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 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
€35,- is a bit steep for the Achilles, but damn it, kinda want one.

I'd argue that it's reasonably priced and makes the Ork buggies look way overpriced.

The whole Start Collecting comment has me VERY interested to see any pictures relating to it now.

I mean, as someone who very frequently uses the ork buggies, I gotta disagree with that sentiment. The only two buggies the ridgerunner outperforms are the snazzwagon (arguably pays for -1 to hit, burna bombs and the ability to actually move around and fire its weapons) and the squigbuggy...which....gold star for that, lol. A wet fart in a paper bag outperforms the squigbuggy.

The lascannon variant is 40 points less than the shokkjump dragsta, which gets 25% more damage vs vehicles, the ability to move and fire its weapons, and clan traits (which can be +1 to hit, super-salamander hit wound and damage reroll+obsec+6++, or reroll 1s to hit, ridgerunner doesn't get cult traits). I'd take the shokkjump over the lascannon ridgerunner any day, the ridgerunner gets to move 9" once and then it better be within 24" of every target its ever going to want to shoot for the rest of the game.

I'd REALLY rather take a skrapjet over the lascannon ridgerunner, since it gets double the stubber shots, the same anti-tank output, the ability to move and shoot, clan traits, and it's a space marine with a chainfist in melee with bonus mortal wounds on the charge.

The KBB really fills a different role. It's tough to compare a stationary gunline vehicle with an anti-tank gun with a vehicle with an anti-light vehicle gun that also has 4d3 flamer shots strapped onto it.

We're talking about the price of the physical model...I'd say it makes them look overpriced with the fact that the Orks are single-build but same price.

As opposed to the ridgerunner coming with 4 extra bits you won't use?

I guess.

Depending on the posing of the standing neophyte, you might get an extra Mook. Not as good as the Goliath where you get 3 though....

I was hoping the Achilles would be comparable to the Ork buggies in price. I really love the look of it.

It is the same as the new ork buggies (well UK pricing at least)

Yeah, they might throw on an extra 10% for funsies over the ork buggies when they do the price in real money, Wallabybux, kiwifruits, or Chuck E. Cheese tokens backed by the Hockey Puck standard.

zamerion wrote:




review

It seems that the genestealers are affected by the "CULT" keyword..

Yeah, no. The strange thing is that apparently InControl playtested the codex for 2 months. So either GW got cold feet and did a last minute nerf to Genestealers and Patriarch, or Geoff completely missed it (and reported corrupt data to GW for 2 months).

He had access to the codex, but he only just joined the playtesting team, so didn't actually playtest it. That is almost literally the first thing he says in the video.

 Niiai wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Ray's twitter will sooner or later also show off some of the other cool stuff you can do with this kit, as he's done in the past with the city and industrial kits.

What is his twitter handle?

https://twitter.com/RayDranfield

 Fifty wrote:
He had access to the codex, but he only just joined the playtesting team, so didn't actually playtest it. That is almost literally the first thing he says in the video.

I stand corrected that he hasn't had any say or input into the codex, at 2:10. He's had the codex and played with it for two months though, 2:20.

 Causalis wrote:
In the codex a start collecting GSC box is mentioned. It says something like "The army in the picture is comprised of a SC GSC box" and it shows Neos, Acos, a Goliath and a Primus.

It’s an Iconward, not a Primus.

the_scotsman wrote:

I mean, as someone who very frequently uses the ork buggies, I gotta disagree with that sentiment. The only two buggies the ridgerunner outperforms are the snazzwagon (arguably pays for -1 to hit, burna bombs and the ability to actually move around and fire its weapons) and the squigbuggy...which....gold star for that, lol. A wet fart in a paper bag outperforms the squigbuggy.

The lascannon variant is 40 points less than the shokkjump dragsta, which gets 25% more damage vs vehicles, the ability to move and fire its weapons, and clan traits (which can be +1 to hit, super-salamander hit wound and damage reroll+obsec+6++, or reroll 1s to hit, ridgerunner doesn't get cult traits). I'd take the shokkjump over the lascannon ridgerunner any day, the ridgerunner gets to move 9" once and then it better be within 24" of every target its ever going to want to shoot for the rest of the game.

