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I personally like comp, just not this version, for all the reasons that have been stated (although I'm surprised more IG players aren't complaining, they get truly shafted in this comp system)

To make a workable and fair comp system, you need a seperate system for every codex. Period. The reason is that each codex is differant, emphasizing differant areas as their strengths. Marines have small numbers of models, each of whom is fairly effective, while an army such as IG requires 2 or 3 times as many models and weapons to accomplish the same effect becuase they don't hit as often and the troops carrying them aren't as durable. Why are IG donged for having more heavy weapons than marines? Why are they dinged for not being able to field fulll troops choices, but given an allowence for ordnance (which they shouldn't get)? Why are 3 leman russ demolishers more acceptable than 3 space marine vindicators, despite the fact that the weapons in question are every bit as effective and are located on tougher vehicles?

A couple other issues I have are infiltrate/deep strike. Why are these against comp, but dedicated transports are not? They accomplish the same task, sometimes less effectively than a transport would, especially as not all scenarios allow infiltrate/DS, but they ALL allow for transports. In point of fact, transports are not even counted against comp at all and in fact help with comp (by adding points to Troops). I'm not saying transports are bad so much as they are no better than deep striking and infiltrate. My Deathwing army whould take a huge hit to comp, becuase of deep strike and power fists and multiple saves, and yet the reason it should be mid-comp (all the rending weapons) has nothing to do with it.

In any good comp system, every army should be able to score perfect or almost perfect by taking the proper (supposedly underpowered) units. Under this system, it's simply not possible for some armies to score even close, despite the fact that they are not very powerful armies. That's where the problems arise. This comp system really doesn't limit the type of armies played, nor does really do what it is meant to do: give "weak" lists a bonus to make them comparable to "powerful" lists overall. It's just too specific about some things while not taking a lot of other things into account.

Would I play in a tournament with this com system in place? Yeah, sure, but I'd be pretty vocal to the judges about the inherent problems it has.

Mauleed wrote:
Anyone who supports comp for their wargame should have to play in a dress.

Anyone who believes *any* grown man who plays toy soldiers has room to comment on the masculinity of others has a serious mental disorder.

Might aswell get the organisers to "select" everyones army so it is fair and no one can get confused with dice provided by the organiser in a "Trouble" dice popper so there is no "lucky" dice.

For our tournaments we have an open slather policy of bring any list you like, codex, white dwarf, forgeworld, GW website as long as you have a copy of the rules and the correct figures no problem. Nearly all of the time a standard "codex" army wins and not the old vets who take FW vehicles and ork clan lists, but we play 1500pt tournies, and extra points are mainly for painting, basing and a background for your army. As one mans cheese is another mans balanced list, depending on what side of the fence you are on.

If a person is an arse it is him regardless of what list he plays with.

>>If a person is an arse it is him regardless of what list he plays with.

Sigged.

Mech Tau got a 34. and it wasn't all that optimized for MeQ...

My extremely sub-optimal, loses-most-games IG army got a 30. My much more effective DA list got a 36.

Anyone who believes *any* grown man who plays toy soldiers has room to comment on the masculinity of others has a serious mental disorder.

And any person who keeps degrading the HOBBY into 'toy soldiers' should be drug out into the street and beaten. I don't play 'toy soldiers'... I play a tabletop HOBBY wargame.

A: they ARE toy Soldiers.
B: Just because I play with them does not degrade my masculinity, if you believe that you might be a little insecure.


Comp is lame because it relies on other people?s interpretation on what is fair. I have a Crazy Idea, let?s write fair and balanced rules, and throw away comp. I'm sick of being penalized for being a jerk.

Anyone who believes *any* grown man who plays toy soldiers has room to comment on the masculinity of others has a serious mental disorder.

At least a few members here also particpate in what are perceived to be very masculine activities, such as power lifting, personal training, or even military careers.

Mauleed, whom you referenced in particular, can bench nearly 400 lbs.

Just something to mull the next time that you decide that the "grown men" here aren't all that masculine.

Just because I play with them does not degrade my masculinity, if you believe that you might be a little insecure.

Agreed but my response was directed to the original person who degraded the hobby in the first place in order to throw a dig at Ed. Why some people go out of their way to try and flame Mauleed is beyond me.

