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 Wilytank wrote:
MOVING AWAY FROM GREY HUNTER RANT:

I'd like for them to dump the whole "Feet on ground like Russ intended" fluff. That bit of fluff is so full of gak it's not even funny. Completely self-contradictory too. Every Space Wolf that's ever made it off of Fenris has gone against that bit of stupid philosophy.

What has done mostly is make it so we don't Teleport, wich is ok with me.
Now a larger Drop Pod would be nice.

Here are my latest thoughts on an idealized SW FOC

HQ: Still get up to 4

What's there now:
Wolf Lord - brought more in line with the SM Captain in points, and options, but Belt of Russ should be standard plus a few Wolfy options
Wolf Priest - brought more in line with the SM Chaplain - again some specifically Wolfy touches
Rune Priest - brought in line with the SM Librarian, access to the Fenresian psychic discipline. See below for what happens to the Runic Weapon.
Wolf Guard Battle Leader - Cheaper, toned down Wolf Lord or upgraded Wolf Guard, whichever, he's still in there.

What I'd Add:
Iron Priest - straight up HQ choice for these guys, Saga of the Iron Wolf to allow him to upgrade into something akin to Master of the Forge and if he is your warlord, Elite and Heavy Support Dreadnaughts. He also can take a group of up to 4 Cyberwolves but still is an independent character
Lone Wolves: With a limit preventing them from being your Warlord (so you have to pick a second HQ)
Wolf Guard - in this case, you get to take 1 per Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest, Rune Priest or Wolf Guard Battle Leader. They would also have an option for riding Thunderwolves
Servitors - you get to take one of these units per iron priest, set up pretty much the same as the SM version, Cyber Wolves are attached to the Priest directly

Troops: More or less the same

Grey Hunters: No points decrease, paying same price as SM for options. I discuss the Wolf Banner below
Blood Caws - change Bezerk Charge and Headstrong to Rage, drop their points (I'm thinking 12 points per model) and an option to take Jump Packs if they didn't take a dedicated transport

Elite: I took a lot out of here, so now it's time to give back

Still here:
Dreadnoughts - bring them in line with the SM variant, make Venerable an upgrade
Wolf Scouts: More or less as they are, maybe a small point deduction (but not a lot, they have some wicked special rules). Camo Cloaks would be a nice touch for these guys

New comers
Ironclad Dreadnoughts - new for the wolves, but they seem exactly like the sort of unit the Wlves would be using. Besides, if the SM got to steal the Venerable dread, the SW can steal the Ironclad
Thunderwolf Cavalry: Based on fluff these guys should be elite and have Wolf Guard Stat-lines. I want to open up options for them (ie everybody gets to trade in pistol and ccw for melee or ranged weapons like a Wolf Guard) and reduce their points. Wolfguard will be able to join, provided they have their Thunderwolf Mount

Fast Attack: This one is looking a tad lighter

Fenersian Wolves - more or less as is, but any number of the pack can upgrade to Cyberwolves
Swiftclaw Bike Pack - i think I'll drop the option for an attack bike, but up the number of Special Weapons that can be taken - there will probably be a points drop to somehwere between scout and marine bikers
Land Speeder Squadron - pricing adjustment to standard for the SM

An add on to fill out the section a bit:

Wolf Talon - My Wolfy name for the Stormtalon, which can probably just be called a Stormtalon and put in here. I'm too lazy to come up with a Wolf specific flyer and all that crap about fighting with their feet on the ground refers to teleportation, not flyers anyway.
13th Company? Might be better as a dataslate. In any case, they can't shoot, but they move fast and hit hard. I'm thinking Furious Charge, Rage, Rampage and Rending. Probably Beasts instead of Infantry. Feel No Pain instead of an Armour Save.

Heavy Support: Not a lot of change here

Long Fangs - No real change other than the heavy weapons having the same pricing and options as regular marines.
Tanks - all the same as their SM variants, not sure I'd take the Hunter and Stalker though, they have awesomely Wolfy names but I really just don't like them.Might have to come up with a different AA option. Either a Whirlwind Helios like model or an upgrade that grants a Dread that remained stationary Skyfire.

