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Or is anyone else tired of seeing Space Marines.  I was looking at the most recent sneak peek on the GW site, and, I gotta tell you, those things look just like all the other 1000 space marine models I've seen.  Are those new?  I can't even tell if they're new models or not.  I'm so tired of seeing space marines.  Seriously, they pretty much all look the same to me.  I can't tell any of them apart.  Even when i'm playing against them, I have to ask what's what, because every figure in the unit looks the same.  Bah.  I'm tired of looking at the same model over and over again and having someone say....'wow, that one looks really good.  Blah blah blah...."  I guess it does look really good, in the way that all space marine models look really good.  Because they all look THE SAME!!!!!!!

Or maybe it's just me.

I hate Space Marines too, Max. I hate them so much that I need a presciption helmet just to think out them- it prevents the veins in my forhead and temples from leaping clear through my skin. 

However, the real question is how this is news or a rumour.

Well.... attack of the clones.... it´s no longer fun killing them cause they look all the same....

They're not all the same. Some of them have beaks!

While I often agree, this particular rant should be moved to discussion.

I feel that they are similar enough to each other, at least, to make it difficult to justify the way marines dominate their release schedual.

If I, for example, created 13 different Warhammer Fantasy Empire factions and wrote fiction for them. If I pitched the idea that we should sell these same Empire models but with three different themed releases every year. If I said that the only differences, cosmeticly, between the factions was that this one had wings emblazoned on it, and this one feathers, and this more skulls than usual and this one we should prescribe being painted blue, and this one red, and this one more blood kinda red. If I spoke in incomplete sentances consisting only of prepositional phrases.

Well, I'd be laughed out of the boardroom, because it doesn't make any sense.
They sell us the exact same models all year round and somehow convince us that these are 'new releases.'

The marine models we buy these days aren't original sculpts. At Adepticon last year, my hero Jes Goodwin described how when he was starting every marine had to be sculpted from the ground up and it became such a laborous and repetative task that he was quite glad to be done sculpting them (and for good reason.) Now, though, he said, you can build the marine with the plastic kit and then embellish it however you like because now the plastic will survive the mold-making process.

We're, basicly, being sold conversions.

Show me something new, that I haven't seen three-hundred times before, and then we'll talk about whether I give up my credit card number or not.

Two additional points:

1) This thread should be moved to discussions and

2) This rant will last me a good while, I think. I won't ask you to endure another for some time.

Kind of pointless discussion. Even though you may rant, sales drives it. If marines weren't so popular, and purchased, we wouldn't have so many variations. So basically the buying public seems to really disagree with you, as I do. Doesn't bother me a bit. In fact, if you hadn't noticed 40k is basically based around marines. The armour save system was changed just so marines would be marines.

You know what I hate? My historical. They are all just variations of "humans". Really repetitive. Nothing new. Part of the reason Flames of War doesn't interest me much anymore. It is just more WW2.

Actually you could do all marines with the same basic kit and an embelishment kit..... but I guess it makes more money the other way around.....

I quit 40k because of M and Meq armies dominating the playerbase. And I didn't like the rules.

If I was GW's production team, I'd have a "Space Marine Box" of X marines in power armour. Then a rather cheap "Chapter Box" with chapter-related icons based on what box represents what chapter. Then I'd have a "Generic Upgrade" box for your own chapter stuff, perhaps.

As a Marine player, I've gotta agree that GW goes way over board on their Marine releases. For what should be the smallest faction in the game, they are without a doubt the largest, and most produced. Bad GW! BAD!!!!!! Especially when it is extremely obvious that other factions need updates so badly it's stupid. Orks have had the same codex going on 9 years now. 9 YEARS! The Marines have had how many differant codex's in that time period? It's just stupid. Sure your fanboy teenagers may love it, but their not the ones who dish out the big bucks to this game. It's those of us with jobs and who support ourselves in life who do. And the majority of us would rather see the smart thing that prolongs the game instead of drives the more experienced player base away.

I'm just waiting for the day when GW will switch to prepainted
miniatures and call the game MEQwarrior. That will be a great
day.

I will kick the 40k habit for good.

