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THIS is why Trump's games with Korea are idiotic.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42677604

Someone in Hawaii accidentally hit the 'Inbound Nukes' warning, and the entire state gak it's collective pants.

Yeah, no. Nothing about that was caused by Trump.

Well it could be argued that Trumps antagonistic interactions led to the situation seeming more plausible, and thus more believed. But generally speaking, yeah, I would say it's a bit of a stretch to put that one on Trump without some sort of context.

That and I'm sure that we've had a "Nukes Incoming" warning option on the emergency alert systems for ages. Its not like Trump existing makes the poor shmuck who's job is to send these alerts out more likely to hit that particular alert by mistake.

 Grey Templar wrote:
That and I'm sure that we've had a "Nukes Incoming" warning option on the emergency alert systems for ages. Its not like Trump existing makes the poor shmuck who's job is to send these alerts out more likely to hit that particular alert by mistake.

Aye. That's likely been part of system since it was installed.

Given a US fleet bases out of thr islands and all. It's kinda a larger target than others.

Yeah, this "Trump caused it" is getting as bad as BDS and ODS folks.

Let's settle down with it.

You know, OT is going to overflow with 'I Told You So' posts the moment a US city disappears in a nuclear fireball.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, OT is going to overflow with 'I Told You So' posts the moment a US city disappears in a nuclear fireball.

No one is stupid enough to use nuclear bombs. It would be suicide for both sides. They are solely used as a deterrent and for sabre-rattling.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, OT is going to overflow with 'I Told You So' posts the moment a US city disappears in a nuclear fireball.

No one is stupid enough to use nuclear bombs. It would be suicide for both sides. They are solely used as a deterrent and for sabre-rattling.

Well we have one warhawk with big pile of them and who isn't exactly known for his sanity...He's the most likely guy to start a live war of any kind ATM. Just have to hope he's not quite stupid enough to use nukes as well but with him who knows. Maniacs rarely think logically.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, OT is going to overflow with 'I Told You So' posts the moment a US city disappears in a nuclear fireball.

No one is stupid enough to use nuclear bombs. It would be suicide for both sides. They are solely used as a deterrent and for sabre-rattling.

We had several close run-ins with a nuclear war during the Cold War. Problem of nuclear weapon strategy is that its also better to fire them as fast as possible in response, so that almost went wrong a few times. Never say never.

Plus if the whole world is collapsing metaphorically speaking for the North Korean leadership, the question remains if they go quietly.

BREAKING NEWS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5279309/North-South-Korea-agree-form-joint-Olympic-team.html

it seems... somthing impossible has happened.

 jhe90 wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5279309/North-South-Korea-agree-form-joint-Olympic-team.html

it seems... somthing impossible has happened.

Oh wow, that is really awesome!

They've done similar before. There was a united Korean football team for the 1991 World Cup.

Anybody taking bets that the North Korean players don't go home when its over?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Anybody taking bets that the North Korean players don't go home when its over?

NK usually takes hostages to ensure that doesn't happen. And if it does happen, your family dies.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Anybody taking bets that the North Korean players don't go home when its over?

NK usually takes hostages to ensure that doesn't happen. And if it does happen, your family dies.

Given some of the recent defectors, that doesn't seem to always be a deterrent. I'm sure those two soldiers that defected still had some family back home Kim's goons could find. Which really shows how stinking bad it is over there.

My guess is they will only defect if they don't win any medals, since I'd expect Kim has a bullet waiting for them in Pyongyang should they "fail the country" and any NK athlete would know it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
They've done similar before. There was a united Korean football team for the 1991 World Cup.

They did the same thing in Sydney in 2000, marching under a common flag for the opening ceremony. The difference this time is that there is also a unified team, but only in women's ice hockey. I'm guessing they won't have to fight over which team will get to add the medal to their tally.

Thing is, when NK did this in 2000 it was a cynical ploy. They were making an entirely symbolic gesture, but they did nothing meaningful like delay their weapons development. There's no reason to think this time is any different.

It's really important to realise that fundamentally the NK leadership don't want re-unification. It's their meal ticket.

 jhe90 wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5279309/North-South-Korea-agree-form-joint-Olympic-team.html

it seems... somthing impossible has happened.

As long as the South Korean teams don’t ruin it. Apparently the ice hockey team is getting upset that having to have a joint team might damage their medal chances. Seems rather against the spirit of the Olympics to me.

squidhills wrote:
My guess is they will only defect if they don't win any medals, since I'd expect Kim has a bullet waiting for them in Pyongyang should they "fail the country" and any NK athlete would know it.

No they won’t. The same was said about the 2010 World Cup team. NK athletes don’t get killed, or put in prison, if they don’t win. People who do win medals are treated like gods (and the Kim family claims it was their inspirational input and coaching). Those who don’t apparently get a lecture about the ideals of the country and how great the Kim family are etc.

 Steve steveson wrote:
No they won’t. The same was said about the 2010 World Cup team. NK athletes don’t get killed, or put in prison, if they don’t win. People who do win medals are treated like gods (and the Kim family claims it was their inspirational input and coaching). Those who don’t apparently get a lecture about the ideals of the country and how great the Kim family are etc.

The stories of executions and the like aren't true, but there are still consequences. Athletes have been sent to the coal mines for losing. One year after a dismal World Cup performance the team's coach was forced to become a labourer.