Stormwolf: You guessed it, the Stormraven or Space Wolf equivalent. I really can't find a good reason to make this not a part of the Wolves and can't find the inspiration for a Wolf Specific flyer.

Some Specific Gear and Rule changes - Any upgrade duplicated in the Marine 'dex would be done at the same price in the Wolve's dex. No more free Special Weapons.

Accute Senses for all models and Counter Attack for all models with an Attack score. Seeing as there is no Combat Squads and Combat Tactics for the Wolves, and most Wolf models are going to have a base price of 1 - 2 points higher than their Marine equivalent, I think it's fair.

Sagas - I want Sagas to matter. Tie in the completion of the listed quests to victory points, a +1 if you do it, maybe even a -1 if you fail. I think that if the Warlord has a Saga they should get an extra thing out of it, like Saga of the Hunter on the Warlord moving Scouts to Troops.

Mark of the Wulfen - I think that this could get trimmed a bit, turning it into Rampage. It'd still work with whatever CCW weapons you have, but no longer give Rending. Your marked models would be able to wade through

Wolf Banner - I touched on this one, make it a 1 per detachment thing instead of a 1 per grey hunters - maybe a radius of effect if it remains a 1 use only item.

Frost Weapons: As is, Pricing between Power Weapon and Power Fist

Wolf Claw: Lightning claw, but if you use them as a pair you get to re-roll your hits as well. Pricing between Power Weapon and Power Fist (ie same as Frost Weapons)

Chain Axes - I think these are really fitting fo the Wolves, add them into the pile, cheaper than a Power Weapon (but nowhere near as good)

Wolf Tail Talisman - Adamantium Will, done.

Runic Weapon: The primary purpose of this item i, like most things Space Wolves, to kick ass and take names. Make it a Force Stave, keep the Flesbane agaisnt Demons, add Fleshbane against Psykers and drop the disruption effect to that of a normal Psychic Hood. This way it will protect you until you get close enough to that hostile psyker to smack him upside the head and condemn him to the Warp. I don't like powers that tell the other army their special abilities which they spent points on just don't work. Besides, the Rune Priest needs to be cheaper.

Stuff I'm not touching:

Grav weapons - I can see that the Wolves logically should have these, but I detest the mechanic of them.
Centurions - again I can see the Wolves having these based on being around so long, but I don't feel they fit the Wolf-esque vibe
Thunderfire Cannon - I can't see the wolves being big into static artillery pieces, maybe a Rhino mounted version?
Hunter and Stalker - as mentioned above, I realy, really don't like them.
Attack Bikes - I don't think many SW would want to ride in a sidecar when they could have a bike of their own, no matter what weapon is there

I like most of those things up there, but why would a Lone wolf ever be an HQ choice?

Hq is an army leader correct?

Lone wolves dont fit the description, they are trying to regain the glory of their fallen pack mates by dying in battle with the biggest nasty they can find your general shouldnt be trying to die

just my opinion.

They aren't a leader in the strictest sense, which is why they can't be your warlord, forcing you to take a second HQ. But as a lone champion striding towards the enemy, I think they fit into that HQ mould, much like the Emperor's Champion does.

But they arent a blessed warrior chosen by the emperor

Nor are they a leader

Its more of an outcast role, they are for some reason the lone survivor of something that wiped out an entire pack. Through skill or through luck they have a mark of shame upon them, why would anyone glorify that?


I think they fit well in the elite slot (but I wish they just didnt take up a slot)

So how abut like servitors then? Make the Lone Wolf a unit taken if you have another unit. That way he isn't there to lead, but to redeem himself with a Lord/Priest as witness.

I can see why you would want Thunderwolf cavalry as elite, however They are better suited to the fast attack, I had toyed with the idea of allowing wolf guard to take thunderwolves aswell, but that would lead to crazy list builds with up to 6 wolf packs within 1 army.
It also then mans duelling with wolf guards who will be used as pack leaders and also units in their own right... Plus again dreads, scouts & lone wolves.
Iron Priests should be HQ just as the other priests are.. And all HQ's should get the option to take a wolf guard retinue outside of the FOC, in line with the SM codex.
Lone Wolves are an interesting option because they seek death and are not a scoring unit in any way shape or form... Why not 1 Lone Wolf can be purchased for each blood claw unit in the army... As the blood claws are new inductees brought in to replace the pack lost in battle and of which the lone wolf is the only survivor, seeking atonement for the shame of not dying with his brothers...