I'd REALLY rather take a skrapjet over the lascannon ridgerunner, since it gets double the stubber shots, the same anti-tank output, the ability to move and shoot, clan traits, and it's a space marine with a chainfist in melee with bonus mortal wounds on the charge.

The KBB really fills a different role. It's tough to compare a stationary gunline vehicle with an anti-tank gun with a vehicle with an anti-light vehicle gun that also has 4d3 flamer shots strapped onto it.

The ridgerunner is also significantly cheaper in points than all of the Ork buggy variants (you've said yourself - 40 pts cheaper than SJD which is 34% less expensive, 30 pts less than the Scrapjet) and has effectively the same (if not better) durability because str 5 and 6 weapons are not only rare but also never fired at vehicles. You always seem to completely ignore durability when comparing units and I'm not sure why.

Forget melee on any of the Ork buggies. If you are in melee you have probably fethed up because you won't shoot next turn. And your shooting profile is significantly better than your melee one.

The ridgerunner is also more flexible in its loadout and please stop pretending that it can't move and fire its weapons. It can and its BS goes up to 5+ if it does, the same as Orks....

The clan traits that are actually used competitively by Ork players are Evil Sunz and Bad Moons. So +movement or RR 1s to hit in shooting are the traits they actually benefit from. The ridge runner gets the deployment shenanigans so you can counter deploy it perfectly or you can use the scout move to deny deep strike. For much less points.

To be fair, deffskullz are a pretty good choice for the shokkjump dragsta. In regards to the ridgerunner & ork buggies in general I'd say that the ridgerunner is easily at least better than some of them (boomdakka snazzwagon and the one that won't be namned) but I'd put it on par with the KBB, Megatrakk & shokkjump without issue.

As AAE alluded to above, durability is a big issue and the SJD is 120 points for something that will melt to anything resembling AT and its short range on the guns means it will be in range to be fired at. So a buggy for 84 points brings a lot more durability per point in virtually any instance. I also think that scout move is going to come into play quite a bit, you can somewhat hide the unit depending on who goes first and use it to deepstrike deny etc. You can also "blip them" right? meaning they should be easy to hide out of LoS from the enemy AT if you don't go first. Ork buggies have no such luxury unless you deepstrike them for 2CP each (although the SJD can hide pretty well I guess)

Isn't the ridgerunner also buffable by the jackal alpha or did I misunderstand that? Because if it is, getting d3 lascannon shots at BS3+ for 84 points ain't bad. Sure that's an added cost of that HQ but they have similar ranges and she can buff more than a singular unit right?

We'll see how it all pans out in the end but isn't the bigger issue that GSC get thunder hammers (under a different name) for 4 points? Why is a guardsman powerfist 8 or an SM 9 (or an Ork 13)?

I agree the big advantage the ridge runner has, is the scout move, if you know your going first move into position with your scout move so you don't have to suffer the penalty to hit on the first turn.

The Jackal Alpha appears to buff all units in 6" (bikes within 12") so in theory yeah you can get the +1 to hit, so now, if you are going first you are hitting on 3's. That seems pretty handy to me.

Add in a flare launcher and combo with the dirt bikers and jackal alpha and you've got a nice little mobile force there.

Plus they are probably the best looking units in the GSC army!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

I mean, as someone who very frequently uses the ork buggies, I gotta disagree with that sentiment. The only two buggies the ridgerunner outperforms are the snazzwagon (arguably pays for -1 to hit, burna bombs and the ability to actually move around and fire its weapons) and the squigbuggy...which....gold star for that, lol. A wet fart in a paper bag outperforms the squigbuggy.

