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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Okay id first like to say that I LOVE the 40K fluff.  It is truely my favorite thing about the game and ive been playing for over 10 years.  The history is unparalled with scifi gaming (in my opinion of course) and I think it really adds to the feel of every game you play if you know more about it.

Okay on with the reason for the post.

The guys I game with and I have been talking about this for a long time, the fluff for the 41st millenium has become stagnant and stale.  Everytime they do something like another Black Crusade that ends in a stalemant it saddens my soul.  I want to see them forward the storyline (much like WarMachine does).  Please Games Workshop allow something to happen with your game.  Allow it to continue forward by any means necessary.  I have my own ideas of ways that would be awesome to see things "move on" but I dont want to get to lengthy so ill just throw one out there.

Bring the primarchs back (if only in fluff, that would atleast be something)...it is mentioned all over the place about a "return".  Primarchs are healing in stasis fields and Russ told all the wolves that he would return when they needed him.  I guess im just saying that it would be awesome if the commanders of armies in the 41st millenium had something to strive for.  A sense of urgency that winning or loosing battles felt like they were part of a greater scheme and not just a struggle from game to game.  Kill off some personalities, make some new ones, make some old ones better......SOMETHING to give the world a "change".

Well thats my rant for now, possibly more to come if anyone replies.

Courage Honor Wisdom.
 
   
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[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Posted By Vult on 12/04/2006 5:10 PM
Russ told all the wolves that he would return when they needed him.

I find it interesting that so many people take the fact that Russ said he would return as some sort of proof that it will actually happen...


 
   
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I thoroughly disagree with the overall sentiment.

As fun as a change in the 40k universe might be in the short-term, in the long run the galaxy as a whole is a backdrop for an infinite amount of smaller stories set within it.

Changing something major in the fluff means changes would need to be made to many, if not all armies.


It's like the on-again off-again relationship on the TV show 'The Office'. You may think you want them to hook up, but once that happens the plot is never truly interesting again.

Sure the Primarchs come back but then what? Ultimately you really want to see some resolution which would mean something like the Tyranid fleets are wpied out or the Imperium crumbles or Chaos is defeated.

All of those premises sound really interesting until you realize they lead to a dead end eventually, and worse, a dead end that would require a major change (if not removal) of an existing army type.

The fact will always remain that a story continually perched upon the egde of a precipice is more interesting than a storyline that has been resolved.


I like the 40k universe exactly where it is. The only thing I would really like to happen would be for the Imperium to make some gains in some area. We only ever hear about worlds being destroyed, lost, etc to the enemy. I would love to hear about a successful crusade that took something major back from somebody. Or Eldar that successfully carve out a new empire.

Basically I'd like a small reversal of the continual themes.


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Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

Of course it stagnant. "In the grim darkeness of the far future, there is only war!"

Nothing else, just war.

It would be nice if BL would make some books prgressing matters though. It doesnt have to be in the game, but the story should certainly continue without the aide of a codex release (The book "nightbringer" comes to mind, right before codex necron.)

   
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Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Many many years ago, when 2nd Edition was in the wane, and 3rd Edition was gearing up, there was a rumour going about that GW was going to do something that shook the 40K Galaxy to the core.

The Emperor was going to die.

Not just his mortal shell, but spirit as well. He would fail in his fight to hold the chaos forces from fully spilling from the Immaterium into the Materium (which was the popular belief of what the Emperor was doing at the time).

Now obviously, that never happened. But something along those lines would probably bring a truly fresh new look to the game.

Have a new Hive Fleet decimate Ultramar, and punch into the galaxy farther then any other before, much like Kryptman forecasted. Have the Void Dragon awaken on Mars and split the Imperium into two as the Adeptus Mechanicus broke into Civil War over this. With the Gene Seed stock that Abaddon captured prior to the 13th Crusade, and the thousands apon thousands of new Chaos Marines grown from it have the 14th Crusade shatter the Cadian Gate and do what they never accomplished before.