That day is not so long away.....
And you better do not want to know what GW thinks of the experienced players.... it´s taught to the redshirts when they teach them how to handle customers..... guess what....

Prepainted mini's? Well, we would definatly have more players for WHF.

I wouldn't mind pre-painted Bloodbowl minis.

Posted By Bookwrack on 12/15/2006 5:46 PM
I wouldn't mind pre-painted Bloodbowl minis.

I wouldn't mind a decent Blood Bowl ruleset.

I am quite sick of Marines too. Very sick of them really. Both thematically, percentage of the miniature/codex releases they dominate, and the sheer number of MEQ armies you see at tournaments.

But as others have said, the customer demand really does drive the product in this case. The truth is, where Marines go, 40k follows.

So the only thing you can do to change this trend is to stop playing MEQ armies and always suggest non-MEQ armies to players who are looking for a new army. Oh, and run non-MEQ tournaments (they are quite fun).

Its kind of odd. I play DW and dont even think of them in the same strata as other marine armies.

I dont win very often, even though my opponents usually struggles to make the game a win for themselves. I chalk that more off to generalship than a simple army that is forgiving, as the DW most certainly arent forgiving.

The point is, I am sick of seeing so many marine armies as well (atleast the same kind over and over again). But not all marine armies are cut from the same cloth. Nor are all marine players for that matter.

Posted By Stu-Rat on 12/15/2006 6:06 PM

Posted By Bookwrack on 12/15/2006 5:46 PM
I wouldn't mind pre-painted Bloodbowl minis.

I wouldn't mind a decent Blood Bowl ruleset.

The current Blood Bowl rules are awesome.  The last version were pretty good too.

Blood Bowl is about the best written /designed system GW has at this point.

I though this would be a poll...

I don't have a marine army - I play Guard, and Daemons, but heavy Marine saturation is not always a bad thing.


Think about it, if every army is identical, the focus is now on tactics.

Sure the 6-man las-plas is an incredibly versatile unit, but if you and your opponent each have an army full of them - and you know that coming in - the game changes.

No longer is it about who makes the hardest list - a goal in any tournament situation IMHO
You could leave it to chance, let it be just about dice rolls - who gets 1st turn, etc - or you can take control of the game and employ historical tactics - or even new tactics .

I like going to a tournament understanding that I'll be facing 50%+ MEQs - I may not have a surefire tactic for defeating them - afterall everyone will play them at least a little differently - but I know what to prepare for, and have a general plan.

I think this is one reason that a competent Ork warboss can do well vs tweaked marines - an 'all-comers' list is (should be) weighted towards fighting other MEQs - because that's what you see most - is so isn't nearly as efficient when it comes to the Green Tide.

Now, a marine list can easily be tailored to take out a green horde, but then it wouldn't fare nearly as well against Necrons, or other marines.

That's why someone can have 10+ GT wins under his(her) belt. At that point you are beating the averages with a stick. They will have seen more than one hard MEQ list, and if they are consistently winning, there is more going on than just lucky rolling.

Yes, I am sick of Marines, but the sad truth is that it's an infinite loop... GW markets Marines with a ton of new supplements because they sell well, which results in more people buying Marines because they have new stuff, which means GW will see that sales of Marines have increased and thus market a ton of new Marine supplements because they sell well.. it's very sad, really, when as has been pointed out some armies need new Codexes and/or figures (Orks/Dark Eldar, I'm looking at you) and instead of doing this most basic of things, GW revamps yet another Marine chapter and comes out with yet another box of Marine goodies.

I mean, seriously, just throwback the game to the days of the Horus Heresy, so everyone is either Marines/Traitor Marines and be done with it, that's basically the trend of how it's going, anyways. Not to mention all the propaganda BS in non-Marine codices that seem to be written from the Imperial point of view, when they ought to be written from that race's point of view.

Marines are definately over-exposed with every possible variation being produced (Heck, they even have tranvestite cross-dressing the "I have a big secret" space marines- Dark Angels).