The lascannon variant is 40 points less than the shokkjump dragsta, which gets 25% more damage vs vehicles, the ability to move and fire its weapons, and clan traits (which can be +1 to hit, super-salamander hit wound and damage reroll+obsec+6++, or reroll 1s to hit, ridgerunner doesn't get cult traits). I'd take the shokkjump over the lascannon ridgerunner any day, the ridgerunner gets to move 9" once and then it better be within 24" of every target its ever going to want to shoot for the rest of the game.

I'd REALLY rather take a skrapjet over the lascannon ridgerunner, since it gets double the stubber shots, the same anti-tank output, the ability to move and shoot, clan traits, and it's a space marine with a chainfist in melee with bonus mortal wounds on the charge.

The KBB really fills a different role. It's tough to compare a stationary gunline vehicle with an anti-tank gun with a vehicle with an anti-light vehicle gun that also has 4d3 flamer shots strapped onto it.

The ridgerunner is also significantly cheaper in points than all of the Ork buggy variants (you've said yourself - 40 pts cheaper than SJD which is 34% less expensive, 30 pts less than the Scrapjet) and has effectively the same (if not better) durability because str 5 and 6 weapons are not only rare but also never fired at vehicles. You always seem to completely ignore durability when comparing units and I'm not sure why.

Forget melee on any of the Ork buggies. If you are in melee you have probably fethed up because you won't shoot next turn. And your shooting profile is significantly better than your melee one.

The ridgerunner is also more flexible in its loadout and please stop pretending that it can't move and fire its weapons. It can and its BS goes up to 5+ if it does, the same as Orks....

The clan traits that are actually used competitively by Ork players are Evil Sunz and Bad Moons. So +movement or RR 1s to hit in shooting are the traits they actually benefit from. The ridge runner gets the deployment shenanigans so you can counter deploy it perfectly or you can use the scout move to deny deep strike. For much less points.

"Forget melee on any of the buggies" - I'm guessing this is why you don't get value out of your skrapjets. Those things are awesome in melee. Just don't charge something that can survive 3 chainfist hits+1 mortal wound and you won't be in melee on your turn. the damage output in melee of a deathskullz skrapjet against tanks/elites is nearly identical to the damage output in shooting.

"The only competitive clan traits are evil sunz and bad moonz" - yeah, deathskullz never gets talked about. You know, I have been reading that 50-odd page ork tactics thread since it came out, and also following tournament results for orks. Deathskullz are an extremely popular choice. I've never seen a competitive ork list that ran pure evil sunz and included any shooting units, so I am 100% ignoring the possibility that it might just have +1 movement from a competitive standpoint. You'll either have a souped bad moonz detachment or be running pure deathskullz if you have buggies.

"It is more durable for its points" - yes. It also has less offensive output by a significant margin, and lower mobility. The reason I focus on those is because those are the differences between the ork buggies and the ridgerunner. A model with the same durability, and nearly twice as much anti tank firepower, is going to need to cost some amount more. You can quibble over whether its overpaying for mobility/the useless jump ability but going "IT COST MORE BUT IT DIE THA SAME!" is kind of silly.

"If it moves it becomes the same BS as orks!" - and does SIGNIFICANTLY less damage because ork weapons tend to have way more shots. Unless, you know, they're not BS5+, like the shokkjump. If the ridgerunner moves with the lascannon loadout, it is getting .66 lascannon hits and 2 stubber hits, compare to a Deathskullz or Bad Moonz shockjump's average of 1.55 lascannon hits and .38 rokkit hits.

"It's more flexible in loadout" - sure, if you want to have brain damage and divide its firepower in half by running a missile launcher or run it as a terrible version of the boomdakka snazzwagon then you can. Realistically the different loadouts you're going to see are "do I take flares or a spotter for extra range." The missile launcher option is literally "you get a choice between paying 5 points less for less than half the antitank firepower, or it can be a 15-point third heavy stubber" and the mortar gives you a 67-point vehicle with 2 heavy stubbers and a heavy bolter. Just run a chimera for like 10 points more lol.

the_scotsman wrote:
"Forget melee on any of the buggies" t value out of your skrapjets. Those things are awesome in melee. Just don't charge something that can survive 3 chainfist hits+1 mortal wound and you won't be in melee on your turn. the damage output in melee of a deathskullz skrapjet against tanks/elites is nearly identical to the damage output in shooting.