The 40K Galaxy has been rather "stagnant" the past 20 years or so. I for one would love to see a huge shake up, and I'm pretty sure many others would as well.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
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Correct me if I'm wrong, and I know you will, but didnt the Eye of Terror campain downplay the importance of Cadia after all the ground combat Chaos won?


   
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Fort Campbell

I don't know myself. I was in a 40K Hiatus during the EoT Campaign. But the Cadian Gate as a whole is still the only large, safe, exit point from the EoT. Abaddon would wants to control it so he can uncontestedly get his forces from the Eye of Terror to the rest of the galaxy.

And I think GW was "forced" to downplay it all since they didn't want to go through with one of these ground breaking things that we're discussing.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut



Still trying to operate tape cassettes

I have to be honest, I don't think the Nids need to be doing any better than they are, fluff-wise. I picked up the newest Nid dex the other day, and they seem to be overrunning the galaxy as it is. If you take the storyline further forward by a few decades, the Nids will be everywhere anyway. The Kryptmann story in the book was quite impressive.

As Yakface said, I'd like to see the Imperium doing well. (I think this was maentioned in a thread on old Dakka.) I'd like to see them overrun an Ork empire, or advance into the Halo Stars or Ghost Stars, or maybe even actually kill some CSM's. It would be nice to see an assault into the Eye of Terror that saw more than millions of soldiers left to die because of possible taint, maybe a strike against one of the legions Daemon Worlds. Removing a daemonic Primarch wouldn't make a lot of difference to the fluff, they don't actually do anything anyway.

And as mentioned, there's so much going on anyway, something titanic could happen every minute that wouldn't affect the galaxy too badly. Grypphone has fallen, Armageddon is in a state of perpetual war, yet there are still plenty of guns and men out there.

GW have shot themselves in the foot a little, taking the perspective of the Imperium for most fluff sources. At first I though it was a good idea, but the Tau EMpire codex fells, for example, to me as if it's been written a little too impartially. It would be great to hear in more detail of the warring between Orks and Chaos, both of whom require vast amounts of resources and space, rather than having both constantly picking off Imperial worlds. The idea that the galaxy is all at war has been superceded a little too much by the Imperium being constantly under threat, and it sort of ignores the fact that everybody, even Nids and Orks, are fighting to survive.

I Ate Your Bees 
   
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Fort Campbell

Story wise, I think it's to hard for them to take a novel like perspective for something other then the humans. Could you imagine reading a 300 page story about an Ork Warlords everyday life? It would get pretty repetitive IMO...

And seeing the Imperium do something good would be cool as well, I just through out all the "Death to Imperium" things since those are all some pretty good potential smoking guns.

Maybe a massive upheavel within the beuracracy that is the Imperium. A movement that is towards more enlightenment then perpetual self imposed dark ages. Because thats what the Imperium is in again, another Dark Age. It had a brief renessaince with the Emperor moving out to woop butt, but with his fall that ended. Something needs to come along to bring that about again. The game itself could remain as is, no huge changes would need to be made, but fluff wise a nice face lift would be made.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





First off thank you all for taking the time to reply.  I appreciate all the input and respect your individual beliefs on the matter.

To remark about the "Russ" situation its not so much a belief that he is going to come back as just another notion that GW put into the dex's to make us believe something "bigger" is going to happen "sometime".  I mean there is also mention of the Phoenix Lords and what order they are going to die in (in the final battle).  I think it was Fugeon that was supposed to be last...but not sure.

As far as the statement goes as to if GW moves the storyline on it will eventually die I think this is totally wrong.  It is Scifi and the only limit to what they can do is imagination.  It doesnt have to be all happy fun time for the space marines and the imperium at first....it could start out bad for them and make them have to go through a rebuilding period or something.  As a pure Grey Knights player I would love to have the feeling that my back is against the wall and every battle won is for the life of the imperium. 

Someone also mentioned talk of the death of the emperor.  I had a huge thread a few years ago on the old Dakka about this.  It is my personal opinion (and ill try not to get to long winded here) that the High Lords of Terra have kept the Emperor in statis because his body is dead and unusable and his spirit is trapped there.  Thus if the emperor's body was allowed to die he could be reborn thus removing a huge portion of power from the High Lords.  I could go on for hours about my view of this particular part of the fluff but maybe I can do another thread about that.

