Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was kind of hoping for it to be Hive.

The first episode was fine.

I think the key issues with it were:

1. It ripped through The First Avenger's plot with basically no moments to breathe.
2. It didn't really do enough with the concept. If Steve had died in that explosion, then maybe, but all it really gave us was a bodyswap. The story beats stayed the same.

So, to answer Uatu's "What if Agent Carter had stayed in the room during the super soldier experiment?": Not much different to what would have happened if she hadn't. *shrugs*

Next week is the T'Challa = Star Lord episode. I hope it's not just T'Challa plays the role of Star Lord but otherwise GOTG plays out the same as it did in the movie.

These are animated versions of the What If...? comic. It's mostly going to be twists on the others story beats in condensed versions of the movies.

The comics are exactly the same. What If Civil War is 5 short stories in a single slightly bigger than normal issue covering twists on what was multiple trades + tie ins.

It thought it was quite good. Good animation style.

 Lance845 wrote:
These are animated versions of the What If...? comic. It's mostly going to be twists on the others story beats in condensed versions of the movies.

The comics are exactly the same. What If Civil War is 5 short stories in a single slightly bigger than normal issue covering twists on what was multiple trades + tie ins.

I remember very different What If...? comics.
What if Jean Grey didn't die on the moon? What if the terrigen mist actually covered the Earth? Those were massive derails to the storylines with intense consequences.
Some were a little creepy. Jane Foster as Thor, ending up as a goddess married to Odin.
Wolverine killing both Hulk and Magneto.

It gets pretty crazy, but also a vehicle for the 'shock value' of killing off characters with no consequence.

Voss wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
These are animated versions of the What If...? comic. It's mostly going to be twists on the others story beats in condensed versions of the movies.

The comics are exactly the same. What If Civil War is 5 short stories in a single slightly bigger than normal issue covering twists on what was multiple trades + tie ins.

I remember very different What If...? comics.
What if Jean Grey didn't die on the moon? What if the terrigen mist actually covered the Earth? Those were massive derails to the storylines with intense consequences.
Some were a little creepy. Jane Foster as Thor, ending up as a goddess married to Odin.
Wolverine killing both Hulk and Magneto.

It gets pretty crazy, but also a vehicle for the 'shock value' of killing off characters with no consequence.

Well yes, I agree. But the point I a making wasn't the degree of divergence. It was how short the entries were. Even when the consequences were wild they don't get a huge page count.

But then you have to remember how little of marvel is in the MCU so far. It's not like we are going to get What if the Punisher was Venom any time soon. There really are not THAT many characters to play with yet. And in WWII there is basically noone.

Oh, well, yeah. These are going to be ~20-odd minute shows, unless they do multi-part episodes.

But the point is, trying to race through 'condensed versions' of the movies, but with different character swaps, is a terrible choice for this format. This show can (and should) go all in on changes that make big (or interesting) shifts in the setting. Thanos as an Avenger was a big one for the comic, for example. Iron Man burning out his heart battery to build an 'Iron Avengers' team after the other 'founding' Avengers walk away was another.
They don't need to be long, they just need to be broader in scope than 'What if Captain America was a foreigner with an accent and breasts? Amazing!'

---
From a series perspective, 'What if... Female Thor? was still vaguely ground-breaking in 1970-whatever (though it ended in a creepy spring-summer romance with Odin). In 2021, the equivalent story is a... yeah? and?
For an intro episode to the series concept, its weirdly out of date and out of touch. And conceived and executed in the most boring way possible.

I imagine as the series goes on they'll get more creative.

I am secretly hoping that the point of all this isn't just to tell stories of alternate versions of the movies, but to end up with a animated movie/show of Exiles.

Ok, Captain Carter was cool as hell, but there have been some complaints that's it's just a hero swap.

However, in this universe, there is:

a) No Winter Soldier

So how many assassinations didn't happen? Is Howard Stark still alive? No Iron Man. Tony won't get captured due to Obidiah's manipulations.

b) Zola and the Tesseract were captured a LOT earlier

So no winter soldiers at all, never mind Bucky. No WWII hydratech. So why would Shield recruit Zola in their operation paperclip? No Hydra 5th column in SHIELD.

c) Carter is out of the picture

Would SHIELD exist? Would Rodgers still set up such an organisation? Something still exists so obviously Howard set it up - will it still be the same without Peggy's influence? Would Steve run it in anything like the same way?

If there's one of these per series, there's a lot to explore there.

Teasingly, seemingly no easy info on the next episode.

Expect spoiler tags tomorrow morning!