God you talk some rubbish sometimes. Everything you'll be in range to charge will be able to survive the melee output of the Scrapjet because, as you know and keep harping on about in relation to the Kelerschmerple, screens are a thing. You aren't going to get that Scrapjet in melee combat against its preferred target in reality and I note that you've picked the one possible configuration in deathskulls to try and emphasise that the melee profile isn't a complete waste of points. You are arguing in bad faith and making sweeping assumptions to suit your argument. Assumptions that you literally contradict when you discuss other units.

"The only competitive clan traits are evil sunz and bad moonz" - yeah, deathskullz never gets talked about. You know, I have been reading that 50-odd page ork tactics thread since it came out, and also following tournament results for orks. Deathskullz are an extremely popular choice. I've never seen a competitive ork list that ran pure evil sunz and included any shooting units, so I am 100% ignoring the possibility that it might just have +1 movement from a competitive standpoint. You'll either have a souped bad moonz detachment or be running pure deathskullz if you have buggies.

You've been nailing your opinion all over the Ork tactics thread too iirc. Aren't you the very same Scotsman that told me I was insane for thinking the Snazzwagon is better than the Squig Buggy? That it might rival the KBB? Regardless I've never seen a competitive Deathskulls list that ran buggies. I don't think I've seen a competitive list of any type take Ork Buggies. Please share the details, I'd be interested to see how it performed too, if you have that info?
From what I've seen of competitive Orks (following results very closely, listening to podcasts etc) Evil Sunz are by far the most popular clan, followed by Bad Moonz. You're ignoring the ES clan trait because it doesn't suit your rhetoric. Bad faith.

"It is more durable for its points" - yes. It also has less offensive output by a significant margin, and lower mobility. The reason I focus on those is because those are the differences between the ork buggies and the ridgerunner. A model with the same durability, and nearly twice as much anti tank firepower, is going to need to cost some amount more. You can quibble over whether its overpaying for mobility/the useless jump ability but going "IT COST MORE BUT IT DIE THA SAME!" is kind of silly.

Define 'significant margin'. Where did you get twice ad much anti tank firepower from? You said 25% more for the SJD against preferred targets in your own example. When it is more durable and 35% cheaper? Looks like a win to me overall. The mobility is the same isn't it? Don't they both move 14"? You seem to be overegging the benefits of the Ork buggies for some reason. The other, significant difference is cost. There is a value all in itself in cheap FA slot fillers. Please don't fall into the idiot trap of straemanning. I can manage a conversation without caps thanks.

"If it moves it becomes the same BS as orks!" - and does SIGNIFICANTLY less damage because ork weapons tend to have way more shots. Unless, you know, they're not BS5+, like the shokkjump. If the ridgerunner moves with the lascannon loadout, it is getting .66 lascannon hits and 2 stubber hits, compare to a Deathskullz or Bad Moonz shockjump's average of 1.55 lascannon hits and .38 rokkit hits.

Ah comparing the least favourable situation of one unit (it moves) against the most favourable of another (Deathskulls/Bad Moonz). Bad faith. Again. Why aren't you assuming the SJD has jumped/advanced in any of these comparisons? Why are you claiming a unit can't move when it evidently can? When you have units as cheap and durable as the RR you can send it to grab objectives in a pinch. You make out like the thing is stuck to the table.

"It's more flexible in loadout" - sure, if you want to have brain damage and divide its firepower in half by running a missile launcher or run it as a terrible version of the boomdakka snazzwagon then you can. Realistically the different loadouts you're going to see are "do I take flares or a spotter for extra range." The missile launcher option is literally "you get a choice between paying 5 points less for less than half the antitank firepower, or it can be a 15-point third heavy stubber" and the mortar gives you a 67-point vehicle with 2 heavy stubbers and a heavy bolter. Just run a chimera for like 10 points more lol.

