Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

caylentor wrote:
Mine was missing my Legends order, which is a worry. I've not heard back from support either.

Weirdly mine has only Relic Knights yesterday, but SDE was added today, so maybe it’s taking time to work through the list.

Now, if I ever see either is a whole other thing, hey ho.

I think this is new, a list of what plastic minis are in stock for relic knights and will be added to any order if they owe you from kickstarter

I know some folk were waiting to see what was available before using the discount coupon (as described here https://ninjadivision.com/pages/kickstarter-fulfillment-information)

AVAILABLE KICKSTARTER REWARDS
The rewards below are currently available for automatic fulfillment when you make an order through ninjadivision.com or ninjadivision.co.uk (as detailed above).

We have been able to manufacture these rewards due to the continued success of Masterclass! Thank you for your continued patience and support. We look forward to continuing to bring you exciting models for Super Dungeon and Relic Knights and complete fulfillment!


RELIC KNIGHTS REWARDS
Please note that some of the items below are not available for general sale because we want to ensure that we have the quantities required to prioritize backer reward fulfillment.

CORE RULES
Relic Knights: 2nd Edition Digest Rulebook
Relic Knights Esper Deck
Darkspace Calamity 2020 Unit Deck

BLACK DIAMOND
Black Dragons
Codebreaker v.6 [Questing Knight]
CSM Alex-117
Diamondback
Diamond Corps Field Medic
Leopold Magnus [Questing Knight]
M8-Blitz Auto-Tank
Sophia Drake
Suspect 7
Viper

CERCI SPEED CIRCUIT
Asger Faust
Betty and Lug
Faust’s Devils
Pacer
Princess Malya [Relic Knight]
Princess Malya [Questing Knight]

DOCTRINE
Academy Guard
Anthony [Questing Knight]
Catalogue
Hasami
Librarian
Master Wu

NOH EMPIRE
Beastmaster
Dahon
Darkspace Hasami
Har Ancient
Hatriya Warriors
Hounds of Nozuki
Kasaro To Relic Knight
Marikan To
Mamaro To

RADIANT
Candy [Relic Knight]
Cordelia Clean
Dan D. Starship
Hero of Time Candy
Rhouss Fixer

SHATTERED SWORD
Aspirant
Austrican the Ogre
Castellan
Jeanne Romee
Navarre Hauer
Paragons
Star Lancer

STAR NEBULA CORSAIRS
Blowhards
Broadside
Calico Kate [Relic Knight]
Calico Kate [Questing Knight]
Golden Vance [Questing Knight]
Iron Chef
Jenner the Seeker
Kenobo
Moffet
Rustbucket

VOID
Amelial, Herald of the Void
Harbonath the Void Reaper
Void Witch

For info, I backed Relic Knights 2.0 at the $150 2.0 Kickstarter level, and just received my initial shipment to the UK. This included the following from the pledge level, labelled as "RK-KS-bundle #1":

1x 64-page full colour digest rulebook from the starter set (smaller than A5, is not the full 112 rulebook from the KS)

1x Esper deck (which I believe is half of what you need to play the full game)

1x Leopold Magnus Questing Knight (2 models)

1x Pit Crew (2 models)

...and that's it. No unit cards, nor some of the other items we thought might be in stock for this wave.

The quality of all the new stuff is good (not the crispest resin I've seen, but much better than the old PVC), but it's just...a bit underwhelming, almost 3 years from the original projected delivery.

Still, there are several Kickstarters where the company just disappeared into the ether with my money, and I can see that an effort is being made. Ninja Division has had almost £500 from me across Relic Knights 2.0 and SDE 2.0, so it's just particularly frustrating.

 Bioptic wrote:
but it's just...a bit underwhelming, almost 3 years from the original projected delivery.

Still, there are several Kickstarters where the company just disappeared into the ether with my money, and I can see that an effort is being made. Ninja Division has had almost £500 from me across Relic Knights 2.0 and SDE 2.0, so it's just particularly frustrating.

Yeah, it's got to be annoying to be in your situation. On the other hand, as you note, they are making an effort to get stuff out to everyone. It's safe to say that in the meantime, they're going to have trouble crowdfunding stuff, so they are experiencing some hardship as a result. And assuming that they manage to dig themselves out of the fiscal hole that they've put themselves into, people will be more cautious about backing them.

On the other hand, if they do manage to get themselves out of the fiscal hole that they've put themselves into -

First, I'll be impressed. As you note, many companies just bail in this sort of situation. The fact that they appear to be making a good-faith effort to get product out (even if it is ridiculously late) is a positive sign. And second, hopefully they'll be more cautious and realistic with funding efforts going forward.