The simple truth is GW eludes to a great scheme of things in so many places but never does anything with it.  I think this hurts their storyline (which I said before that I really do love) and also the game.  I read as many of the novels as I can and try to read every codex that comes out cover to cover.  I dont really care if they change the game play (though that would rock) but atleast update the fluff.  Process the universe into a living breathing moving entity.....not just a sleeping god in a coma!

Courage Honor Wisdom.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





San Francisco

Two things:

1) 40k has a very deep back story. Hell, Necromunda has a very deep back story, and that game takes place entirely in a section of a city of an Imperial world. 40k is so big that it's very easy to tell many interesting stories without ever running out of material. So there's no urgent need to advance the fluff.

2) Every time you advance the fluff, you're going to make some people very angry. I'm thinking specifically of an old Dakka poster (Drew Riggio?) who had a large Iron Hands army, back when there was little fluff about them, and the fluff that existed portrayed them as siege specialists. Then one day he woke up to discover the Iron Hands weren't siege specialists at all: they were bionically enhanced nut jobs with crappy rules, unorthodox squad makeup, and an allegiance to Necron traitors. I doubt he was a happy camper.
   
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Well, as the saying goes, you?ve got to break a few eggs to make an omelet?

OK, I hate that saying too...

And does anyone rememeber the infamous "Blood Angels going over to Chaos" rumor a while back?

Still, for all the problems and heartache it *might* cause, I'd like to see the storyline advanced too.

(Just don't let whomever is writing the Horus Heresy Artbooks/CCG background handle it...)

   
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Regular Dakkanaut




I, too, love the 40k fluff, but don't think it needs to be advanced. Why? Because the strength of the 40k world is not in its greater scheme or overall picture, but in the infinite variety of smaller pictures it allows to be constructed.

Every battle is different -- I could be Marines with my back against the wall, the last tattered but proud survivors of a valiant attempt to stop an Ork Waagh in its tracks. I could be Marines shining, triumphant, crusading deep into the filthy holds of chaos with light and goodness. I could be Eldar desperate to recover a powerful artifact from ignorant and dangerous humans, or defending my last exodite hope, or trying to avenge the wrongs of my Dark kin....

to do all this, do I NEED to know why the Emperor is imprisoned? If Russ will return? Whether or not the Galaxy will burn now or later? Not really...

-Adso
   
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The Great State of Texas

Posted By yakface on 12/04/2006 5:50 PM

I thoroughly disagree with the overall sentiment.

As fun as a change in the 40k universe might be in the short-term, in the long run the galaxy as a whole is a backdrop for an infinite amount of smaller stories set within it.

Changing something major in the fluff means changes would need to be made to many, if not all armies.


It's like the on-again off-again relationship on the TV show 'The Office'. You may think you want them to hook up, but once that happens the plot is never truly interesting again.

Sure the Primarchs come back but then what? Ultimately you really want to see some resolution which would mean something like the Tyranid fleets are wpied out or the Imperium crumbles or Chaos is defeated.

All of those premises sound really interesting until you realize they lead to a dead end eventually, and worse, a dead end that would require a major change (if not removal) of an existing army type.

The fact will always remain that a story continually perched upon the egde of a precipice is more interesting than a storyline that has been resolved.


I like the 40k universe exactly where it is. The only thing I would really like to happen would be for the Imperium to make some gains in some area. We only ever hear about worlds being destroyed, lost, etc to the enemy. I would love to hear about a successful crusade that took something major back from somebody. Or Eldar that successfully carve out a new empire.

Basically I'd like a small reversal of the continual themes.


Respectfully, I’d have to disagree with you Yakface.  The plotline can be moved along slightly without impacting the existing armies. In fact it would provide the option of new armies.

 

Timeline: 25 years after the start of EOT.

 

*Adbaddon and the Chaos legions were stopped cold at the Cadian gate.  Turning everything to the cause, the Imperium  hold Chaos at the gate, until Abaddon was forced to gamble everything with a quick thrust by his core legions and fleets to attempt to invade earth and kill the Emperor/destroy the astral beacon effectively cutting the region from the rest of human space (campaign here).  It fails.