I agree with all, that a mere swap is not really a total alternate story; however, if it sets up big ramifications downstream (like pointed out above), then it could be understood.

I also eagerly await all of the episodes and do like the animation style.

 Graphite wrote:
Ok, Captain Carter was cool as hell, but there have been some complaints that's it's just a hero swap.

However, in this universe, there is:

a) No Winter Soldier

So how many assassinations didn't happen? Is Howard Stark still alive? No Iron Man. Tony won't get captured due to Obidiah's manipulations.

b) Zola and the Tesseract were captured a LOT earlier

So no winter soldiers at all, never mind Bucky. No WWII hydratech. So why would Shield recruit Zola in their operation paperclip? No Hydra 5th column in SHIELD.

c) Carter is out of the picture

Would SHIELD exist? Would Rodgers still set up such an organisation? Something still exists so obviously Howard set it up - will it still be the same without Peggy's influence? Would Steve run it in anything like the same way?

EDIT: Granted, as far as a speed run through a plot goes, it's pretty good. Just doesn't feel like it really capitalized on its premise at all. It actually would have been more interesting to assume the events of The First Avenger happened as we knew them, but with Carter, and then skip ahead to after Carter gets revived from the ice. Then we could have seen all the butterfly effects.

If there's one of these per series, there's a lot to explore there.

I think the issue, and this is the criticism I'd level, is that we didn't see any of that. None of the actual butterfly effects of the What If scenario came up in the episode. It was basically just Captain America with someone different. Any one of those things would have been interesting to see. But it's not what we saw.

A.) I believe Captain Carter is supposed to be ongoing, so we’ll see more of her and the ramifications as time goes on.

2.) Starlord was pretty good. I find it weird how strongly he stuck to the accent thru his whole life. I’d have thought he’d grow out of it without exposure to people speaking the same way.

 AduroT wrote:
A.) I believe Captain Carter is supposed to be ongoing, so we’ll see more of her and the ramifications as time goes on.

2.) Starlord was pretty good. I find it weird how strongly he stuck to the accent thru his whole life. I’d have thought he’d grow out of it without exposure to people speaking the same way.

Spoiler:

I love The Collector in this. It’s nice to see him get to show off his strength and power which the movies just didn’t see any of. I was surprised to see the Black Order working for him though. I thought they were rather uniquely devoted to Thanos and I’d have expected them to follow him to the Ravagers if he went there.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, The Black Order were basically all orphans conscripted and raised by Thanos to be his own personal elite unit, they would be pretty loyal to him regardless of what he chose to do, its not like they have ties to anyone else.

Also, kinda confused as to why Yondu wouldn't pick up Quill and drop back T'challa after his men fudged up the abduction. Hell, I expected them both to be on the ship if Yondu wanted to keep T'challa, since if I remember correctly, Yondu has the change of heart only when its half-way through his delivery after acquiring Quill.

I get its a what-if, but I do feel like T'challa has too much of an impact of the Ravagers as a merc/pirate force considering he's just a kid when he joins them. If anything, he would be molded by their influence as outlaws rather than the other way around. Just feels very odd for him to reform the organization to some kind of intergalactic famous equivalent of the Guardians of the Galaxy, considering he doesn't have any superpowers or access to Wakandan technology of his own.

I thoroughly enjoyed that. Bit heartbreaking as it was Chadwick Boseman voicing T’Challa.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shang-Chi has some initial and gushing reactions out.

And it’s just over two weeks until we can judge for ourselves with our eyes and our brains.

 Grimskul wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
A.) I believe Captain Carter is supposed to be ongoing, so we’ll see more of her and the ramifications as time goes on.

2.) Starlord was pretty good. I find it weird how strongly he stuck to the accent thru his whole life. I’d have thought he’d grow out of it without exposure to people speaking the same way.

Spoiler:

I love The Collector in this. It’s nice to see him get to show off his strength and power which the movies just didn’t see any of. I was surprised to see the Black Order working for him though. I thought they were rather uniquely devoted to Thanos and I’d have expected them to follow him to the Ravagers if he went there.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, The Black Order were basically all orphans conscripted and raised by Thanos to be his own personal elite unit, they would be pretty loyal to him regardless of what he chose to do, its not like they have ties to anyone else.

Also, kinda confused as to why Yondu wouldn't pick up Quill and drop back T'challa after his men fudged up the abduction. Hell, I expected them both to be on the ship if Yondu wanted to keep T'challa, since if I remember correctly, Yondu has the change of heart only when its half-way through his delivery after acquiring Quill.