Eumerin wrote:
On the other hand, as you note, they are making an effort to get stuff out to everyone.

For some, not everyone. There has been no news or movement on their part for the Starfinder campaign nor will there ever be in all likelihood as they've passed the buck permanently. I don't follow their other campaigns though so can't comment on them.

I suspect even if they wanted to they couldn't do anything for starfinder since it was a licenced property and Paizo pulled the plug when it was clear things were going to go nowhere

I believe Archon is now handling that for paizo, and has at least some of it done and available if you order anything from them ( or maybe if you pay postage?)

[I suspect you know this, but just in case somebody reading this thread doesn't]

 Bioptic wrote:
For info, I backed Relic Knights 2.0 at the $150 2.0 Kickstarter level, and just received my initial shipment to the UK. This included the following from the pledge level, labelled as "RK-KS-bundle #1":

1x 64-page full colour digest rulebook from the starter set (smaller than A5, is not the full 112 rulebook from the KS)

1x Esper deck (which I believe is half of what you need to play the full game)

1x Leopold Magnus Questing Knight (2 models)

1x Pit Crew (2 models)

...and that's it. No unit cards, nor some of the other items we thought might be in stock for this wave.

The quality of all the new stuff is good (not the crispest resin I've seen, but much better than the old PVC), but it's just...a bit underwhelming, almost 3 years from the original projected delivery.

Still, there are several Kickstarters where the company just disappeared into the ether with my money, and I can see that an effort is being made. Ninja Division has had almost £500 from me across Relic Knights 2.0 and SDE 2.0, so it's just particularly frustrating.

I had sunk over $430 into the Relic Knights KS. I did buy a few masterclass to help them out and they shipped almost half of the addons i put in the list recently. I pretty much wrote it off a few years back. I am glad to have atleast got something. They have some great sculpts and I hope they pick up some momentum to finish their KS's and stay in business.

There's been a slow but steady churn of new SDE content getting released I've noticed. I was quite taken aback out how many new models they've released when I last checked their page.

A lot of the newer figures are just that- figures with no rules or anything else included, with the intent of putting them out for their new skirmish game mode (which has all the rules available for free if you're interested in trying it out).


I may have to grab a few new heroes before the year ends though. I'd written off Ninja Division as well, but the fact that we're seeing movement again on Relic Knights gives me some hope that we'll actually see Legends make it to the shelves in some form.

Wont catch me ever giving those lying scammers a penny again, it amazes me how people are so quick to forgive them for scamming and ripping off thousands of backers across multiple KSer's :/

 Original Timmy wrote:
Wont catch me ever giving those lying scammers a penny again, it amazes me how people are so quick to forgive them for scamming and ripping off thousands of backers across multiple KSer's :/

Living in hate is pointless, especially when the alternative is not having anything at all for the brands you still love and enjoy. I still like their miniatures' designs.

That doesn't mean I forgave them for what happened in their previous KSers, though. Nor that I forgot.

I don't think their prior actions were malicious, but they definitely mismanaged their KS system and started digging a hole they could only dig deeper. They've worked remarkably hard to make good on their failings.

That said, I'm still out on Legends, and while I may be willing to buy releases from them, I won't be preordering or kickstarting anything from them until something happens with that.

Getting back to SPM/ND, I ultimately ended up selling off a fair chunk of my SDE collection because it failed to 'bring joy' to me when I saw it in my closet. I've unsubscribed to this thread, and won't even be posting here again, as I gain nothing from it.

Anyhow, good luck to you all in the coming year. Hopefully, things will finally start to unfeth themselves on multiple fronts.

So, yeah, fast forward 3 years and things did not, in fact, unfeth themselves. Sodapop / ND have shut up shop and anyone who didn't get their SDE or Relic Knight pledges isn't going to be getting anything.

Not that, after all these years, it was ever likely to happen.

Ho-hum.

https://boardgamewire.com/index.php/2024/03/11/thousands-of-kickstarter-backers-left-out-of-pocket-as-super-dungeon-explore-publisher-ninja-division-files-for-bankruptcy/

Yeah.
At this point I never expect to see the other minis they owe me. I kind of wish they'd just send out STLs for the stuff they owe so I can just get the few minis I care about printed.

Shame. Relic Knights is a good game and was one of the foundational Kickstarters that set the format of wargame croudfunding in 2012.