I like most of the ideas
Wolf Standard: In the 3rd Edition Codex it was a One per army thing.
I could see them being something like all of the other armies with 2-4 different types.
>Wolf Assault Banner: Similar to the current Wolf Standard, 12”r
>Wolf Dakka Banner: Makes Bolt Guns 3/2 Volley
>Faith in the Wolf Banner: 6”-12” FNP
Wolf Guard: I like the idea of a Wolf Bodyguard, though separate from the normal Wolf Guard.
>1-5 Wolf Guard with the option to be set up like the Wolf Guard.
>Biker Lord: Bodyguard can take Bike
>Thunderlord: Can take Thunderwolves.
Wolf Guard Thunderwolves: Thunderwolf Cavalry are already Wolf Guard, though being able to take Wolf Guard Wargear would be nice.
Mark of the Wolfen: I like the Rampage idea, especially if they got to keep the second weapon and the Rending.
Lone Wolves: Though I would say restrict them to the number of Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, Wolf Scouts and/or Thunderwolf Cavalry. They are also the last of their Pack. It would also be nice of they could take a Thunderwolf.
Swiftclaws: I could see loosing the Attack Bike, that or just be able to take Attack Bike Packs.
Skyclaws: Loose the MotW, they are to young to have developed it yet.
USR: Lots of little Changes
>Counter Attack #1: Everyone, but the Long Fangs, it is beneath them to run around like young pups.
>Counter Attack #2: Preplaced it with Rampage.
>Acute Senses: Either keeps it, for fluff if anything or change it to Night Fighting.
The Sagas: Making them more like Chapter Tactics, but the Army gets the Saga of your Warlord.
>Saga of the Wolfkin: Change little, but Loosing extra Victory Points for every Pack Killed. May take Thunderwolf Cavalry as Elite or Fast Attack. May take Fenrisian Wolves as Troops or Fast attacks.
>Saga of the Bear: Little Change, Army wide FNP [6+].
>Saga of Majesty: Makes the Re-Rolls 6”, but can use the LD Army Wide.
>Saga of the Hunter: Gives 1d3 Units Outflank and the Warlord can use “Behind Enemy Line” if with Wolf Scouts. This can not be taken with Terminator Armor.
>Saga of the Warrior Born: All Characters can Re-Roll 1s during the 1st turn of the Assault.
>Saga of the Beast Slayer: Army Wide Preferred Enemy: Monstrous Creatures
>Saga of the Iron Wolf: +1 to Repair Rolls, May take all Dreadnaughts as Elite or Heavy Support.

 Anpu42 wrote:

The Sagas: Making them more like Chapter Tactics, but the Army gets the Saga of your Warlord.
>Saga of the Wolfkin: Change little, but Loosing extra Victory Points for every Pack Killed. May take Thunderwolf Cavalry as Elite or Fast Attack. May take Fenrisian Wolves as Troops or Fast attacks.
>Saga of the Bear: Little Change, Army wide FNP [6+].
>Saga of Majesty: Makes the Re-Rolls 6”, but can use the LD Army Wide.
>Saga of the Hunter: Gives 1d3 Units Outflank and the Warlord can use “Behind Enemy Line” if with Wolf Scouts. This can not be taken with Terminator Armor.
>Saga of the Warrior Born: All Characters can Re-Roll 1s during the 1st turn of the Assault.
>Saga of the Beast Slayer: Army Wide Preferred Enemy: Monstrous Creatures
>Saga of the Iron Wolf: +1 to Repair Rolls, May take all Dreadnaughts as Elite or Heavy Support.

