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My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

 Chippen wrote:
My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Unsure. Personally, I'm all about the Acid Spray T-Fex over both, but I'm still painting it up, so I have zero real-life experience as of yet.

 Chippen wrote:
My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Yep as someone when playing 8th DE always have 3-5 Ravagers, they are always moving. I've only played with Acid Spray Tfex so far (not R-Cannon i mean) tho i have played Exocrines a few times and Fex's a few times now as well.

My Exocrine and Spray-TFex had to move a couple times every game.

It might be my area, we play with a lot of terrain, and not just Ruins, but hills, tree's, walls, pipes, bridges, etc....

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Chippen wrote:
My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Yep as someone when playing 8th DE always have 3-5 Ravagers, they are always moving. I've only played with Acid Spray Tfex so far (not R-Cannon i mean) tho i have played Exocrines a few times and Fex's a few times now as well.

My Exocrine and Spray-TFex had to move a couple times every game.

It might be my area, we play with a lot of terrain, and not just Ruins, but hills, tree's, walls, pipes, bridges, etc....

No doubt the Tfex is bad vs dark eldar. But from my MTG background this would be a case if having a bad matchup. If you are making an all commers list and DE are not a big part of the meta just write it down as a bad matchup and hope to dodge it.

 Chippen wrote:

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Exocrines are less swingy than the Rupturefex between their weapon's higher volume of shots, fixed damage, and +1 to hit while stationary on top of firing twice. The Rupture Cannon itself also has had the misfortune of being... sub-optimal since the tail end of 5th edition so there is a bit of stigma there too. As is its new profile is probably the first time since 5th edition where it can perform its intended function.

I'm personally looking forward to trying my Tyrannofexes out. Just need some touch up work.

 Niiai wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Chippen wrote:
My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Yep as someone when playing 8th DE always have 3-5 Ravagers, they are always moving. I've only played with Acid Spray Tfex so far (not R-Cannon i mean) tho i have played Exocrines a few times and Fex's a few times now as well.

My Exocrine and Spray-TFex had to move a couple times every game.

It might be my area, we play with a lot of terrain, and not just Ruins, but hills, tree's, walls, pipes, bridges, etc....

No doubt the Tfex is bad vs dark eldar. But from my MTG background this would be a case if having a bad matchup. If you are making an all commers list and DE are not a big part of the meta just write it down as a bad matchup and hope to dodge it.

I meant, i also play DE and the are 36" range (Same as Exocrines) and even tho i play with 3-5 Ravagers i still move them all the time, i was agreeing with him that idk how consistent you can dbl shoot with them.

I just realised, metabolic overdrive can be used to make shure malanthropes actually keep up with the faster parts of our army. The pesky 5" is not so bad when I can go 10.

 Niiai wrote:
I just realised, metabolic overdrive can be used to make shure malanthropes actually keep up with the faster parts of our army. The pesky 5" is not so bad when I can go 10.

Kraken 3d6 advance isn't really that hard to keep up is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Chippen wrote:
My experience with 36" guns is Ravagers on the DE side. I'm constantly having to move to get a shot at heir intended targets. I'm just working on a 500-700 pt Kronos detachment to be a firebase for the rest of a 2k Nid list.

Also, Why do I see Exocrines mentioned over the Tyrannofex all the time? