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I know I want one. Was thinking the Crusader with AGC and RFBC. But now you guys have me thinking other options.

But I think from your discussion that spending 557 pts to have the crusader with AGC, Stormspear, and Thermal Cannon is probably better than spending the 540 on the crusader with the AGC and RFBC

I still feel like all the melee weapons except for the titanic feet are a waste.

My goals would be to have it tie up a side of the field as long as possible and get it into the shoot/charge/melee/fallback/shoot cycle

I have yet to see the RFBC do anything in a game to justify it's point cost. It's just too mediocre and random.

I am not really a fan of any of the dice roll number of attacks, dice roll number of hits, dice roll number of wounds weapons

Amen.

Jaynen wrote:I know I want one. Was thinking the Crusader with AGC and RFBC. But now you guys have me thinking other options.

But I think from your discussion that spending 557 pts to have the crusader with AGC, Stormspear, and Thermal Cannon is probably better than spending the 540 on the crusader with the AGC and RFBC

I still feel like all the melee weapons except for the titanic feet are a waste.

My goals would be to have it tie up a side of the field as long as possible and get it into the shoot/charge/melee/fallback/shoot cycle

In my opinion, the Stormspear is optional for the TC Crusader. Anyhow, I feel the 550 points can be a bit much; you want to make the opponent's decision-making calculus a bit more difficult by moving those 45 points into another Crawler.

The Feet are really good against everything but high-toughness, high-armor enemies. For this, you want a TC, Krak Missiles, or Gauntlet (which is 5 points to get a much more potent weapon).

Colonel Cross wrote:I have yet to see the RFBC do anything in a game to justify it's point cost. It's just too mediocre and random.

The RFBC is less random than the TC. But that works against its favor. You are spending a lot of points for something that is consistently mediocre, whereas the TC has moments where it absolutely murders hundreds of points in a single round of shooting.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I have yet to see the RFBC do anything in a game to justify it's point cost. It's just too mediocre and random.

I mainly use it for the high(ish) strength combined with the chance to get a good amount of shots at things. The high strength means wounding MEQ's easier and rolling 2d6 no matter the target is helpful when you want to pick off the last wounds on a rhino that your 3 cawl buffed neutron lasers Somehow failed to completely kill.

it's probably just a matter of taste for this weapon, as it has it's upsides and downsides like most of the other weapons.

I just run thermal, ironspear Crusader so I don't get punished TOO much if he dies as I use him offensivelly in melee.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just run thermal, ironspear Crusader so I don't get punished TOO much if he dies as I use him offensivelly in melee.

Iron...storm? Haha. How is that working for you though? I personally think the weapon is awkward. D6 low strength, low AP shots is very unreliable, especially against the 2 wound targets it's supposed to kill. I see it as essentially an overpriced mortar. Am I wrong?

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just run thermal, ironspear Crusader so I don't get punished TOO much if he dies as I use him offensivelly in melee.

Iron...storm? Haha. How is that working for you though? I personally think the weapon is awkward. D6 low strength, low AP shots is very unreliable, especially against the 2 wound targets it's supposed to kill. I see it as essentially an overpriced mortar. Am I wrong?

You point it at weak low-T units out of LoS that might be holding objectives. It is a very specific weapon for a specific job. Not the best option, but it is so cheap it can be an ok point filler option.

I can't wait to get my Knight(s) built and painted - now that the League I was in is over - and with me as Champion, no less! - I will have a chance to test out some options. First goal is the maxed out Crusader. RFBC, Gatling, Stormspear for the most firepower possible. It will also be a solid screen unit to augment my Dragoons, I think. So my artillery should be a wee bit safer.

So i have been working on my list for 2k and so far have the following, really love the idea of having a Knight with my Ad Mech so the hope is that it will get stuck into the opponents lines doing as much damage as possible while the Onagers and Ballistarii with Cawl put out a reliable damage. I just finished the Stryix as I had been running a Paladin before and I can switch back if I can't use Forge world models but the weapons seem cool and I love the look of the armor so I'll be happy to be able to run it. Just another knight to get and build to be able to run them as a army of their own. Maybe I might split the Dargoons into seperate squads so they can go for seperate objectives and I would have went with the Heavy Arc Rifle before on the Kataphrons as it was more shots but readinbg some reports of the Torsion Cannons and the TPD giving them some re-rolls I think I'll give them a go as well.

Battalion Detachment +3CP

HQ
Belisarius Cawl [ 250pts]

Tech-Priest Dominus [135pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Troops
Kataphron Breachers [183pts]
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon

Skitarii Rangers [78pts]
2x Ranger (Arc Rifle)
Ranger Alpha Galvanic rifle
4x Skitarii Ranger

Skitarii Vanguards [64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [ 64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)]
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Elites [160pts]

10x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [160pts]

Fast Attack [286pts]

Ironstrider Ballistarii [150pts]
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon.
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon

Sydonian Dragoons [136pts]
Sydonian Dragoon
Sydonian Dragoon

Heavy Support [276pts]

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array , Smoke Launchers
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array, Smoke Launchers

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
500pts

Questoris Knight Styrix : Graviton crusher , Volkite chieorovile . Hekaton siege claw w/ twin rad-cleanser

Total: [1998pts]

As I have four of the Kastelans models with flamers and fists I hope they get a bit of boost in the codex as that would be fun to throw into a enemy line.

Guys mechanicus is next after death guard! 7 forge worlds, update points and rules! Also looks like mechanicus knights are a thing!

Praise the omnissiah!

For reals tho, if mechanicus can repair knights with the new dex I will be beyond elated, tho it would make it harder not to take one

Wait what, where was this confirmed?

I need to not buy any models for a bit then lol

https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/death-guard-ad-mech-codex-books-announced.html

Yeah, Knights being included in our lists from the get-go with Stratagems to support them is amazing.
Quite excited for this release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaynen wrote:
Wait what, where was this confirmed?

I need to not buy any models for a bit then lol

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/22/codex-death-guard-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

 gally912 wrote:
Guys mechanicus is next after death guard! 7 forge worlds, update points and rules! Also looks like mechanicus knights are a thing!

Praise the omnissiah!

For reals tho, if mechanicus can repair knights with the new dex I will be beyond elated, tho it would make it harder not to take one

Don't hold your breathe.

I doubt we will see Knights directly aligned. I think this is just them trying to not put out yet another Knight Codex.

That being said, I would love if they did.

Expecations:

Kataphrons drop in points, maybe go up in wounds
Kastellans jump in points - I am guessing 150 each.
TPD point drop
Skitarii point drop (maybe)
Tasers hopefully get a bit of a boost (just some AP?!)

Would also be nice if we could get some sort of requisition rule for transports - but that is pure wishlisting. But lets be real - AdMech has the designs and Forge Worlds, how do they not have access to basic stuff like Chimeras, Rhinos, Land Raiders, etc.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
Guys mechanicus is next after death guard! 7 forge worlds, update points and rules! Also looks like mechanicus knights are a thing!

Praise the omnissiah!

For reals tho, if mechanicus can repair knights with the new dex I will be beyond elated, tho it would make it harder not to take one

Don't hold your breathe.

I doubt we will see Knights directly aligned. I think this is just them trying to not put out yet another Knight Codex.

That being said, I would love if they did.

Expecations:

Kataphrons drop in points, maybe go up in wounds
Kastellans jump in points - I am guessing 150 each.
TPD point drop
Skitarii point drop (maybe)
Tasers hopefully get a bit of a boost (just some AP?!)

Would also be nice if we could get some sort of requisition rule for transports - but that is pure wishlisting. But lets be real - AdMech has the designs and Forge Worlds, how do they not have access to basic stuff like Chimeras, Rhinos, Land Raiders, etc.

I don't know, I can see them using strategems to maybe allow you to add the canticles/admech keyword to a knight so that you can repair it and give it re-rolls, like making a marine a chapter master, not sure how many that would cost probably at least 2. Easily worth the cost to have shrodpalsmed knight with Cawl re-rolls in your first turn... actually maybe they won't go that far.

Kastelans won't jump in points... AdMech right now isn't doing well. At worst it will stay the same. It might get cheaper

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Kastelans won't jump in points... AdMech right now isn't doing well. At worst it will stay the same. It might get cheaper

We will see. A lot does need to come down though. But given the price tag of that Kastelan kit, maybe it won't go up in points cost!

Why would they possibly put them in the same book if they wernt going to have the "Ad Mech" Keyword

That would be pointless and if they wanted to be typical GW they'd be in a separate codex

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Why would they possibly put them in the same book if they wernt going to have the "Ad Mech" Keyword

That would be pointless and if they wanted to be typical GW they'd be in a separate codex

This hasn't been "typical GW" since 8th edition released. So throw that out the window. I figure we might get some overlapping options, but I do not expect them to be repair-able or get re-rolls, etc. But I hope to be pleasantly surprised. We could use a buff.

All I want from the new codex is a transport, that would really help with some of our glaring weaknesses.

Oh sweet Omnissiah yes, we're getting it soon. I honestly thought they'd skip us over more popular armies like Aeldari and such. I'm really glad, we definitely need transports, every game I play I suffer from it as I can't build armies like I want due to too few models in my collection. Going to wait before buying that Deathwatch box, if they make our army better and release new models I'll need the money.

More time to paint what needs painting

Has anyone found a way to make Infiltrators useful? I've been wanting to use them instead of Scions in a list as some deepstriking interruption units (something we need as we have no vehicles). The problem I'm having is fitting them in, as they seem to be very expensive and I'm not sure they're actually capable of doing much in the way of wounds?

Otherwise I might just use Scions, and convert the models. Or use infiltrator models anyway haha.

Niiru wrote:
Has anyone found a way to make Infiltrators useful? I've been wanting to use them instead of Scions in a list as some deepstriking interruption units (something we need as we have no vehicles). The problem I'm having is fitting them in, as they seem to be very expensive and I'm not sure they're actually capable of doing much in the way of wounds?

Otherwise I might just use Scions, and convert the models. Or use infiltrator models anyway haha.

I use Goads and Stubbers. So far, they have been good. Half the time they just take a table corner and/or objective after I mow down stuff with Robots. The other half, they suicide in to distract my opponent and sometimes do stuff. They get a lot of shots and a decent amount of attacks (provided they make the charge).

From what we saw in C:SM, I don't foresee too many major changes. My guess? Stratagems, tactics, and relics; points adjustments in underused units and underpowered weapons; and MAYBE a few rule changes.

I doubt they will give us a transport. Forge World might... one day...

They definitely will give us "Chapter Tactics" for Forge Worlds. This may finally give us a good reason to take a second Dominus, since all units would have to be drawn from the same forge world to use a tactic.

On that note, I don't think there will be points changes for Skitarii or TPD, but they will get buffs from the aforementioned tactics, stratagems, and relics to justify their cost. (The same will probably push Imperial Guard regiments over the line so that not everything will be Conscript spam.) I personally look forward to the 8E Arcana Mechanicum.

I think they will be using this opportunity to update Knights. The Questor Mechanicus may or may not be its own new faction keyword with its own tactics.

Other stuff:
-Lower cost for Kataphrons
-Lower cost for Servo Arms
-Improvement to Arc weapons
-Improvement to Taser weapons (AP for Lance, another attack for Goad?)
-Improvement to Torsion Cannon
-Improvement to Phosphor Serpenta

HQ:
Belisarius Cawl
[250]

Elites:
Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Fist
[52]

Fast Attack:
Sydonian Dragoon
Taser Lance
[68]

Sydonian Dragoon
Taser Lance
[68]

Heavy:
(3) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[330]

(2) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[220]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[130]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[143]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[143]

Superheavy Aux
Knight Crusader
Avenger Gatling Cannon, RFBC, 2x Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Stormspear
[585]

[1989]

All this talk about Knights - here is the list I am thinking of running. Just got to build/paint that Crusader.

Agamembar wrote:
So i have been working on my list for 2k and so far have the following, really love the idea of having a Knight with my Ad Mech so the hope is that it will get stuck into the opponents lines doing as much damage as possible while the Onagers and Ballistarii with Cawl put out a reliable damage. I just finished the Stryix as I had been running a Paladin before and I can switch back if I can't use Forge world models but the weapons seem cool and I love the look of the armor so I'll be happy to be able to run it. Just another knight to get and build to be able to run them as a army of their own. Maybe I might split the Dargoons into seperate squads so they can go for seperate objectives and I would have went with the Heavy Arc Rifle before on the Kataphrons as it was more shots but readinbg some reports of the Torsion Cannons and the TPD giving them some re-rolls I think I'll give them a go as well.