And now we're back to Sillyville again. You want Chapter Tactics on top of your Chapter Tactics? Really?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

The Sagas: Making them more like Chapter Tactics, but the Army gets the Saga of your Warlord.
>Saga of the Wolfkin: Change little, but Loosing extra Victory Points for every Pack Killed. May take Thunderwolf Cavalry as Elite or Fast Attack. May take Fenrisian Wolves as Troops or Fast attacks.
>Saga of the Bear: Little Change, Army wide FNP [6+].
>Saga of Majesty: Makes the Re-Rolls 6”, but can use the LD Army Wide.
>Saga of the Hunter: Gives 1d3 Units Outflank and the Warlord can use “Behind Enemy Line” if with Wolf Scouts. This can not be taken with Terminator Armor.
>Saga of the Warrior Born: All Characters can Re-Roll 1s during the 1st turn of the Assault.
>Saga of the Beast Slayer: Army Wide Preferred Enemy: Monstrous Creatures
>Saga of the Iron Wolf: +1 to Repair Rolls, May take all Dreadnaughts as Elite or Heavy Support.

And now we're back to Sillyville again. You want Chapter Tactics on top of your Chapter Tactics? Really?

If we are paying points for them Yes, if not then they are not, no.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I like most of the ideas
Wolf Standard: In the 3rd Edition Codex it was a One per army thing.
I could see them being something like all of the other armies with 2-4 different types.
>Wolf Assault Banner: Similar to the current Wolf Standard, 12”r
>Wolf Dakka Banner: Makes Bolt Guns 3/2 Volley
>Faith in the Wolf Banner: 6”-12” FNP

As a long standing DA player I take offense to this. Banners are the only thing fluffy and at least useful in our codex. The sacred banners have been a DA thing since 2nd edition so in no way should SW get them. There is no reason and no precedent for that.

For the list as a whole I see alot of SM +1 and DA +1.

 FirePainter wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I like most of the ideas
Wolf Standard: In the 3rd Edition Codex it was a One per army thing.
I could see them being something like all of the other armies with 2-4 different types.
>Wolf Assault Banner: Similar to the current Wolf Standard, 12”r
>Wolf Dakka Banner: Makes Bolt Guns 3/2 Volley
>Faith in the Wolf Banner: 6”-12” FNP

As a long standing DA player I take offense to this. Banners are the only thing fluffy and at least useful in our codex. The sacred banners have been a DA thing since 2nd edition so in no way should SW get them. There is no reason and no precedent for that.

For the list as a whole I see alot of SM +1 and DA +1.

Especially when you realize he gave them a salvo banner and 12" FNP.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I like most of the ideas
Wolf Standard: In the 3rd Edition Codex it was a One per army thing.
I could see them being something like all of the other armies with 2-4 different types.
>Wolf Assault Banner: Similar to the current Wolf Standard, 12”r
>Wolf Dakka Banner: Makes Bolt Guns 3/2 Volley
>Faith in the Wolf Banner: 6”-12” FNP

As a long standing DA player I take offense to this. Banners are the only thing fluffy and at least useful in our codex. The sacred banners have been a DA thing since 2nd edition so in no way should SW get them. There is no reason and no precedent for that.

For the list as a whole I see alot of SM +1 and DA +1.

Especially when you realize he gave them a salvo banner and 12" FNP.

Well that is were I got the idea from.

Well he is a better Expiation on the Idea about the Sagas with some more thought behind it.

The Sagas: Making them more like Chapter Tactics, but the Army gets the Saga of your Warlord. Now I am using the formula set by Codex Space Marines where each Chapter Tactics gave you ATSKNF and 2 (or more) Special Rules/USR. These are not including what the individual Warlord gets.
>Saga of Majesty: ATSKNF, Stubborn [1], Counter Attack [2]
>Saga of the Bear: ATSKNF, FNP (6+) [1], Furious Charge [2]
>Saga of the Beast Slayer: ATSKNF, Preferred Enemy (Monstrous Creatures) [1], Characters gain one Mastercraft Weapon [2]
>Saga of the Hunter: ATSKNF, Stealth [1], Move Though Cover [2]. Also 1d3 Units can Outflank [3]
>Saga of the Iron Wolf: ATSKNF, Tank/Structure Hunter [1], Dreadnaughts can be Elite or Heavy Support [2].
>Saga of the Warrior Born: ATSKNF, Counter Attack [1], Crusader [2]
>Saga of the Wolfkin: ATSKNF, Move Though Cover [1], Thunderwolf Cavalry can be Elite or Fast Attack [2], Fenrisian Wolves may be Troops or Fast Attack [3].

That and I see no reason for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knight and Space Wolves being able to be Space Marines +1, that is part of the reason they have their own Codex.

The banner is there now and a model is made for it. Currently one can be sent in with each unit of Grey Hunters, which is way too much.

A banner with more limited availability, but an area effect makes sense as a replacement. What it will actually do is up for debate. I personally think that it should offset the SW LD disadvantage or add to their 'teeth' in close combat. It shouldn't be a direct copy of another chapter's stuff, especially if it does it better.

I had an interesting thought regarding Counter Attack. If its on the Wolfguard and the Independant characters, then it doesn't need to be on the other units, as all it takes is one model in the squad to give the ability to the whole squad. It'd need a replacement however, or a point drop for the units that lose it.

If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

And no, having separate Codices doesn't mean they should be Space Marines +1, it means they should be Space Marines +X -Y. Not strictly better at everything, like SW in 5th.

Jefffar wrote:
The banner is there now and a model is made for it. Currently one can be sent in with each unit of Grey Hunters, which is way too much.

A banner with more limited availability, but an area effect makes sense as a replacement. What it will actually do is up for debate. I personally think that it should offset the SW LD disadvantage or add to their 'teeth' in close combat. It shouldn't be a direct copy of another chapter's stuff, especially if it does it better.

I had an interesting thought regarding Counter Attack. If its on the Wolfguard and the Independant characters, then it doesn't need to be on the other units, as all it takes is one model in the squad to give the ability to the whole squad. It'd need a replacement however, or a point drop for the units that lose it.

That’s an idea
Counter Attack for Characters, Wolf Guard, Thunderwolves (after all they are basically Wolf Guard) and Fenrisian Wolves.
Wolf Banner gives Grey Hunters Counter Attack with the One use Re-Roll Ones in Close Combat.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

And no, having separate Codices doesn't mean they should be Space Marines +1, it means they should be Space Marines +X -Y. Not strictly better at everything, like SW in 5th.

I see nothing wrong with it, but I am still willing to pay the premium for that ability.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I feel that any ability that has a chance of failure (LD 8 on most SW units) is no way worth 3 points PPM.

But as with all things in this thread, this particular dead horse is now nothing but smashed bones at this point.

Its sad that people cant just agree to disagree on GH subject and talk about all the other things that could be changed.

We're not the ones bringing it up, Anpu keeps insisting the GH are fine when they simply aren't. He's honestly bringing it upon himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I like most of the ideas
Wolf Standard: In the 3rd Edition Codex it was a One per army thing.
I could see them being something like all of the other armies with 2-4 different types.
>Wolf Assault Banner: Similar to the current Wolf Standard, 12”r
>Wolf Dakka Banner: Makes Bolt Guns 3/2 Volley
>Faith in the Wolf Banner: 6”-12” FNP

As a long standing DA player I take offense to this. Banners are the only thing fluffy and at least useful in our codex. The sacred banners have been a DA thing since 2nd edition so in no way should SW get them. There is no reason and no precedent for that.

For the list as a whole I see alot of SM +1 and DA +1.

Especially when you realize he gave them a salvo banner and 12" FNP.

Well that is were I got the idea from.

Well he is a better Expiation on the Idea about the Sagas with some more thought behind it.

The Sagas: Making them more like Chapter Tactics, but the Army gets the Saga of your Warlord. Now I am using the formula set by Codex Space Marines where each Chapter Tactics gave you ATSKNF and 2 (or more) Special Rules/USR. These are not including what the individual Warlord gets.
>Saga of Majesty: ATSKNF, Stubborn [1], Counter Attack [2]
>Saga of the Bear: ATSKNF, FNP (6+) [1], Furious Charge [2]
>Saga of the Beast Slayer: ATSKNF, Preferred Enemy (Monstrous Creatures) [1], Characters gain one Mastercraft Weapon [2]
>Saga of the Hunter: ATSKNF, Stealth [1], Move Though Cover [2]. Also 1d3 Units can Outflank [3]
>Saga of the Iron Wolf: ATSKNF, Tank/Structure Hunter [1], Dreadnaughts can be Elite or Heavy Support [2].
>Saga of the Warrior Born: ATSKNF, Counter Attack [1], Crusader [2]
>Saga of the Wolfkin: ATSKNF, Move Though Cover [1], Thunderwolf Cavalry can be Elite or Fast Attack [2], Fenrisian Wolves may be Troops or Fast Attack [3].

That and I see no reason for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knight and Space Wolves being able to be Space Marines +1, that is part of the reason they have their own Codex.

The Salvo Banner is the only thing that makes DA slightly better, and even then you have to put it in a 5-man squad and it only affects units within 12". DA are not +1.
BLOOD ANGELS ARE NOT SM+1. Blood Angels are SM -5, they're literally worse in almost every single way.
Grey Knights are no longer better than SMs because of the plasma meta at the moment.
The only thing that's SM+1 here is SW and their GH.

The Salvo Banner is the only thing that makes DA slightly better, and even then you have to put it in a 5-man squad and it only affects units within 12". DA are not +1.
BLOOD ANGELS ARE NOT SM+1. Blood Angels are SM -5, they're literally worse in almost every single way.
Grey Knights are no longer better than SMs because of the plasma meta at the moment.
The only thing that's SM+1 here is SW and their GH.


Oh now .. quit it ... BA are competitive because they have fast vehicles.

OT: This list has turned into a fairytale wishlist of complete overpowered, I will Wolfrape you, list of rules to make them so much more over the top than what they already are.

I never refered to BA. DA have banners besides the dakka banner one of which grants FNP. That is not counting the third sacred standard, the deathwing banner, the ravenwing standard, company banner, chapter banner, and revered standard. Banners are a DA thing and have been for quite some time.

Again never mentioned BA or GK

 FirePainter wrote:
I never refered to BA. DA have banners besides the dakka banner one of which grants FNP. That is not counting the third sacred standard, the deathwing banner, the ravenwing standard, company banner, chapter banner, and revered standard. Banners are a DA thing and have been for quite some time.

Again never mentioned BA or GK

Lrn 2 reed.
I quoted Anpu, who had quoted you. I wasn't referring to your quote

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
I never refered to BA. DA have banners besides the dakka banner one of which grants FNP. That is not counting the third sacred standard, the deathwing banner, the ravenwing standard, company banner, chapter banner, and revered standard. Banners are a DA thing and have been for quite some time.

Again never mentioned BA or GK

Lrn 2 reed.
I quoted Anpu, who had quoted you. I wasn't referring to your quote

Apologies to you good sir

Yes this has been a Wish List
I am not trying to make something completely Over Powered.
I have constantly been Adapting and modified things as we are going along.

I don’t want an OP Codex, I just a good one.

Yes I believe that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves should be Space Marines +1 and are willing to pay for it.
Note the key words SOULD and PAY.

 FirePainter wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
I never refered to BA. DA have banners besides the dakka banner one of which grants FNP. That is not counting the third sacred standard, the deathwing banner, the ravenwing standard, company banner, chapter banner, and revered standard. Banners are a DA thing and have been for quite some time.

Again never mentioned BA or GK

Lrn 2 reed.
I quoted Anpu, who had quoted you. I wasn't referring to your quote

Apologies to you good sir

Nah it's no problem, I agree that in some situations DA are SM+1 but they are also SM-1 in some situations, for example they do not have access to Centurions and their Veterans aren't as good as SM ones. They also don't have access to grav-weapons, Honour Guard and Assault Terminators

Yeah DA have been shafted for at least the two codices I have from them (4th and 6th) coming out before SM and not getting all the new updates. I personally don't mind no centurions or grav-weapons. But would it kill them to make us at least on par with regular marines? Would it really? I love my terminators and have a great many but don't use them because of gak rules.

OT: Anpu42 no codex should be another codex +1 they can and should be different and have uniqueness but they should not be strictly better than any other codex regardless of what they pay in points.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

Well CSM did have them before..Then they took them away.

Imperial Guard did as well, and some other armies (Nids had a whole mechanic dedicated to biomorphs shifting units abilities up and down)

I am using the term Combat Tactics becouse I can not think of a beter term that people would understand.

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

It's kind of interesting. I can easily see the argument for IG, Eldar, CSM, Orks, maybe Sisters of Battle, and ...Necrons possibly? For DE, Nids, BA, SW, GK, etc.... yeah not so much. Heck, I play chaos daemons and I'd raise a brow at DAEMONS TACTICS. I must say though, I would still appreciate if Tau had a force org swap for a stealth suit army but alas seems they didn't want such a thing (or waiting to sell a supplement for it)

Anyways, I gotta ask.... why do you want DA, BA, and SW to all be SM+1? Why? It should never be like this. This undervalues a fan of every chapter that doesn't have their own codex. It should never be that. It should be SM-some stuff+some stuff. Sacrifice a few choices for a few unique options. That's the charm. The charm of those 3 chapters was never supposed to be "yeah we are better than those SM chapters" it was supposed to be "we do _____ differently". DA are the more shooty army with a liking for bikes and, most notably, many terminators. BA are the very fast assault army that descends from the skies and swiftly assaults the enemy, and SW are the ones that ignore the codex and bring a combo of novices in power armor with counterattack methods.

I think that the 1 banner per grey hunter squad was way too OP.
Bring it back to 1 banner in a squad per army as was in the older codices.
I also agree that SW, BA, DA, GK codices should not all be SM+1, it should be unique SM, but still at the same level as SM.
So is SW dont get certain things such as centurions etc then I see it as a trade off that SW get something else, or another unit getd amped slightly to compensate. Any buffing of a unit should incur the correct point increase so as not to allow the codex to be abused.
As for saga's, these are an individual warriors story or ability... They shouldnt confer anything army wide, maybe to themselves or to the unit they are in.
Next, unless the next codex changes, codex SW is the only codex wwhich specifies who all the company leaders are and their specific traits and fighting styles for their companies, so company rater than chapter tactics may well apply in this case so people can build unique SW armies.
Motw should apply to bloodclaws ad their troop ttype, probably more so than any other type of unit, as the younger more inexperienced warriors they are still rrying to learn to deal with th the wolf spirit inside them. Case in point is either redpelt or helfist in Battle of the Fang, of which 1 of these 2 bloodclaws succumbs to the wulfen.... Long fangs shouldnt get it, and not so sure greyhunters should either... As they would have grown at peace with the wolf within. Counter attack is their way of allowing the wolf ti the fore without letting it take over completely.... Scouts as loners and outcasts should get MOTW.
Feet on the ground. This is a thing regarding teleporting only and is a part of their uniqueness.. They regard spaceships and speeders as vessels to get to war, like a longship. Jump packs are not viewed favourably because if a wolf was supposed to fly he would have wings...

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

It's kind of interesting. I can easily see the argument for IG, Eldar, CSM, Orks, maybe Sisters of Battle, and ...Necrons possibly? For DE, Nids, BA, SW, GK, etc.... yeah not so much. Heck, I play chaos daemons and I'd raise a brow at DAEMONS TACTICS. I must say though, I would still appreciate if Tau had a force org swap for a stealth suit army but alas seems they didn't want such a thing (or waiting to sell a supplement for it)

Anyways, I gotta ask.... why do you want DA, BA, and SW to all be SM+1? Why? It should never be like this. This undervalues a fan of every chapter that doesn't have their own codex. It should never be that. It should be SM-some stuff+some stuff. Sacrifice a few choices for a few unique options. That's the charm. The charm of those 3 chapters was never supposed to be "yeah we are better than those SM chapters" it was supposed to be "we do _____ differently". DA are the more shooty army with a liking for bikes and, most notably, many terminators. BA are the very fast assault army that descends from the skies and swiftly assaults the enemy, and SW are the ones that ignore the codex and bring a combo of novices in power armor with counterattack methods.

Daemons do technically have their own tactics.

Daemons of X and all.

DE would have Wych-cult, Kabal, and the other thing.

The problem with DA and BA is that they aren't that good, DA is in the same edition and it feels far poorer.