I get its a what-if, but I do feel like T'challa has too much of an impact of the Ravagers as a merc/pirate force considering he's just a kid when he joins them. If anything, he would be molded by their influence as outlaws rather than the other way around. Just feels very odd for him to reform the organization to some kind of intergalactic famous equivalent of the Guardians of the Galaxy, considering he doesn't have any superpowers or access to Wakandan technology of his own.

Its a bit farcical, to be honest. Its.. alright, I suppose? But like that issue, it does expect you to just accept the short non-answers to big questions and enjoy the ride.
The ride is a bit uneven, but at least it goes somewhere.

Enjoyed both so far.

Thanos with the good Hulk joke in episode 2.

Well that was a nice improvement.

I mean, it's a bit much that T'Challa alone was able to:

1. Turn the Ravagers into altruistic good guys.
2. Become such a hero that people know him on sight and will abandon their own allegiances and join with him.
3. Convinced Thanos to abandon his plan and join the Ravagers.

Can he walk on water and heal the sick as well?

In any case, this is what I wanted to see from a What If...? series. Actual deviation from previous plots, not just a near-mirror swap like the last one. I also like the twist with Ego, as that's a fun part of these kinds of stories: It looks so much better overall, but it is actually worse in the end because of unforeseen consequences.

I loved the start-studded cast as well: Korath, Femme Fatale Nebula (She's a blonde! Who knew?), Kraglin, Yondu, Taserface, Thanos, The Collector, T'Chaka (voiced by John Kani from Civil War/BP), Carina (played by the original actress), Howard the Duck (again, same actor), Ebony Maw and Proxima Midnight (again, original actors), even Okoye was there (original actor again). And Kurt Russel back as Ego, with one line!

And of course, our final performance of Chadwick as T'Challa. I think? Is there another What If...? episode with T'Challa in it?

Drax and Corvus were there, but not the original actors for some weird reason.

In any case, this was loads of fun.

There are apparently 4 episodes that Boseman will be in in some capacity. Probably lesser capacities.

While the alternate Starlord universe will not have the same group, I sorely miss Drax and really chuckled at his 'cameo' as the bartender. I want to see more of him, as he is such a comedic character without trying to be.

This one was a whole lot less logical but dramatically more fun and engaging. The last one just felt too safe, but this one really went all out on reimagining so many beloved characters to tell a good, one shot story.

I was surprised the miracle seeds weren’t Groot.

 MDSW wrote:
While the alternate Starlord universe will not have the same group, I sorely miss Drax and really chuckled at his 'cameo' as the bartender. I want to see more of him, as he is such a comedic character without trying to be.

Yeah. Drax is a fantastic comedy character. Incredibly funny, and not falling into the waaaaaaaaaacky crazy comedy sidekick wisecrack dude.

 AduroT wrote:
I was surprised the miracle seeds weren’t Groot.

I'm reasonably certain they're an actual thing in marvel comics. Iirc the post-film GotG cartoon feature them (or something basically just like them) that sprouted vines all over Knowhere in much the same way.
But while this was a Starlord swap, it didn't work to get the gang together. Even Drax was a bit too much of a stretch, to be honest.

Mad Doc wrote:Yeah. Drax is a fantastic comedy character. Incredibly funny, and not falling into the waaaaaaaaaacky crazy comedy sidekick wisecrack dude.

For me with Drax, it depends how well they're sticking to the stoic, overly literal straightman (GotG2 didn't do well with that, and he kinda got swamped out of Endgame).

One of the downsides of this was that everyone was basically crazy comedy sidekick wisecrack dude, or at least taking turns at it. It mostly worked, but they didn't quite thread the needle between 'comedic heist' and 'dark undertone,' and bounced off 'farce' several times along the way, because the various minions kept cracking wise.

Well, that's because this was a Robin Hood story. They reference it several times. Robin Hood and his merry men...

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Well, that's because this was a Robin Hood story. They reference it several times. Robin Hood and his merry men...

That's a really good mindset to have going in. Everyone's having a great time, don't ask too many questions. Starlord- Ravagers in Tights.

I lost? I'm not supposed to lose! Let me see that script. I lost?

I thought it was very entertaining, andis definitely a standout.

"Captain Genocide"

Honestly,
I do look forward to seeing the rest of the series, as I've enjoyed the first two episodes. The animation is gorgeous.

And of course it was nice seeing Chadwick Boseman (or rather hearing him) play T'challa one more time.

Apologies for drawing everyone back by about 8 years, but my wife and I have been watching agents of shield and just hit the best joke ever in season 2 and just had to share:

“Move it Trainspotting”

“I’m not Scottish!”

Ah, class.