 

*However the effort has shattered the Imperium. Whole sectors are now in revolt and have broken.  Several marine chapters have set up their own empires, and new empires have been formed form break away sections.  While Abaddon was busy at EOT,  the Alpha legion has sown dissent well. Chaos has been busy elsewhere, retaking the Sabbat worlds and other large regions.  Other systems have openly allied with Tau and other races, or formed free standing alliances. 

 

*It is a time of reconquest and growth.  There are rival sectors, all calling themselves the Imperium, fighting to reclaim what was once theirs.  New human empires fight for their own expansion or against the Imperium.  Other systems fight for survival, fight for freedom. Freed from the yoke of oppression, some systems begin to dvance technologically and culturally again.  

 

You now have at least two campaign books, and two codices (Codex mercs or such, Codex human empires, Codex Demiurg).  Also by moving it along just a nudge you can introduce new alien races; new CTan (and CTan infighting); new Nid splinter fleets.



-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Soviet Kanukistan

Jfrazell:  I totally agree.  I personally feel that each global campaign should drastically change the warhammer / warhammer 40k world:

Example: 

Global Campaign 40k - Eye of Terror
Result - Minor Victory - Chaos

Global results:  Chaos is repulsed and exhausted.  Imperium is exhausted.

Resulting White Dwarf Sublists published perodically for a year (on the lead up to a WH Fantasy Campaign the following year,) and valid up until the end of the next 40k global campaign.

Tau Empire:  Human Colonial list
Eldar:  Crone World Expedition
Tyranids:  Some Hive Fleet
Orks:  Freebooterz
Spacemarines:  Crusade Army
Spacemarines:  Rebuilding Chapter (reduced choices with free vet skills or something)
Imperial Rebelion Pacification Force (IG/WH/DH)
Chaos:  Remnant Force (elements of the dark crusade now cut off from the eye of terror)

Etc. etc. etc.

IMO it would go a long way towards sustaining interest in the hobby.

   
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Minneapolis, MN

I hear what you are saying about the stagnancy, it makes sense for each new codex or supplement to advance the storyline a little further, perhaps only in a specific area.  EOT was a cool campaign because there really was something in the balance.  The Games Developers were coordinating it, but the outcome was in the hands of the players and then was codified into fluff (Check out the awesome EOT book by Andy Hoare).  I was mostly disapointed with Medusa V because there wasn't anything that important to come from it.  Its been a few months now and its like it never happened.

Obviously, the developers didn't want the whole universe to be thrown topsy turvy like it was by EOT, so they created a safe little playground where all of the armies could fight and then "poof" its gone without any consequences.

I agree that you don't want to destoy the Imperium, but the outcome of a global campaign should have some enduring effect on the backstory.  No one really got anything big from Medusa V.  The nids didn't get the Deathleaper, Chaos was stopped, Dark Eldar stayed the same, Eldar saved their warp tunnel, Necrons got shut down, Tau realized that Chaos was scary (sissies), Imperial Guard saved a bunch of civilians - whoop di-do!, and the Marines held onto their honor.

As its been said previously, it would be cool if the result of this was some sort of victorious Imperial crusade into Tau territory or have the next global campaign concern the battle between the Orks and 'Nids as it spills over onto neighbouring Imperial systems.  That would be cool.

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The Great State of Texas

Ayah samwise you could have these campaigns as having small impacts which wouldn't impact the total game. As you say a campaign that potentially pushes back a Tau flank or such, reflected in fluff later but also used to include new minis or list categories.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Regular Dakkanaut




All the lists you all are so interested in are quite possible, and have even been mentioned, within the current 40k universe.

The Ultramarines rule a small empire already. Other Chapters have probably taken their model -- after all, who would try to stop them?

There are plenty of mercenaries in the 40k universe, or such is the impression I get from the new Kroot, Vespid, Demiurg, etc stuff that's been slowly leaking in.

