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Made in us
Been Around the Block




I stumbled upon Warhammer 40k in my internet surfing recently, and think the game is amazing. Players are so into it, it's survived 23 years and is still going strong, not to mention the makers of the game seem to accually care about it customers.

So I want to get into Warhammer 40k, I've looked into the different armies and am down to 2 choices; Space Wolves, and Tyranids.

I like both of the models, and both of the backstories  but just can't decide...

So thats my first problem, picking an army. My other is price, how much would a decent Tyranid or Space Wolves army cost? Cause I noticed how expensive these can be.

Also there is painting, how much of a learning curve is involved, I've never painted and have no clue how difficult of easy it can be.

So those are my 3 main questions: Which race? How expensive? and how hard is the painting?

And of course, if anyone has anything to add, please do. Thank you.
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




I suggest first going to a local hobby center or even a Games Workshop. Games workshops specifically have trial games in which you can play as space marines (what Space Wolves derive from) and Tyranids. This will give you an idea of the game, to see if you like it. Also, ask questions to all the people who are there playing.

If you go to a hobby center that is non Games Workshop, I would say buy the Battle For Maccrage, as it is the starter game that includes Space Marines and Tyranids, the rules book, and some scenery/dice/templates. Then you can play with a neighbor/firned and learn the rules.

Pick the army you thought was more fun to play in the demo game. There are so many variants, what I like may not be what you like.

Price depends on where you buy and how big you go. I think its reasonable to say if you buy everything to expect spending upwards of $400 for models + supplies. You can spend more or less depending on what you end up wanting to do with the army and how big you want it.
I would start of small, buy the starter set, read the rules, play a few games, then get the codexes. Learn those, ask questions on a site like Dakka, then make your next purchase. So you dont buy stuff you dont need.

Painting can be very hard for the artisitcally inclined. But research and questions and trial and error can help improove your skills. Games Workshop offers painting clinics. Ultimately, only practice will improove you.
Painting can also be done quickly and still look good for table games.

Welcome to the hobby.
   
Made in us
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Barpharanges






Limbo

"...not to mention the makers of the game seem to accually care about it customers... "

Heh...I suspect lots of people might disagree with this statement.  But I digress.

 

Back on topic:

I agree with what Vero said.  See/participate in some trial games first to get an idea of how the game itself works out, and how each army works out.  If you're deciding between Space Wolves or Tyranids, the Battle For Macragge box would definitely be the thing for you to first get to get a chance to try out both armies. 

Pricing is difficult to gauge since it really depends on what kind of stuff you want to get for your army, but Vero is probably pretty accurate with his estimate of $400 for a regular sized army (I'm thinking like 1500 points...though nowadays people - in the US at least - seem to be playing at higher points; 1750-1850). 

As for painting, the difficulty depends on the quality with which you'll be happy to have your models.  It's not too hard to get a moderately presentable model out.  Just keeping to simple paint schemes and low color variation (3 colors is what most GW stores consider minimum as "painted" to play at their stores) can get you nice and clean models (a fairly steady hand helps out too).  If you want GW catalog standard models, that'll probably take more time and practice.  Your mileage may vary with your artistic aptitude.  Definitely take advantage of in-store tutorials.

As for giving more direct advice on army selection, consider these factors when going through some trial games: do you prefer being able to shoot your opponents from afar (although both Space Wolves and Tyranids tend to lean more heavily toward close combat, if I recall correctly)?  Do you like having masses of weaker units or would you prefer fewer but more survivable units?  Simple preferences of aesthetics might be enough to make a decision (I know I for one started playing Tyranids a while back because I thought the models looked awesome).  Again, like Vero said, there're many permutations of armies that can be built, so find a playing style that you like and go with it. 

Most importantly, I would suggest convincing some friends to join in the hobby with you.  While it's fun to go play pick-up games at a local store, I've always found it more fun to just get together at a friend's basement and spend an afternoon chilling out and knocking out a couple of games.  Also, painting with friends can make it less of a tedious process at times. 

Welcome to the hobby!


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Madness and genius are separated by degrees of success.

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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Wow $400... wont be able to make my own armies for awhile (16 y/o with no job yet) I could have taken 200-300 but 400 is to much >.<

I'll just buy some troop packs and practice painting for now.

