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Well I played my first game of Confrontation yesterday and although it was kind of fun, it seems a bit simplistic and two dimentional.

Wondering if anyone here has played both and how you would compare them.

I haven't played Hordes, but I've played Warmachine. I've only played a handful of games of Confrontation.

Of the two from what I've seen so far, WM is the superior gameplay - purely because with Confrontation the bit where you decide to allocate dice to attack and defence seems to favour the "worse " model in the situation.

However, Confrontation minis look so much more beautiful!

Confrontation models, WM rules at SST prices. Now *that* would be a great fantasy wargame!

From what I've heard many people find Confrontation too complex for its own good. I haven't played warmachine or hordes, so that kinda scares me about those two!

I prefer Hordes because PP minis are not lead based. That is a good enough reason for me to stay away from Rackham.

engine

I never understood the lead argument, one store even said that's why they refused to carry them (though the "Boycott France" attitude also there hinted at the real reason). It's not like you are going to be eating them or grinding them up and inhaling the dust. Even if you have kids, I can think of countless other modeling & household items just as dangerous.

I think it's because of the amount of handling of the raw metal that occurs. Hot hands + soft lead = the possibility for bad news.

Also, "grinding them up and inhaling the dust" probably occurs more often that you'd think. My workspace is covered in metal shavings from both knife work and Dremmel work. And, miniatures never come out of the packaging clean. They always have some sort of residue on them.


Mostly its probably simple over-cautiousness. Lead is a four-letter-word these days.

I just kind of found it like going up and bonking each other on the head, it is more like playing 'punch for punch' than playing a strategy game.

Obviously I am exaggerating but you could have a more interesting game of 40k of WHFB if you and a friend said "Hey, lets have a 500pt special character battle" or something like that. (I have never done this but it is beginning to sound interesting... new post coming)

I have played both. Hordes & Warmachine plays extremely well, its fast paced and brutal. The game is never over until someone wins. Unlike other games were after a couple of turns its possible to see who is going to win. Its always possible to win the game regardless of how badly your being mauled. Neither game rewards conservative play.

Confrontation is dull. I've played Confrontation and Ragnarok and neither game flows very well. I've had several turns go by without anything interesting happening. You almost want to jump up and shout when you finally kill something. Lots of really nice models, but I won't play this again unless the have a complete rewrite of the rules.

Posted By blue loki on 12/08/2006 11:17 AM
I think it's because of the amount of handling of the raw metal that occurs. Hot hands + soft lead = the possibility for bad news.

Lead has to be ingested or inhaled to do it's evil work,  so as long as you follow basic safety procedures, most of which one should already be doing while modeling, it isn't going to do you a lick of harm. Beyond the painfully obvious (like not eating it), those safety procedures are the same as when working resin (the dust of which is toxic): Wear safety glasses/goggles, use a rated filter mask, and always, always clean up afterwards (that includes yourself).

If one wants to be ultra careful, only use a knife to scrape off any flash/imperfections as it won't create the minimal dust associated with sanding or using files. You'll still need to clean the work area and wash up afterwards.

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 12/08/2006 1:17 PM
...most of which one should already be doing while modeling, it isn't going to do you a lick of harm...

 

Exactly correct.

But how many times have you seen a discussion about accidentally drinking paint water or stabbing your thumb while removing flash. I know I hear about it all the time.

In the end, people are careless. Many people routinely don't follow at least a couple safety precautions, and I'd wager that extremely few actually follow all of them all of the time. Removal of a possible health danger when their are other alternatives is simply smart business, financially and legally.

 

I'm with Loki. After I dremel, sand, cut up and convert minis, I am covered in chips and dust. This dust lingers on the floor, on the table, on my clothes, and on my hands. I could take steps to contain it, but I guess I feel that I shouldn't have to take that much precaution with figures that look a heck of a lot like toys. Yes, I have other dangerous things in my house, but Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

You can say "don't eat it" all day. I know I would have said the same about leaded house paint, but look where that ended up. Rakcham minis are one of the only ways to get a significant amount of lead in to your house these days. They don't just have a small percentage of lead. They are over 50% lead (the ones I checked, anyway).

Gw switched to tin based. Reaper switched to tin based. PP started with tin. It can be done, but it does increase cost.

engine

I bought a whole Confrontation army three years ago and I still do not understand the rules. I even bought the third edition book and that didn't help either. The minis are some of the best in the business though.

I would understand the 'Hot hands + soft lead = the possibility for bad news.' as referring to lead detail being easy to crush from being knocked over/off the table.

Second, if you are worried about lead poisoning through puncture wounds, the fact that you bleed out makes it hard for a puncture to be an introduction point.

Also, get rid of your cell phone, microwave, and sell your house since there are power lines and cell phone towers within twenty miles...

If this stresses you out, snort lines of resin dust to calm yourself.

I heat the arms off my Rackham minis to sip the molten stuff through
a straw. Mmm...what were we talking about?

Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

Sigged...

I've never found the rules of Confrontation difficult to grasp, although there are some issues of language in the translation. Strategy arises in the ordering of your cards, refusals, and in building ability combinations. Don't try playing on a large table or attempting outflanking manouvres in Confrontation - its a close up skirmish blood-bath.

My first few games of Confrontation really were line up and kill each other efforts. It takes a while to figure out how to use all the abilities models have properly.

I played one game of Warmachine and thought it was terrible, kind of like a card and dice game with minis, but apparently i am in a minority.

THEY MAKE THEM OUT OF LEAD?

Minis be damned.

I'm so glad I read this thread. Here I was, thinking it was time te do prepainted Confrontation. Now I know it'll kill my people.

For once, I don't need to run the P&L projection.

So what you're saying is, don't buy overstock on Rackham minis. As soon as you
buy them you spray them...

Does that keep it safe, btw?

Posted By malfred on 12/09/2006 7:08 PM
So what you're saying is, don't buy overstock on Rackham minis. As soon as you
buy them you spray them...

Does that keep it safe, btw?

Only if you use the asbestos spray with the radon propellant.

Man, whatever happened to radon? Radon detectors made AWESOME Christmas presents.

So long as you aren't eating your Rackham figs or grinding them to a fine dust and sniffing them, they're plenty safe. Just keep them out from rugrats reach, which one should be doing regardless of lead content anyways.

Posted By BaconSlayer on 12/09/2006 7:51 PM

Posted By malfred on 12/09/2006 7:08 PM
So what you're saying is, don't buy overstock on Rackham minis. As soon as you
buy them you spray them...

Does that keep it safe, btw?

Only if you use the asbestos spray with the radon propellant.

Man, whatever happened to radon? Radon detectors made AWESOME Christmas presents.

Radon moved to Pennsylvania, where it's now serving on the school board in the 8th district, along with running a little bar on the Delaware in Yardley that specializes in Belgian beer, Keno and Japanese Midget Fire Wrestling. Their Jalapeno sweet potato soup is also excellent.



Oh, and he brings cancer into the homes of the unbeliever.

?I have not even tried to look at any others systems apart from GW as nobody here in the UK really plays them. BUT the Rackham mini are the best in the hobby so I have loads,

as for the lead thing GW mini's were all lead at one time and to be honest I prefered the lead ones as they were easier to cut and convert