What I actually hate more than the fact that there are that many space marines is that GW just doesn't come out with original ideas/races very much. They seem to be stuck constantly "updating" existing lines of which the ones least in need of updates are the first to receive them. I honestly don't think it would take 6 months- 1 1/2 years to update a race for 4th edition. what I'm trying to say is that I want new races. Completely new races are shouldn't be THAT hard to come up with. How about the following:

A race that relies on drone/robots to do its fighting which are controlled by "squad leaders" which, while incredibly tough to kill, would effect its entire squad if lost. Think Tau crossed with synapse.

A race that is really slow (always counts as moving in terrain) and as such fights from the back of vehicles. (Think dark eldar but slow on the gorund and not as fragile).

The Hrud, Demiurg, K'nib and heck, even Alien Hunters (they have Meq but I'd still play them).

Irony.

Someone here tells me marines dominate the release schedual because customers demand it. But in other threads I'm told regularly that GW's business is floundering with flagging sales and ill-advised business strategies.

Now... bare with me for a moment, I think I'm on the cusp of a brainstorm, here.

No, its gone.

I think it's because GW needs to introduce new marines, like "Gold marines with red trim" or "Purple marines with white trim." People are tired of seeing the same marine armies, so obviously we need more.

GW needs to take a page from Warmachine and start furthuring its story....hell its been the SAME EXACT story since I started over 15 years ago!.....I just want to see something significant change in the game.  Kill a character model...start releasing new ones.....change whats happening at the Eye of Terror! SOMETHING to remove the concrete sandals that have trapped this story in its current state for years!

If they really wanted to advance the storyline all they need to do is bring back one of the Primarchs for Humanity to rally behind. Awake the Dragon. Bring back the Squats since most of the Mechanicus will side with the Dragon. Bring the Old ones back to fight the C'Tan and newly awakened Dragon, and of course the Tau will be revealed as their heralds. The return of Eldrad, except he is like Super Saiyan Eldrad. Gazhull thinking its a good time for another WAAAAAGH. Dark Eldar deciding to finally finish off their cousins, OR have them fall to Slaanesh. And have Abbaddon's chosen saunder out into Imperial territory.

There is so much potential in there but NOOOOO. They are apparently to afraid of alienating their fanbase if some people don't agree with how their army's fluff changes. HELLO! You're alienating your fanbase now with the stagnation.

Best of all I would love to see the Sensei finally become aware of their herritage and get fed up with the High Lords. Then re-awaken/free the Emperor. "It would be a sad error in Judgement to mistake me for a corpse Abbaddon..."

Posted By Atma01 on 12/17/2006 7:56 PM
There is so much potential in there but NOOOOO. They are apparently to afraid of alienating their fanbase if some people don't agree with how their army's fluff changes. HELLO! You're alienating your fanbase now with the stagnation.

 

What GW hasn't yet realised (or, considering their constant price hikes, maybe they have) is that fans of anything are morons. Or, to express that point slightly more politely, fans tend to turn a blind eye to stuff they don't like and then, just because if has the GW (or Doctor Who or Star Trek or X-Men or whatever) logo slapped on it, they come to accept it and eventually even like it, regardless of how crap the product is. It's the golden-turd syndrome (or as my grandfather used to say: "some people have trouble telling gak from ice cream so long as it's served in a bowl" .

GW have already alienated their fanbase on several major occasions. Remember the uproar when the Tau first appeared? Yet now everyone accepts the Tau as a stable part of the 40k universe.

So yes, there's no reason why GW couldn't shake things up. Imagine a worldwide campaign for 40k in which the Imperium is split in two and all those Space Marines players out there have to pick a side. That could (emphasis on the word 'could' - this is GW we're talking about here) be really impressive.

And I'd like to see the Squats make a return. But knowing GW, they'd ruin them.

 

Constructive ideas and I have to agree that there are many people who would jsut wine and complain.  But anything they do does not have to effect the way you play your armies.  It just has to effect the fluff.  I play a 100% Grey knight army and I would love it if either some things started happening with the primarchs or even if Abaddon pushed through the EOT blew up Cadia and started pushing towards Earth....now DAMN wouldnt that make all the marine players feel like every game they won/lost was important to the imperium and not just for the small objective of that game?

But alas...I doubt that GW is going to push the limits of the story at all.  So many great options (like someone stated above) Every army out there has something built into its fluff that can could be an enormous change to the fluff without destroying the way the game is played.