Also I was thinking Necron but they seem to be the most hated of the races; is this true?
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




well, like I said. Start with the start kit, called the battle for Maccrage. It runs about $75 and will get you enough to start the game and play a few battles.

From there you can slowly build the army. It's not a one shot, you spend $400 off the bat. You can slowly build the army up to different levels.
   
Made in us
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Barpharanges






Limbo

I second Vero's suggestion of getting the starter box (split it with a friend and you save money).

And I wanted to chime in that lately I've found smaller games to be quite fun as well (~500-750 points).  So you don't necessarily miss out as you're building up to a full army.


DS:80S+GM--B++I+Pwhfb/re#+D++A++/fWD-R+++T(O)DM+++

Madness and genius are separated by degrees of success.

Remember to follow the Swap Shop Rules and Guidelines! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



California

I disagree with both the prices, and the idea of getting the starter box.

Now, you have a few options. One: Get the macragge box, and spend $75 on it. You get a load of stuff you won't use. Disregard that option.

For $75, you can get yourself two SM tac squads, and some change. Now, you can easily make a 1500pt army with a budget of $250, or $300.

Buy from www.thewarstore.com, or www.chaosorc.com, or any online discounter. Search around on forums for a list you like. The only really expensive armies out there are cheesy lists. Generic lists can run quite cheap, especially for Space marines.

Good luck!

Chuck

"I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, and do not impress me" -
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Made in us
Assault Kommando






Portland, Tir Tairngire

I think the Macragge box is worth it if you want to be able learn to play on your own. It has basic terrain and templates and dice. It also contains the handy travel rulebook. One thing I would say about learning this game is to spend some time learning the rules.

Now playing & at Guardian Games or Ordo Fanaticus Club Night
 
   
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Barpharanges






Limbo

On double check, the Battle for Macragge is $45 (at regular retail price).

So it's not a bad buy in the least.

DS:80S+GM--B++I+Pwhfb/re#+D++A++/fWD-R+++T(O)DM+++

Madness and genius are separated by degrees of success.

Remember to follow the Swap Shop Rules and Guidelines! 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




Oh, I didnt even ralize the Battle for Macragge was that in expensive. Makes it even better for getting.

@chuckyhol
He likes both Space Marines and Tyranids and doesnt know which he wants to play. The Macragge starter kit let him play both sides in a quick scenario.
He also gets:
-A rule book (normally $50 in itself)
-Scenery (useful)
-Dice, including scatter (not enough, but it helps)
-Templates (instead of buying them seperate)

For a brand new player, you get a lot out of it. Shoot, I went halfs with a friend just so I could get the terrain and rule book. He wanted the nids and marines.
   
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Barpharanges






Limbo

To be fair to chucky, the rulebook in the battle for Macragge is really condensed compared to the stand-alone $50 version (which has lots more pictures, diagrams, stories, etc).  Still, it's all a person really needs to start playing.

DS:80S+GM--B++I+Pwhfb/re#+D++A++/fWD-R+++T(O)DM+++

Madness and genius are separated by degrees of success.

Remember to follow the Swap Shop Rules and Guidelines! 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Eventually you'll need to buy a codex, which are 20 bucks if I recall correctly. Do you
need Codex Space Marines and Codex Space Wolves to run Space Wolves? The shift
from 3rd to 4th edition confuses me since I don't play.

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Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Malfred- Yes, you need Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Space Wolves to play a Space Wolf Army. Plus the Codex: Space Wolves FAQ from the GW website, which discusses how to use the old (3rd edition) SW codex with the 4th ed rules and SM codex.

All- I agree that the Battle for Macragge boxed set is a fantastic value for any new player. The big rulebook is nicer, but for around the same price or cheaper ($45-50, depending on the store and tax, though you could get 20% or 30% off using an online discounter), you get the mini rulebook (including all the core rules), the dice, templates, terrain, and some figs. It's really a great deal. The BFM scenario book inside is also a great tool for learning the system if you're not being taught by someone who already knows how to play.

Sanon- Start out with that boxed set. If the Wolves are really calling to you, go ahead and also buy one squad box, a nice sharp craft knife, and a bottle of super glue. Put the figs together, try out the scenarios in the boxed set with a friend. If don't like it or have trouble, ask us questions and we'll try to help. If you enjoy it, come back and post about that, and which army you're leaning towards.