It's still flexibility which is a strength. If you need to drop a few points you have the option. None of the Ork buggies do. How much I'd love to drop the Rokkit from the SJD but alas, tis but a dream.

Wow. The last time I saw an Englishman and a Scotsman have a debate this uncivilized, Mel Gibson painted his face blue.

Can we feth off with the ork buggy tactics please? This is a GSC news thread.

PiñaColada wrote:

We'll see how it all pans out in the end but isn't the bigger issue that GSC get thunder hammers (under a different name) for 4 points? Why is a guardsman powerfist 8 or an SM 9 (or an Ork 13)?

Which weapon are you talking about? If it's the Power hammer, I could have sworn it doubled an Abberants cost....or did they lose nearly all of their cost?

Watch the tone, An Actual Englishman. Edging towards a Rule #1 violation.

The heavy mortar might not be much good on a Ridgerunner, but I definitely want to see how well they would work for a Griffon conversion. I've been wanting to add a battery of Griffons to my Steel Legion army for years! Will keep my eye out for a size comparison once the model is released.

 EnTyme wrote:
Wow. The last time I saw an Englishman and a Scotsman have a debate this uncivilized, Mel Gibson painted his face blue.

Slow clap.

Personally, I think a heavy mortar and a survey scanner (or whatever it's called) might be the best use of a Ridgerunner if you're not using Rusted Claw. Park it behind a building and use it as artillery support. With the 3 detachment limit in match play, you're not always going to be able to bring Brood Brothers artillery. Just a thought.

I got my order today. Jackals, Alphus and nexos plus data cards.

If there are questions, hand them over.

 Lorek wrote:
Watch the tone, An Actual Englishman. Edging towards a Rule #1 violation.

And yet stating I have brain damage is entirely polite? Please pm me if you have an issue with my posts rather than call me out in the middle of a thread.

 Astmeister wrote:
I got my order today. Jackals, Alphus and nexos plus data cards.

If there are questions, hand them over.

Does the Nexos' map of GW HQ show where they keep the plastic Thunderhawks?

 xttz wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I got my order today. Jackals, Alphus and nexos plus data cards.

If there are questions, hand them over.

Does the Nexos' map of GW HQ show where they keep the plastic Thunderhawks?

Yes it does. But that secret will not be shared.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Lorek wrote:
Watch the tone, An Actual Englishman. Edging towards a Rule #1 violation.

And yet stating I have brain damage is entirely polite? Please pm me if you have an issue with my posts rather than call me out in the middle of a thread.

the_scotsman said "If you want to have brain damage". Didn't call you brain damaged. Not entirely polite, but you were both bickering a bit before you escalated.

But I WILL call you out for your behavior. Sometimes your value is as an example to others.

Apologies for the bickering in the news thread - not the time or place for talking ork tactics.

Ast, I'm jealous! My stuff isn't slated to come in until this saturday.

the_scotsman wrote:
Apologies for the bickering in the news thread - not the time or place for talking ork tactics.

Ast, I'm jealous! My stuff isn't slated to come in until this saturday.

Already assembled the bikes. I love them so much that I am thinking about buying a KTM again. If my wife wouldn't kill me...

 EnTyme wrote:
Wow. The last time I saw an Englishman and a Scotsman have a debate this uncivilized, Mel Gibson painted his face blue.

Haven't seen any UK politics in action recently then Banockburn was a tea party by comparison. About as much made up nonsense as Braveheart mind.

How many units of bikes can you run? 3 or 4?

They had me at the doomsday weapon, but the added bike gang could really push me over the edge into the arms of our loving Patriarch….

 EnTyme wrote:
Wow. The last time I saw an Englishman and a Scotsman have a debate this uncivilized, Mel Gibson painted his face blue.

Early contender for post of the year right here.