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Alot of armies have 16 figs in a box for their rank and file troops.  The new rules say ranks must be five wide in order to count as a rank.  I consider the five wide rule to be a good move, as it looks better IMO, however 16 men in a box only makes 3 ranks, and for 35 bucks...well that just dosn't cut it.

While GW's prices are stoopid, I feel they'll get the message eventually (hint hint for you GW workers out there) which is why I'm sticking to the hobby.

Anyways back to business, do you think adding a single extra sprue of 4 men (which is what most of these come in IIRC) to up the 16 man box to 20 men at no extra end user cost would be a wise decision for GW?

Of course it would.. but that also means GW won't do it because if they don't you have to buy a second box of figures... sadly I think this new 5-wide rule was just a ploy to force people to buy extra boxes of troops to make the ranks.. like in the old days of 5th edition where you got like 8 plastic guys in a box.. less in the box = more boxes purchased = more $$$... it's worse with something like Chaos where the warriors are, I think, 12 in a box.

I thought so too, about the five wide rule being a ploy. Infact I'm sure it is really, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed they get the hint that they're being stupid about their marketing.

I mean, if something costs X to make, and you sell it so you profit 50USD, and there are five people looking at the object, then three are driven off by price, then you get 2 customers which nets 100 bucks profit.

Now if the same item costs X to make, but you drop your profit margin to 25USD, and you get all five customers in due to more affordable price, then you're netting more sales, and a higher profit.

The five-wide rule was and is a shamelessly blatant marketing ploy to get vets to buy more figs. And really, unless I see some major changes in the next six months, I really don't think GW is going to get the hint at how ridiculously stupid they're being until it's too late (ie: buyout, bankrupt or some unforeseen drastic cost cutting measures).

When I get a chance to get some gaming in again (after the holidays? early spring?), I'm hoping the locals will be down with chucking the 5-wide requirement out the window (as a house rule, of course).

The five-wide rule is possibly the worst thing to come out of the 7th edition.  It makes ranked ogre bulls a thing of the past (they were only prohibitively expensive before, now if you try to rank your bulls you will only get about two units- total- in your army).  It means that my 12-strong units of Empire knights are either 2 models too big or three models too small.  It means that your 5-wide unit on 20mm bases no longer gets that 1 extra model in combat with those 4-wide units on 25mm bases.  And really, the reason the game designers gave- "it looks better on the table" is nonsense, very subjective, and highly suspect coming from a company shill.

Anyone remember the salad days of the late 80's?  Remember the fantastic regiment box?  60 miniatures for $20.  Ten each of six different races- wood elves, dark elves, orcs, goblins, dwarfs, and skaven.  Get together with six friends, buy a box each, and trade for the race of your choice!   Now there was a deal.  Kind of like the original Rhino box- 3 for $20- or the Rogue trade Space Marine box, where you got what, thirty plastic space marines with extra bits to make flamers & missle launchers?   

Alas, with success come arrogance, and now GW is doing us a favor by producing miniatures.  We should count ourselves lucky to be able to purchase their product, and greatfully fork over our cash.

They'll get it eventually.

We can hope.

Five wide does look better. Particularly when you’re trying to fit in full command.

Five wide also helps quality infantry when fighting cheap infantry. It allows more guys to get into base contact and actually use the better stats for which they pay more. With a minimum width of 5 for rank bonus, I can deploy a unit of 12 Chaos Warriors 6 x 2 and get the whole front rank into contact even against cheap 20mm infantry. Or get 7 High Elf Swordmasters or Dark Elf Witch Elves info contact. More guys in the front rank actually fighting is cool. Lots of people used cheap horde infantry before, but they were usually in these silly looking 4 wide by 5-7 deep column formations.

Of course, the change doesn’t address the imbalance between ranked infantry and more mobile units, but they’re working on that. The new O&G book made their heavy cav significantly more expensive. The new Empire book kept the cav around the same price but reduced the cost on the ranked infantry. And skirmishers can be march-blocked in 7th, so they don’t run around the sides of infantry blocks with impunity the same way they used to.

All that said, it does annoy me that the regiment boxes don’t contain numbers of models which naturally make the usual unit sizes. This is something I really like about Privateer’s unit boxes and blisters, but it’s easier for them because they’re all metal and they use smaller unit sizes. GW plastic boxes are limited to numbers of models which are multiples of the number of models on each sprue.  I do like the idea of adding an extra sprue to most of the infantry boxes, which would bump the 16 boxes to 20 and the 12 boxes to 16.

Or at the very least make like a 4 man blister and pack it in attached to the box.

Their extra expense would be very, very easily outstriped by the extra sales. I'm a friggin first semester college punk and I understand this--why don't they?

Posted By Infantryman on 11/27/2006 6:47 PM
Their extra expense would be very, very easily outstriped by the extra sales. I'm a friggin first semester college punk and I understand this--why don't they?

Because so long as GW is run by Tom Kirby they will continue to ignore and disillusion their customer base with more of the idiotic management and corporate decisions that have characterized his current administration of the company.

Eventually the Skaven will get him, and the company will rock once again.

Remember the fantastic regiment box? 60 miniatures for $20. Ten each of six different races- wood elves, dark elves, orcs, goblins, dwarfs, and skaven. Get together with six friends, buy a box each, and trade for the race of your choice! Now there was a deal.

Those miniatures weren't bad either. They were better than the battle for skull pass minis IMHO.

I should so have picked up three of those boxes when I was in Muncie last.

Why is it that deals only appear when I have no money?

You have been cursed. A one eyed gypsy crone sacrificed 1,000 metal dreanoughts to see it done. Now I can't have mutli meltas on my dreads. I blame malfred, and so should you.

Posted By Smatticus on 11/27/2006 11:59 PM
Remember the fantastic regiment box? 60 miniatures for $20. Ten each of six different races- wood elves, dark elves, orcs, goblins, dwarfs, and skaven. Get together with six friends, buy a box each, and trade for the race of your choice! Now there was a deal.

Those miniatures weren't bad either. They were better than the battle for skull pass minis IMHO.

Not really.  But some of them were comparable.  I have a few of the Wood Elf archers from that box.  They're not bad, but the details are even bigger and chunkier.

Posted By Smatticus on 11/27/2006 11:59 PM
Remember the fantastic regiment box? 60 miniatures for $20. Ten each of six different races- wood elves, dark elves, orcs, goblins, dwarfs, and skaven. Get together with six friends, buy a box each, and trade for the race of your choice! Now there was a deal.

Those miniatures weren't bad either. They were better than the battle for skull pass minis IMHO.

Some of those miniatures weren't bad.  If I can find the remnants in my garage, I'll gladly trade 20 of those orcs for 16 of the current boys.  But yeah, I think I prefer those dwarfs over the Skull pass models.

Posted By WayneTheGame on 11/25/2006 8:38 PM
Of course it would.. but that also means GW won't do it because if they don't you have to buy a second box of figures... sadly I think this new 5-wide rule was just a ploy to force people to buy extra boxes of troops to make the ranks.. like in the old days of 5th edition where you got like 8 plastic guys in a box.. less in the box = more boxes purchased = more $$$... it's worse with something like Chaos where the warriors are, I think, 12 in a box.

Yeah, adding sprues to current sets to make it easier to make units 'out of the box' is not going to happen.  When I first heard of the '5 model rank' my first thought (after working for GW) was how that was going to affect the company's bottom line; not gameplay.  Bigger units look better on the table?  They sure do especially if you have to go out an buy another box of troops to bolster the units that you already have completed.  Good show, GW; way to stick it to the Vets once again.

It would be a fantastic move... for players.

It would be a terrible move for GW, as they would sell less boxes. This way, you have to buy 2 boxes, or bitz order an sprue with an inflated price.

BYE