We'll help you build a small force (500pts or so) cheap, and you can work your way up from there.  You can definitely get enough guys for some fun games for less than $200, especially if you can have your parents place orders for you from online discounters.   If they have any concerns, we can recommend a few very reputable companies.


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







If you see an online discounter called New Wave, stop.

There have been many complaints about them netwide.

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Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

Why wold you want to play with bugs in space. Go with the space wolves, you cant beat Viking in space.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




You can with Pirates in space.

Play Dark Eldar.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

If you are lame.

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in ie
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





Posted By Sanon on 12/08/2006 5:15 PM
Also I was thinking Necron but they seem to be the most hated of the races; is this true?


No they aren't. If anything it's Space Marines that are 'disliked' the most. As in, they are very popular, so 50% of people play them. That mean almost half of your games with be against a Marine EQuivalent (MEQ). Most people find this repetition tiring.

Unfortunately for Necrons, with their T4 and 3+ save they are considered MEQ and suffer some of the ire of those who dislike facing Marines the whole time.

So I would suggest playing Tyranids. There aren't as many players so people might prefer playing you as you are different to everyone else.

ps. I play Necrons and they can be alot of fun, though I find some opponents can find it frustrating when all my guys get back up.


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Church: So it is a sword, It just happens to function like a key in very specific situations.
Caboose: Or it's a key all the time, and when you stick it in people, it unlocks their death.  
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




Posted By Vero on 12/12/2006 10:08 AM
You can with Pirates in space.

Play Dark Eldar.



Fine, change it to which hunters.

Those goth chicks are kinky in the sack, and probably use the servitor arms on themselves when no inquisitor is looking.

Wow, that's bad.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



California

Awkward.

"I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, and do not impress me" -
IG fan 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Posted By Sanon on 12/08/2006 12:03 PM
I stumbled upon Warhammer 40k in my internet surfing recently, and think the game is amazing. Players are so into it, it's survived 23 years and is still going strong, not to mention the makers of the game seem to accually care about it customers.

So I want to get into Warhammer 40k, I've looked into the different armies and am down to 2 choices; Space Wolves, and Tyranids.

I like both of the models, and both of the backstories  but just can't decide...

So thats my first problem, picking an army. My other is price, how much would a decent Tyranid or Space Wolves army cost? Cause I noticed how expensive these can be.

Also there is painting, how much of a learning curve is involved, I've never painted and have no clue how difficult of easy it can be.

So those are my 3 main questions: Which race? How expensive? and how hard is the painting?

And of course, if anyone has anything to add, please do. Thank you.


- Depending on your type of style of play, you will have to decide your first question on your own. As for the examples given, I would recommend that you borrow a few figures from a friend, or go to the shop and play a simple game of five or ten figs of each type of army that you are considering, and make an informed opinion on your own merit.

- If you are going to be in the game for a bit, you need to know that the price is alot better on E bay, and other gamers in this forum, as well as around your own area, Other gamers will have a few that you could get for a small price, as opposed to buying scores of them and then you find out that you really didn't like them after all. Plan your purchase.

- Start small, learn the basics, and keep a copy of the rule sheet and your armies chart handy for your first couple of games and play some simple games. As a rule, I'll start a new army with one box of figs. play a few turns and add to them. One hq, and a box of guys will easily be 40.00 to 45.00 from the local game store, and as well, the GW store will sometimes try to milk you into trying to buy the biggest box and everything at the same time. I'm not going to discuss that aspect, but as a new player, it is easy to get overwhelmed and be taken in, buy 75.00 worth of stuff, and then find that you don't like it.

- Go to your local game shop and play a few practice games with a friend if you can. Then, buy an initial investment of 50.00 on brushes, paint, clippers, and a modeling knife,can of primer, a box of minis, glue and the colors that you chose to paint them with. You can use the color schemes from the book, your own, none, all the while, you play a game or two with your initial investment, while putting them together, painting them, and taking your time with the basics or learning the rules, building your army, and getting a few more players to interact with and get your game on.

- Read over your codex, and stick by your army. Just because you don't win, don't worry about that. Its about learning, ( and relearning) the game. The rules are on the surface simple, and your opponents will be ... interesting in some of the interpritations of some of thier armies rules. Of course, after a while you will be too, and thats ok, because your learning about your army and your going to learn more in discussions with other players as well.

