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2023/02/05 22:35:02
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Here's the bottom line: Games Workshop is a billion dollar corporation ... Look at how cool the three or four new models are. Gotta consoom that new thing right?
A few points, I'm not impressed with the range offered, clearing that up straight away. They did a bad job on the units included, I don't think it would have hurt to have a few more relics and traits, maybe 8 subfactions for lolz.
That aside, they are not multi billion, they're not even a one billion dollar company. They are a producer of miniatures first and foremost by company statement. So everything you ranted about is literally what they tell you they are on day one.
As for the rest of this "consoomer" gak, stop taking notes off certain other whine-bots and go calm down. Not worth being angry about it all to the point you generalise and insult others.
They're not a miniatures first company.
Such a company would sell you all the different marks, civilians, cars, taverns, weapon packs, the various non faction xenos., etc etc.
And they wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for it.
I've stopped playing the game and I'm only converting models now. And even so the kits are bad.
Whoever decided that melee weapons are 100% on the left side of the models and bolt pistols/bolters are 100% on the right side should be fired.
And why do they continue to make upgrade options....but only for heresy?
Why are CSM all made as Black Legion?
They either suck as miniature first company....or they just want you to believe that they are.
I pointed out the melee weapons all being left handed the first time
2023/02/05 22:35:45
Subject: Re:World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Most interesting is that the Juggerlord appears to be a Carnifex situation, meaning if you can get an extra body (and just the body - you get extra Juggerlegs and a second head in the kit), you can build two Juggerlords from the same kit.
Goonhammer has an example where they used a Bloodcrusher Juggernaut to build both of them:
Spoiler:
SInce it looks like there are options for the rider to be holding onto the hook with either the left hand or the right hand, I really hope someone decides to make one where the World eater is desperately hanging on with both hands
2023/02/05 23:43:28
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
There are some high res sprue pics for those that want to check out all the heads in the new Berzerkers kit, and I also go through all the assembly options.
I might be crazy, but it looks to me like you used the same sprue picture twice for the Juggernaught riders.
In any case, I'm am quite surprised that you can't give 100% of the models some form of chainaxe, be it one handed or two handed.
2023/02/06 02:31:47
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Bob Lorgar wrote: In any case, I'm am quite surprised that you can't give 100% of the models some form of chainaxe, be it one handed or two handed.
Given that two of these kits are near recreations of previous kits, it seems that their thought process somehow morphed from "These units had these options!" to "These units can only ever have these options!". It's why the Juggerlord has to have a Plasma Pistol, and it's why the weapon options (or lack thereof) are set up on the 'Zerker sprues.
There are some high res sprue pics for those that want to check out all the heads in the new Berzerkers kit, and I also go through all the assembly options.
I might be crazy, but it looks to me like you used the same sprue picture twice for the Juggernaught riders.
In any case, I'm am quite surprised that you can't give 100% of the models some form of chainaxe, be it one handed or two handed.
Shame that we can't do the dude/dudette from the Codex Cover with an axe literally for their head. Not on their head, the axe is their head.
2023/02/06 09:38:23
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
World Eaters Crusade The World Eaters Crusade rules are all about gathering heaps of Worthy Skulls and offering them to Khorne – top marks for theme. Unfortunately, it falls foul of the Crusade system’s main weakness. There’s too much admin.
A World Eaters crusade force gains skulls at the end of the battle based on the number of enemy units you’ve killed. These get allocated to one eligible unit, so alongside XP, Rank, upgrades, and number of units killed, you’ll also be tracking the size of each unit’s skull stash.
Whenever you feel ready you can offer up those skulls to Khorne, rolling some dice – higher ranked units rolling more dice – and subtracting the result from the unit’s skull total as the God judges some skulls unworthy. The more Worthy Skulls there are left over, the better the table of random rewards you get to roll on.