There are already many, many independent human star kingdoms -- most of Macharius' crusades (which only ended a few hundred years ago) were against these. Imperial Governors are already semi independent (like feudal lords...) and revolt all the time -- in fact, that's why the PDF are so seperate from the Imperial Guard, and one of the prime reasons Assasins exist.

Marines have gone rogue before -- witness the whole fluff behind the Badab war, which was less than 150 years ago, current fluff, or Cypher. It's not a stretch to play current marines who "got away" or took that as their inspiration.

The universe doesn't need earthshaking change -- it would just be better off with lots of fine details.

-Adso
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Still trying to operate tape cassettes

I like the idea of a non Imperial campaign, but one in which everyone can take part.

Have to diagree with you, Adso. They can't look into the fluff in too much detail, otherwise it'll lead to them having to write about even more sensational but insignificant events, which will in turn create the idea that fluff is canon, limiting what we can have our characters, etc. do in the 40k universe.

Also, allowing more Marines to go rogue will change the feel of the fluff entirely. Marines are either Imperial or Chaos, and (apart from in one article and one piece of fluff) it's not spoken about. It's ok for a player to say they have rogue Marines, but if GW were to promote it too much it'd have to be much more definite on what rogues are like, again limiting what you could write into your own backstory.

I Ate Your Bees 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





It seems like a lot of you agree with me and bring some good points as to why.  I accept the fact that not everyone sees things the same way but what I dont understand is this resistance to change.  Im not sure if you guys that dont want to see the story continued are just affraid of it destroying the game we love, or if your just so comfortable with the way things are now that to move it on would bother you.

In any case there are a lot of good arguments in this thread to both sides, but the agruments against change that say the story would come to an end if you moved it on are the only ones I just have to completely disagree with.  I said it once already but it bears repeating, its Sci Fi!!!! you can do anything with it and as long as you have a good imagination it never has to stop.

I am a Grey Knight player and I love the fluff of the game (especially marines vs. chaos marines stuff).  But im not even asking for a change in favor of marines.  Im just asking for ANY change.  Someone mentioned that nothing is happening with the Tyranids or the Orks either.  What is going on with the Tau and the Necrons.....are the Necrons actually working toward any goal? and if so are they getting any closer or further away?  Have the Tau just set up a bourderline for there "greater good" campaign and stopped advancing?

I mean there just has to be something significant break in this amazing story that we have.  Im so tired of reading book after book where they build you up to see something spectacular occur only to find out that it was some stupid inquisitor that was inticed by chaos and the whole book was a ruse, story.  I want to see a book about the 41st mellinium that shatters that thought process and throws the impreium, the EOT, the nids, the Tau, the Eldar and ALL the armies into something that they have not seen in 10,000 years!

Ahhh well I can plee for this change forever but im just really loosing any hope that it will ever happen *shrug*

Courage Honor Wisdom.
 
   
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Actually, you're right: a real shake up would be a LOT of fun, from a story perspective.  I would love to hear and ee something truly apocalyptic and such.

But it's a game about stories, not a story that lets you play games.  Ultimately, the current 40k universe is good for a game universe because it ISN'T decisive, just tumultuous.


Perhaps they could publish several different "Era Books" -- you know, one for the Apostasy Era, one for the Badab War era, one for whatever this Great Collapse this thread seems in favor of.

-Adso
   
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Still trying to operate tape cassettes

That would be a good idea: campaign books or packs, that aren't directly related to any of GW's worlwide or store campaigns. They made some for 4th edition Fantasy, and one for 2nd edition 40k.
Having read about the Age of Apostasy in the Witchunters Codex, it seems that the pre- and post-36th millenium Imperium are quite different. There was no Ordo Hereticus and no SoB's, and I presume the relationship between the SM's and the Imperium would be different, there being less foundings, and so more of the Chapter's in existence would still have ties to their Primogeniotr chapters. A pack which introduced the 'old' Imperium, with a different perspective to the current one would be good, plus it would stay away from anything too sweeping, such as the HH, which GW don't seem to really want to touch too much.
The Badab war would be cool, too, particularly as a campaign pack, with special 'Badab only' special rules etc. Maybe even a skirmish campaign, or a board game. May have just given myself an idea for a Christmas project.