-If you find that you don't like your choice, keep it. Your first army is special, later you will be fondly remembering your initial enjoyment and will as well be adding minis to the ever growing range. Be happy with your small purchases, and save up and plan out the large ones. You will find that your army is going to start taking on a life of its own, and you will even start having personal stories for different units and adding your stories, fluff, etc. to the enjoyment of your game. Everyone always remembers how " Nigel" was the lone survivor and fought off a whole flank on his own, only to be cut down by the tank that ran up on and tank shocked him, or  his charge killed it..

just a few tips, good luck to you.




At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

Go with marines they are the best to begin with, and the best of the marine have to be the space wolves of blood angels (although Red is hard to paint unlike grey)

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Ok, I got the battle box, and besides a Termagaunt missing a toe, and my captain loosing his sword arm they all came out ok (need modeling clippers) I've started painting one of my marines, turning out pretty badly so far, I think I put the undercoat on to thick, forgot about the joints when painting the body, the eyes are all buggy, and the belt gold got on his arms and I couldnt get it all off... but I am compelled to get better, weird feeling, I have heard the call of war!

Also I went to a games workshop today, they have games on wednesday which is terrible for me as they are 70 miles away and I have yet to get a license. So I went to a hobby shop that is much closer as well, they have all the stuff, but are mainly medievil and have no set warhammer 40k days. I'm new here so have few friends, and can't see myself getting them on it since they are either to poor to afford any, give themselves completly to chess (it's real real big here), or don' t give a damn. So I can currently build but not play...

Oh well, I'm perfectly content making an army and saving it for college and life afterwards (graduation in 1 and a half years)
I got a chance to have a look at the codex and look more indepth at the races. Elder and Dark Elder I just don't like, after getting a closer look at Tyranids I decided I don't want them beacuse there look, Chaos marines I just despise, Necrons seem to clich necromancer army, and the Imperials are cool and all, but I want something more 40,000th century

So I'm clashed with
Space Wolves- My favorite animal is wolves and I love norse mythology, they just seem plain badass but also like they would be horribly overused.

LEMAN RUSS!!!

black templar- I read about them in there codex, the champion oaths and the general knight feel to them is great, and swords rock! But do they feel pain from the whole no psychic thing or is that negligable?

And the Tau Empire- I love there suits, vehicles, heroes, guns and story. Only thing that concerns me is there difficulty of use, and the fact that I don't like the kroot that much.

I'll proubly look more into these 3 to choose, but what would you guys suggest?

And thanks for all the help so far guys, you've been awsome!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Space Wolves used to be more common, but aren?t seen quite as often the last couple of years. In 3rd edition, marine assault armies which rushed at the enemy riding in several Rhino transports were very powerful, and Space Wolves were one of the best armies for it. In 4th edition, GW made transports more fragile and less reliable, so many players who were not really dedicated to the wolves, and who had bought a whole bunch of Rhinos were disappointed, has to redo their armies, or made new ones. Right now most of the Space Wolf players I see are guys that are really into the army (the looks and the fluff) as opposed to being OMG THE MOST POWERFUL THING EVAR!!!11!

Black Templars are similar. They?re a nice-looking army, pretty easy to paint, and in 3rd edition were a very powerful Rhino assault army with amazing special rules that didn?t cost any extra points. With the reduction in power for the Rhino, and their updated rules in the recent 4th edition codex, they are no longer an army of choice for powergamers, so most of the people playing them now are people who really like the army.

Tau were widely-seen as underpowered when they first came out in 3rd edition. The Tau Empire codex has beefed them up a little, and in 4th edition lots of people have been doing better with them in tournaments (look in the Battle Reports forum for posts by users Torgoch and Spooky in particular). You see a fair number of these armies around, both because a lot of folks really like the models, and because more powergamers are starting to see the army as a winning one.

Any of them would honestly be good choices. The most important thing is to have an army you really enjoy the look and feel of, so you?re motivated to get the stuff built and painted and can enjoy having and playing with them even while you?re learning and losing.

Be careful about breaking your models! Never twist them off by hand. If you don?t have hobby clippers, use a basic sharp craft knife or x-acto to cut the models off the sprue. The sprues are designed with a narrow point in the plastic where it meets the model so that the place where you cut is small and you can separate the pieces while leaving only a tiny rough spot to scrape clean.

Oh, in regards to the painting, there are a couple of threads Stuck to the top of the Modeling forum that you may want to check out. Lots of good advice in there.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
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