This is a parallel progression system alongside XP, and another randomised progress system to go with Chaos Boons (also present). Some of the ‘Lesser Rewards’ are actually economic buffs – Favoured Killers lets you reroll Khorne’s judgement of a skull offering as if you were haggling with a pawnbroker, while Lessons of Slaughter increases the XP the unit gains from killing enemy units.
Administration is not Khornate, counting is more of a Nurgle thing. I don’t really hold this against the book – it’s a problem with the Crusade system as a whole. Narrative play has a reputation for being less intense than matched play, but it’s no less procedurally complex, it just happens on pieces of paper rather than the tabletop.
I enjoy Crusade despite my gripes with it, and if you do too then these are another fine set of Crusade rules, but it won’t change anyone’s mind about the system as a whole.
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
Excellent miniatures to use in older or different rules sets, then, I guess!
The single largest issue with GW at the moment is "no model no rules", leading to absolute nonsense like Catachan infantry squads being allowed to take... a flamer. Or Bezerker Champions not getting power fists or power weapons or anything else.
The single largest issue with GW at the moment is "no model no rules", leading to absolute nonsense like Catachan infantry squads being allowed to take... a flamer.
Two flamers
2023/02/08 14:56:43
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Watching the reviews by Tabletop Tactics and Auspex I am struck by something rather stark:
This is a Codex supplement ripped out of the CSM book and fattened up into its own (largely hollow) book. It's like the Red Corsairs and Creations of bile. 3 relics, 3 Warlord traits, 1 page of strats. No sub-factions of their own. No points-based upgrades. They're not an army book like CSM, 1KSons or Death Guard. They're a sub-faction put into its own book.
It's truly bizarre.
Reading the Goonhammer review gave me the same vibe. Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules. Worst case its a half-codex meant to tide you over until the second half of the faction is released next year with a new codex.
The cynic in me also couldn't help but notice that the "winners" from the codex are the new stuff like the Lord Invocatus and Eightbound. Your existing lords, bezerkers and terminators are strictly second tier or, even worse, suffer the fate of bikers etc and are no longer part of the army!
2023/02/08 15:02:20
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Yeah. I really don't know what I'm going to do with this one. As it stands, my current World Eaters army is essentially unplayable. I don't love the sound of the new codex, but equally I'm not sure how well it would work with the CSM codex and WD stop-gap rules for WE. And then there's apparently 10th on the horizon. I might just mothball my WE and focus on my Drukhari for now.
2023/02/08 15:06:07
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
2023/02/08 15:23:51
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/08 15:25:21
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2023/02/08 15:25:57
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Hard pass. Chapter Tactics was literally one of the only good things the GW "rules writers" came up with.
2023/02/08 15:30:08
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Hard pass. Chapter Tactics was literally one of the only good things the GW "rules writers" came up with.
Other than creating imbalances, what's it good for?
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2023/02/08 15:51:33
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Hard pass. Chapter Tactics was literally one of the only good things the GW "rules writers" came up with.
Other than creating imbalances, what's it good for?
It's a good flavour tool, but as per usual the second competitive play and tight balance enters the room they're impossible to get right and need to be taken out IMO. Nothing more disparaging than someone taking their ultra-iron-fists to game 1 as ultras because that's rule of the month then meta chasing the rule changes between the multitude of chapters. Worse yet, punishes people for trying to play to their choice of story and colour scheme.
2023/02/08 17:00:53
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Hard pass. Chapter Tactics was literally one of the only good things the GW "rules writers" came up with.
Other than creating imbalances, what's it good for?
It really hasn't created imbalances that much except with extreme circumstances. For example, Terminators even under Dark Angels aren't good. They just happen to get even more rules for Deathwing because reasons, and GW threw a lot at them. Then there was the occasion that GW threw TONS of rules for a singular Chapter Tactic equivalent. Most would agree Iron Hands didn't need three parts to their Chapter Tactic during 8.2, but that wasn't the primary reason they were broken.
No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
Would be fantastic. I'd be incredibly happy to see the back of gaming breaking and free bonuses to <unit type> based on <subfaction color>, and if you aren't playing <subfaction> you shouldn't use <unit>.
Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Hard pass. Chapter Tactics was literally one of the only good things the GW "rules writers" came up with.
Other than creating imbalances, what's it good for?
It's a good flavour tool, but as per usual the second competitive play and tight balance enters the room they're impossible to get right and need to be taken out IMO. Nothing more disparaging than someone taking their ultra-iron-fists to game 1 as ultras because that's rule of the month then meta chasing the rule changes between the multitude of chapters. Worse yet, punishes people for trying to play to their choice of story and colour scheme.
You don't need to the exact color scheme. Why would you care if someone uses green Iron Hands?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/08 17:01:43
2023/02/08 21:33:54
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
You don't need to the exact color scheme. Why would you care if someone uses green Iron Hands?
It's frustrating for people to ignore the setting and fluff purely to rules hop for power. I'd wager that Salamanders (given green example) player also doesn't really enjoy running as ironhands just to not be at a disadvantage.
2023/02/08 22:45:17
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Voss wrote: Bloat for the bloat god doesn't need to be the vehicle to sell rulebooks.
Each book having 3-4 pages of strats is bloat. 40 different types of Bolters is bloat. There being 10 versions of Scything Talons is bloat. Turning basic equipment into strats is bloat. Taking unit-specific special rules and turning them into strats is bloat.
Chaos getting Legions, Eldar getting Craftworlds, Tyranids getting Hive Fleets and Orks getting Klanz is not bloat.
Dudeface wrote: It's frustrating for people to ignore the setting and fluff purely to rules hop for power. I'd wager that Salamanders (given green example) player also doesn't really enjoy running as ironhands just to not be at a disadvantage.
I'd wager that there aren't enough people who do that for it to actually matter.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/02/08 22:47:17
H.B.M.C. wrote: Watching the reviews by Tabletop Tactics and Auspex I am struck by something rather stark:
This is a Codex supplement ripped out of the CSM book and fattened up into its own (largely hollow) book. It's like the Red Corsairs and Creations of bile. 3 relics, 3 Warlord traits, 1 page of strats. No sub-factions of their own. No points-based upgrades. They're not an army book like CSM, 1KSons or Death Guard. They're a sub-faction put into its own book.
It's truly bizarre.
Reading the Goonhammer review gave me the same vibe. Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules. Worst case its a half-codex meant to tide you over until the second half of the faction is released next year with a new codex.
The cynic in me also couldn't help but notice that the "winners" from the codex are the new stuff like the Lord Invocatus and Eightbound. Your existing lords, bezerkers and terminators are strictly second tier or, even worse, suffer the fate of bikers etc and are no longer part of the army!
The cynic in me suspects that when World Eaters get a dedicated Kill Team, it'll just be Berzerkers with an added sprue. Then those bits will get added to their datasheet.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
Fergie0044 wrote: Best case this is what all the 10th edition codexs will be like with a more streamlined approach to rules.
Wait, best case is 10th edition codices lose subfaction rules? You realize that means no more legion rules for CSM and they are back to warbanz again right?
I meant best case for WE players, who are otherwise getting screwed over. I'm certainly all for cutting out the bloat, but sub factions is the one thing I'd keep. On its own outside of additional sub faction strats/warlord traits etc etc they're fine.
2023/02/09 23:18:58
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
EviscerationPlague wrote: You don't need to the exact color scheme. Why would you care if someone uses green Iron Hands?
"Nice Sons of Medusa"?
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2023/02/10 01:08:53
Subject: World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
I meant best case for WE players, who are otherwise getting screwed over. I'm certainly all for cutting out the bloat, but sub factions is the one thing I'd keep. On its own outside of additional sub faction strats/warlord traits etc etc they're fine.
Since the WE leaks started to emerge I've been expecting that sub-factions for most armies will end up being replaced by AoR style rules that give you alternative (but not additional) rules. So for example an Ork Speed Freeks list might give you 8 strats but they will be different from the ones in the main Orks codex, and different again from a Walkerz or Beastsnaggas themed AoR.