Posted By DaIronGob 08/14/2006 11:52 AM

Just because I play with them does not degrade my masculinity, if you believe that you might be a little insecure.

Agreed but my response was directed to the original person who degraded the hobby in the first place in order to throw a dig at Ed. Why some people go out of their way to try and flame Mauleed is beyond me.

It's how he makes himself feel better and to compensate for whatever shortcomings he posesses. After all, it is much easier to say "97% of miniature gamers are loosers except for me, of course!", sling mud and make other such digs than to provide any sort of constructive criticisms. :shrugs:

Posted By DaIronGob 08/14/2006 11:37 AM

Anyone who believes *any* grown man who plays toy soldiers has room to comment on the masculinity of others has a serious mental disorder.

And any person who keeps degrading the HOBBY into 'toy soldiers' should be drug out into the street and beaten. I don't play 'toy soldiers'... I play a tabletop HOBBY wargame.

Which consists of playing with toy soldiers.  Don't fight it, embrace your inner dork. 

Seriously most hobbies, when you really get down to it, are stupid and dorky (except full contact tiddlywinks cage match special edition of course).  But they are fun. 

Oh my inner dork is more than embraced much to my wife's chagrin.

Hobbies and collecting are all dorky to the jocks and 'cool' clique but then again I heard a pretty funny joke... fantasy football is to jocks what Dungeons and Dragons is to dorks.

 

Edit: Spelling.

I just had to post this, we all need to laugh every once in awhile at our selves. 

Yes, that is funny.

Trust me I used to be a 'Red Shirt' and I for one now know what it's like to be scorned by the jocks AND the dorks! lol.

Booyah.  A picture is indeed worth a thousand words.

Jocks.  There's something I haven't heard in a long time. They're dorks too. 

'Wow so you spent all day hitting that little ball around a field with a stick? What a waste of a perfectly good walk..."

 

Posted By DaIronGob 08/14/2006 11:52 AM

Why some people go out of their way to try and flame Mauleed is beyond me.

Am I the only one who thought this was amusing?

I think you are.

Darrian

That picture makes no sense. Why are Imperial Japanese marines advancing alongside a Soviet Russian tank unit?

I think the Japanese infantry is bravely assaulting the Soviet T-34's. If I were a betting man, and I am, I would bet that the Soviets will win that combat.

Darrian

So regardless of the Japanese and Soviets, we still think this comp system stinks right? Heh.

Playing an RTT/GT with that comp system is dumber than being a Japanese infantryman and assaulting 6 Soviet T-34's. I wish the organizers of "Capital Punishment" would wise-up and dump their heinous comp system. If they did, I would definitely drive all the way back up there to play.

Darrian

I did like what "capital Punishment" attempted to do but they did go overboard on their comp by severely handicapping armies such as Orks or Guard that take a boat load of models and still get stuck taking choices that noone in their right mind would take or impossibilities of tau or necrons maxing out troops with full troop squads.

Other armies are purely dependent on wargear or their tanks are monsterous creatures or the only heavy weapons they do have are ap 2 or 1. This comp system did have its bias towards marines and the rest of the armies chucking out comp for a good battle score.

I do belive in soft scores and having a system where Battle is 60% of the points and the other 40% in soft scores. This promotes what the hobby is all about. Painting, playing hard, both players having a fun time barring bad dice, and theme. That is what best overall should be; the culmination of all the aspects of the hobby.

I also belive that comp should not be such a big part of the scoring process as it should be at best 10% of the scores to prevent people who arent as openminded when it comes to armylists or bitter players trying to chipmunk others.

For those who voice their objections this is a tournament that they have graciously made possiable so they can play by whatever rules they feel fit to run by and we all have the freedom of not participating and with a poor turnout perhaps the organizers can then look what went wrong and try to appeal to the gamers.

Lastly to those who hate comp, sportsmanship, and other soft scores. This is a game about toy soldiers and winning isnt everything and you are not the next tactical genius. By the way ... playing in a dress sure does boost your sportsmanship.

I just think in a RTT it is about wining and while i do belive you need to have fun playing I don't think you should lose points for bringing a strong army.