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A situation came up in a game last night which caused some discussion.

A unit of Stealth Suits was completely behind a piece of cover (Size 3 Area Terrain) . Advancing was a unit that had no line of sight to the stealth suits and was on the other side of the terrain.

The unit wanted to assault the Stealth Suits and was within 6". It rolled a 6 on the difficult terrain and so could make it in.

The discussion centred on whether a unit had to be able to see a unit to assault it. From the rules there is a clear LoS requirement for shooting but there doesn't appear to be one for assault.

So do the rules support a blind assault or did we miss a rule somewhere?

Pete

There is no requirement to have LOS in order to assault.

No requirement whatsoever for LOS in order to assault.

what about to flame template somebody

Flame on, but casualties can only be removed from line of sight.

Posted By foil7102 on 12/14/2006 9:42 AM
Flame on, but casualties can only be removed from line of sight.

Not quite.  You must have line of site to use a template weapon, but casualties do not have to be removed from LOS.

True, but I can think of a few occasions where the flamer would hit a unit out line of sight. (orks, hiding behind a truk, unit targets the truk but the flamer splashes over and covers the orks) Per RAW casualties have to be removed from range and line of sight. So, depending on how the truk is modeled, thoes krispy orks would be perfectly safe.

dang foil that is some slick RAW work there

but a flamer is an indiscriminant weapon and any models caught under the template are hit as well

you could argue it through the RAW of flamer templates and ordiance

Posted By thehod on 12/14/2006 9:30 PM
but a flamer is an indiscriminant weapon and any models caught under the template are hit as well

you could argue it through the RAW of flamer templates and ordiance

No you can't. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that template weapons don't follow the normal line of sight rules.

Feel free to quote something from the rulebook if you disagree.

 

 

The FAQ does state that casualties caused by an ordnance blast do not necessarily need to be in line-of-sight, nor do they have to be withn range.

And that applies only to that which it specifies: ordnance blast. No mention of weapon type Template.

Yup, that's another one of those little terminology issues that gets people all confused over the rules.

Blasts and Ordnance Blasts (or Large Blasts, as they are called under 4th edition rules) do NOT use Templates. They use the round Blast Markers.

Template weapons are weapons that use the teardrop-shaped template.

Posted By yakface on 12/14/2006 9:44 PM

Posted By thehod on 12/14/2006 9:30 PM
but a flamer is an indiscriminant weapon and any models caught under the template are hit as well

you could argue it through the RAW of flamer templates and ordiance

No you can't. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that template weapons don't follow the normal line of sight rules.

Feel free to quote something from the rulebook if you disagree.

 

 

Actually Yakface I would like to disagree.
Can template weapons damage models out of line of sight? I think so. Why? Because the rules for  template weapons state that you place the template weapon down and any models under that template are hit. If some of those models happen to be out of LOS, this specific rule takes presedence to the general shooting rule that you can't shoot models out of LOS. I agree with everyone that you must have a legal target to fire at. Meaning as long as one model can be seen you can drop that tempate weapon down. The only stated restriction is causualties are removed within template range, not LOS. So a defending player could if he wanted to, choose to remove causulties that were out of LOS, provided they are in range of the template. (And only because this is stated in the rules under templates, and otherwise with regular guns its generally banned)

Posted By Graatz on 12/16/2006 4:56 PM

I think what Yak intended is that yes, a flamer can damage other models even ones out of sight, but the *INITIAL* firing of the template must conform to all targeting rules.
If someone puts a squad right behind one that is being targeted then you may get some extra hits on a different unit even if they are out of LOS. But you MUST fire the weapon as the rules require i.e. center the template on the most models in the target squad. etc...

p.s. This thread started as a discussion on assault and not firing didn't it?

I kinda thought that too, but obviously I posted because I just wasn't 100% sure.