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Russ WILL come back.

Yes to stagnent, bring back the primarchs.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
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Nuremberg

Hmmm.
Not too sure on this one.
Back in the day, the 13th Crusade was supposed to be the big chaos threat, the potential apocolypse, doom and gloom, Rhana Dhandra, Da Big Fight.
Now it was a stalemate war. Lame.
With medusa, even though the imperials won a resounding victory, they still had a depressing ending with millions dying. Same for Eldar, they lost the Autrach person. Necrons suffered no a whit for their loss, Dark Eldar remained the same. Orks were the only ones who could have a had a big shake up (Since GW are too lazt to create a mini for Nazdreg anyway (the lazy god for nothing bollixes that they are), so they could have killed him) but Orks got quite a cheerful ending.
Same for chaos, even though they didn't do well, the Gods were happy.
Bad guys always win and it always sucks to be a good guy, that's what's stagnant about the fluff.
I reckon they should either really implement changes or not have player controlled games.
The biggest source of stagnation for me is the change in point of veiw. Everything being in imerial point of veiw bores the pants off of me. I can only read "Vile Xenos" and "For the Emperor!" so many times before I want to shoot Graham MacNiell, Andy Hoare and Pete Haines in the face.

   
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Between a rock and a hard place

I agree that the universe is stagnant as a whole, but there are so many smaller stories going on that make it interesting.

Don't bring the Primarchs back. Especially Russ, that guy did more harm than good for the Imperium.

Bring back the Sensei!I want conspiracy!

"The Imperium looks at it this way. Your armor can either protect you from an anti-tank rocket, or a garden hose. But not both".
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Posted By Da Boss on 01/29/2007 9:20 AM
 I can only read "Vile Xenos" and "For the Emperor!" so many times before I want to shoot Graham MacNiell, Andy Hoare and Pete Haines in the face.



With a potato gun.

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I would like to point out some interesting shake ups in the 40k continuity in the past 20 years, as everyone seems to think its stagnant.

- 2nd Edition tyranid codex (Tyranids finally explained! A new menace to the galaxy!) Sure they had been around before, but now they had structure, and they were coming! The fate of the galaxy looked dire.

-2nd Edition Sisters of Battle Codex (More insight into the inner workings of the Imperium, and a whole new force of humanity that had only been hinted at before.)

-NECRONS - rise of the ancient enemies of the old ones? If that doesn't shake you up, I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't even until the 3rd ed Necron Codex that we finally see what they are all about.

-3rd War for Armageddon - Orks everywhere!

-TAU! - A brand new race enters the fray! What does the future have in store for them!

-EYE OF TERROR- 13th Black Crusade. Showed how vulnerable the Imperium can truly be

-Medusa V- Meh, but still, it's there.

So actually, alot has happened since the game started, and I think your beef is less that the universe is stagnant, and more that it doesn't change the way you want.

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Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
I would like to point out some interesting shake ups in the 40k continuity in the past 20 years, as everyone seems to think its stagnant.

- 2nd Edition tyranid codex (Tyranids finally explained! A new menace to the galaxy!) Sure they had been around before, but now they had structure, and they were coming! The fate of the galaxy looked dire.

-2nd Edition Sisters of Battle Codex (More insight into the inner workings of the Imperium, and a whole new force of humanity that had only been hinted at before.)

-NECRONS - rise of the ancient enemies of the old ones? If that doesn't shake you up, I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't even until the 3rd ed Necron Codex that we finally see what they are all about.

-3rd War for Armageddon - Orks everywhere!

-TAU! - A brand new race enters the fray! What does the future have in store for them!

-EYE OF TERROR- 13th Black Crusade. Showed how vulnerable the Imperium can truly be

-Medusa V- Meh, but still, it's there.

So actually, alot has happened since the game started, and I think your beef is less that the universe is stagnant, and more that it doesn't change the way you want.
All of the things you have mentioned were great ADDITIONS to the game but they did not CHANGE anything.  How many things actually came from any of those books besides what is in those books.  Lets see....WEll when the Nids came out eventually in 4th ed. the Ultramarines got some special Tyranic war vets....but did that "change" anything else about the game or story other than introducing a new army or one new unit?  Did the nids actually "do" anything? 