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment +3CP

HQ
Belisarius Cawl [ 250pts]

Tech-Priest Dominus [135pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Troops
Kataphron Breachers [183pts]
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon
Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw , Torsion Cannon

Skitarii Rangers [78pts]
2x Ranger (Arc Rifle)
Ranger Alpha Galvanic rifle
4x Skitarii Ranger

Skitarii Vanguards [64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [ 64pts]
3x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard (Plasma caliver)]
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Elites [160pts]

10x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [160pts]

Fast Attack [286pts]

Ironstrider Ballistarii [150pts]
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon.
Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon

Sydonian Dragoons [136pts]
Sydonian Dragoon
Sydonian Dragoon

Heavy Support [276pts]

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array , Smoke Launchers
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis heavy stubber, Icarus Array, Smoke Launchers

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
500pts

Questoris Knight Styrix : Graviton crusher , Volkite chieorovile . Hekaton siege claw w/ twin rad-cleanser

Total: [1998pts]

As I have four of the Kastelans models with flamers and fists I hope they get a bit of boost in the codex as that would be fun to throw into a enemy line.

Torsion Cannons? Do they work without Holy Requisitioner at all?

Going to be honest, I'm not wild about most of these models. They tend to be too expensive or too narrow in usage to be good. Most armies are just Crawlers, Kastelans, and Cawl with some screening unit for good reason.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
HQ:

Spoiler:

Belisarius Cawl
[250]

Elites:
Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Fist
[52]

Fast Attack:
Sydonian Dragoon
Taser Lance
[68]

Sydonian Dragoon
Taser Lance
[68]

Heavy:
(3) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[330]

(2) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[220]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[130]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[143]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[143]

Superheavy Aux
Knight Crusader
Avenger Gatling Cannon, RFBC, 2x Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Stormspear
[585]

[1989]

All this talk about Knights - here is the list I am thinking of running. Just got to build/paint that Crusader.

I would not go below 2x2 Dragoons or 2x Icarus Crawler in a TAC list. Our biggest threats are other artillery armies and extremely mobile flying armies.

And I'm still going to recommend those two Knight builds I posted earlier. The extra points really do help.

I can't really afford 2x2 Dragoons in most lists. They are not that vital, I have found. Useful, but I wouldn't want to cut things like Robots to fit them in. And the RFBC is decent vs Thermal. If I didn't have two Neutrons, I would go Thermal, but I think I have anti-tank covered and the RFBC helps against infantry a bit more than the TC.

I need to paint up another Icarus array. Just don't have it ready yet. Twin Neutrons served me well though, because invariably I only roll 1's for shots. We benefit from that extra Neutron a lot, since we can kill infantry with such ease.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I can't really afford 2x2 Dragoons in most lists. They are not that vital, I have found. Useful, but I wouldn't want to cut things like Robots to fit them in. And the RFBC is decent vs Thermal. If I didn't have two Neutrons, I would go Thermal, but I think I have anti-tank covered and the RFBC helps against infantry a bit more than the TC.

I need to paint up another Icarus array. Just don't have it ready yet. Twin Neutrons served me well though, because invariably I only roll 1's for shots. We benefit from that extra Neutron a lot, since we can kill infantry with such ease.

I absolutely would cut Kastelans for them. Kastelans get totally wrecked if you don't screen them properly. But then again, you've NEVER BEEN CHARGED, so maybe you don't see things like I do. Haha.

I wouldn't pay that many more points for slightly better anti-infantry, especially since you run 5 Kastelans. Besides, the Avenger is already amazingly good anti-infantry. (I would be so happy if AdMech Knights can take double Avenger like Renegade Knights.) Also, keep in mind that Thermal Cannon is great for medium-toughness units like Primaris, TEQs, Dreadnoughts, etc.

Yeah. The Icarus is mostly for anti-air. They shut down Tau and Eldar super hard; they just get oversaturated by threats.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and for what it's worth, Warhammer Community has confirmed that AdMech Knights are "slightly different" than Imperial Knights. Also, Chainswords give you a bonus attack even if you don't use it; so Cawl attacks with Hive even if you don't use it.

"Slightly different"? Like... new models or just adjusted rules?

Maybe our own rules for customizing the same models IE the Renegades?