 Siygess wrote:
So, yeah, fast forward 3 years and things did not, in fact, unfeth themselves. Sodapop / ND have shut up shop and anyone who didn't get their SDE or Relic Knight pledges isn't going to be getting anything.

Not that, after all these years, it was ever likely to happen.

Ho-hum.

https://boardgamewire.com/index.php/2024/03/11/thousands-of-kickstarter-backers-left-out-of-pocket-as-super-dungeon-explore-publisher-ninja-division-files-for-bankruptcy/

Just to clarify, Sodapop and Ninja Division are distinct (but obviously related and largely co-owned and co-staffed by the same folks) legal entities and the closure of one doesn't necessarily mean the closure of the other. I believe in some of the financials they published (or came out?) years ago with their slew of failures to produce rewards showed that the first thing that ND did when a crowdfunding finished was pay Soda a "licensing fee" right off the top from the total amount. Just like KS, they always get their cut even when it's literally the left hand paying the right. The article also failed to mention the collossal mess that was the Robotech RPG tactics campaign that they ran and abandoned for Palladium but admittedly the majority of the stink of failure there lays squarely on Kevin Siembieda/Palladium Books.

Shame, but not really a surprise. I'm out $160 bucks, but it's too bad it had to come to this.

Had to come to this? Nah, it's almost always a choice to make a series of bad decisions.

 warboss wrote:
Had to come to this? Nah, it's almost always a choice to make a series of bad decisions.

Usually true, though in this case I think they did their best. Started with heart trouble, finished off by a global crisis that demolished the production route they were using. I don't think they're without blame, but they seem to have owned up to it and done what they could to turn things around rather than cut their losses and run.

Jarek just confirmed on the livestream that Archon are owed $150,000 by ND that they’ll never see a penny of so they’ve left a trail of significant debts.

I’d long written this off so no surprise but from 91 KS backed this is the only one that didn’t deliver me anything some others failed after the initial delivery when the money ran out. There was always something shady about the way they set up the licensing fees to SPM.

 LunarSol wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Had to come to this? Nah, it's almost always a choice to make a series of bad decisions.

rather than cut their losses and run.

Seems like they did cut their losses and run, last KS update for any of their outstanding products was 3 months short of 3 YEARS ago and that weasel John blocks and bans anyone asking about it on social media!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends/posts/3230614

Didnt mean to include Warboss's comment.

 Original Timmy wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Had to come to this? Nah, it's almost always a choice to make a series of bad decisions.

rather than cut their losses and run.

Seems like they did cut their losses and run, last KS update for any of their outstanding products was 3 months short of 3 YEARS ago and that weasel John blocks and bans anyone asking about it on social media!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends/posts/3230614

Didnt mean to include Warboss's comment.

Maybe the better phrase is take the money and run. It's pretty clear they actually spent it trying to get the games out and ran out of funds to complete the projects. They've at least tried to make enough money to to finish things off, but its not going to happen. The costs on these things are rising way too fast to ever catch up. I don't feel like anyone came out ahead on this one.

I agree though that the STLs of completed models and a digital release of the Beta ruleset would have been a fair concession to how they described the project failing. It is now far more feasible for backers to self-print, and could have allowed at least a dedicated fan base to recoup some of the several hundred dollars they likely put in. The approach they took on SDE gave nobody anything, and only served to theoretically preserve the IP for a future buyer.

 LunarSol wrote:
Usually true, though in this case I think they did their best. Started with heart trouble, finished off by a global crisis that demolished the production route they were using. I don't think they're without blame, but they seem to have owned up to it and done what they could to turn things around rather than cut their losses and run.

No, the writing was on the wall the moment they created a shell company with the same ownership, you do that when you know your business isn't gonna work out and you need to park money somewhere were liquidation can't touch it. Every single thing that happened after that was already in bad faith.

I wrote it off years ago - but still a bummer. I was owed some stuff from the last SDE KS AND I had picked up a few misc models from the Relic Knights 2.0 KS.

It's a shame - because SDE was a great game, and on a nice, sustainable path for growth for a small company (doing one expansion plus 1-2 mini bosses a year).

Then they did the big 2.0 KS, which was nice and delivered but flooded the market with kits and gave everyone who was interested in SDE 3+ years worth of content. And IIRC it was like, less than a year after that got delivered that they launched the next big SDE KS.

Relic Knights has been licensed by Ingition Core games, who have promised discounts to Kickstarter backers.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/815721.page#11730184

[Posting for those of us who haven't seen the new thread to know where to go for more info- comment over there]