The biggest thing that the Necron codex did was enforce the feeling that the primarchs need to come back!  I mean The Deceiver and Nightbringer!!! come on! those guys are nearly the same if not more powerful than people envision the primarchs being and they are the only army with anything that powerful.

Tau.....great new ideas but no "changes"

EOT was the biggest joke of all....I mean how many times are they going to do a huge campaign where they say "What you all do will change the face of the imperium" and then call it a tie....*sigh*

So in essence you are right...some great new ideas that had good new information.  But made no significant "change" to the game at all.

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Vult has already said this, but just to add some more detail:

 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
I would like to point out some interesting shake ups in the 40k continuity in the past 20 years, as everyone seems to think its stagnant.

- 2nd Edition tyranid codex (Tyranids finally explained! A new menace to the galaxy!) Sure they had been around before, but now they had structure, and they were coming! The fate of the galaxy looked dire. 

The fate of the galaxy has always looked dire, no matter which way you want to look at it. I wouldn't want to live there and then. But big whoop, the Tyranids are here, invading the galaxy in three (or more) places from another entire galaxy they've destroyed. Surely they'll throw the Imperium (and everything else) into chaos, right?

Nope. Two editions (and ten years) later, the Hive Fleets still can't make in-roads into our galaxy. Even the Tau can drive them back. 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-2nd Edition Sisters of Battle Codex (More insight into the inner workings of the Imperium, and a whole new force of humanity that had only been hinted at before.)

A way to sell new models, basically. And another army appears that proves unpopular (it's a great army with some great models but it's not common) and does little or nothing to change the setting. Sisters of Battle haven't turned the tide against Chaos, have they? 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-NECRONS - rise of the ancient enemies of the old ones? If that doesn't shake you up, I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't even until the 3rd ed Necron Codex that we finally see what they are all about.

Yep, the Necrons exist on practically every planet in the galaxy so they could just rise up and wipe every other race out. But they don't. They wake up one planet at a time and either sit around doing little or let the Imperium wipe them out. What difference have the Necron made in anyway? None. The Imperium's still there, minus one or two planets. The same can be said for every other race, so it all balances out. Nothing changes. 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-3rd War for Armageddon - Orks everywhere!

Nope, Orks on Armageddon. One planet. Which the Imperium hangs on to. How does that remotely change a single damn thing? 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-TAU! - A brand new race enters the fray! What does the future have in store for them!

Much the same. Their little empire might expand and contract but it will never be a threat to the Imperium. Because that would change things and change is bad, isn't it, GW?

Fluff-wise, at the rate the Tau develop, they should be ruling the universe in a century or two (except for lack of numbers). So with the Tau GW are even ignoring the fluff to keep everything constant.

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-EYE OF TERROR- 13th Black Crusade. Showed how vulnerable the Imperium can truly be

What are you talking about? The EoT campaign was a win for Chaos (not a tie as most people keep saying, although it was a small win) and yet nothing happens. Oh we get some crappy fluff about Cadia being battered but not broken but that's it. The Imperium isn't vulnerable at all. Because GW doesn't want it to be.

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
-Medusa V- Meh, but still, it's there.

Again, one planet that is going to explode no matter what anyone does. It makes no difference. 

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 8:29 AM
So actually, alot has happened since the game started, and I think your beef is less that the universe is stagnant, and more that it doesn't change the way you want.

Yes, a lot has happend. But not a lot has changed.


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Stu-Rat, I agree with you except for one point.


The fate of the galaxy has always looked dire, no matter which way you want to look at it. I wouldn't want to live there and then. But big whoop, the Tyranids are here, invading the galaxy in three (or more) places from another entire galaxy they've destroyed. Surely they'll throw the Imperium (and everything else) into chaos, right?

Nope. Two editions (and ten years) later, the Hive Fleets still can't make in-roads into our galaxy. Even the Tau can drive them back.


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