly not get to make attacks and subsequently get wiped out on your opponent's turn.