The reaction appears largely to depend on Kim's mood, the amount of international attention, and whether you lost to a South Korean.

 sebster wrote:
The stories of executions and the like aren't true, but there are still consequences.

I can't say that for certain about NK, but I do know that some despots have made their team's lives hell. I seem to recall one of the Iraqi football team was extensively tortured after receiving a red card because it embarrassed Saddam's sons.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5279309/North-South-Korea-agree-form-joint-Olympic-team.html

it seems... somthing impossible has happened.

As long as the South Korean teams don’t ruin it. Apparently the ice hockey team is getting upset that having to have a joint team might damage their medal chances. Seems rather against the spirit of the Olympics to me.

To be fair even the Olympic Committee frequently goes against the spirit of the Olympics

I can understand the South Korean team though. Succes at the Olympics can bring with it significant financial and perhaps you could say social benefits. Why should they like giving that up for a cynical ploy by Kim to garner some international goodwill? Imagine how you would feel about having your professional career basically neutered for some political show. Olympics only come by once every four years and as an athlete you might only get one or two before getting too old or running into some health problem related to your sport.

It's definitely a heartening bit of news, regardless of the motivations for it.

It's really important to realise that fundamentally the NK leadership don't want re-unification. It's their meal ticket.

From my time spent in the country, what also surprised me is how many SK people don't want re-unification. Even if it is a heartfelt desire from the now very old population that can remember the unified nation, SK's current financial strength and status as a 'developed' country was hard won and people remember the times of having much less.

It's said W. Germany had an economy 4 times larger than the east when they re-unified, and it was a period of tremendous economic, political and social upheaval. The estimates are that SK's economy is about 20 times larger than the North - any kind of unification would bring a tremendous upheaval for the people.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, OT is going to overflow with 'I Told You So' posts the moment a US city disappears in a nuclear fireball.

No one is stupid enough to use nuclear bombs. It would be suicide for both sides. They are solely used as a deterrent and for sabre-rattling.

If you think you have already lost.. then you have nothing to lose, and it becomes an option.

This is one of the biggest risks in all of the sabre-rattling, my-button-is-bigger-than-yours twitter war, and the current administrative unpredictability. There is the potential for a message to be understood or misconstrued. If combined with another accident of some sort (imagine.. a false incoming bombers, or missile launch warning, received by the NK leadership), and it looks like the fall of a regime is on the cards, then NK would have every reason to give a bloody nose to the US even if it is completely destroyed in the process.

This is one of the big factors in the doomsday clock moving as close to midnight as it has been since the 1950s.

 Pacific wrote:

It's definitely a heartening bit of news, regardless of the motivations for it.

It's really important to realise that fundamentally the NK leadership don't want re-unification. It's their meal ticket.

From my time spent in the country, what also surprised me is how many SK people don't want re-unification. Even if it is a heartfelt desire from the now very old population that can remember the unified nation, SK's current financial strength and status as a 'developed' country was hard won and people remember the times of having much less.

It's said W. Germany had an economy 4 times larger than the east when they re-unified, and it was a period of tremendous economic, political and social upheaval. The estimates are that SK's economy is about 20 times larger than the North - any kind of unification would bring a tremendous upheaval for the people.

Yeah, a reunification of Korea would need to be a very slow, gradual process. Handling it like Germany did would become a disaster.

Send in some Primaris Space Marines and let them run riot throughout the country. They could take on Kim Jung.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Yeah, a reunification of Korea would need to be a very slow, gradual process. Handling it like Germany did would become a disaster.

Obviously, the unification will completely ruin the economy of South Korea. They understand this and will be careful about actual unification.

 Freakazoitt wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Yeah, a reunification of Korea would need to be a very slow, gradual process. Handling it like Germany did would become a disaster.

Obviously, the unification will completely ruin the economy of South Korea. They understand this and will be careful about actual unification.

Yes, it would be very taxing on their economy. Therefore need to do it slowly and gradually, lest their economy is completely destroyed.

Well, I called it earlier in this thread. . . and its hints like these that tell you something is brewing:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/south-korea-expert-victor-cha-warned-white-house-on-north-korea.html

Trump's team stopped returning Cha's calls in December after the strategist made his concerns known about attacking the North, the FT continued, noting that Cha was reportedly asked whether he could help manage the evacuation of American citizens from South Korea.

I truly believe this is coming.

If they could keep it just between them, that'd be terrific.

I don't much fancy dying because some giant orange man-baby and a fat get with stupid hair.

KTG17 wrote:
Well, I called it earlier in this thread. . . and its hints like these that tell you something is brewing:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/south-korea-expert-victor-cha-warned-white-house-on-north-korea.html

Trump's team stopped returning Cha's calls in December after the strategist made his concerns known about attacking the North, the FT continued, noting that Cha was reportedly asked whether he could help manage the evacuation of American citizens from South Korea.

I truly believe this is coming.

To be fair this might not be an actual hint. Being able to help manage the evacuation of citizens seems like it should be a pretty standard part of the job for ambassadors to volatile countries. One could argue South Korea bordering North Korea fitting the potentially volatile description. Only way to find out is what other ambassadors from other admins have been told, but then again the Trump admin is pretty unorthodox, so it might mean little by itself (as in who were the members of that team asking questions). As for the fact he wasn't picked, that might just be for his opposition, they might want a more hawkish representative.

The major indicator would be troop movements but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. This episode is from when tensions were more pronounced and the Trump Admin seems to have calmed down on North Korea somewhat.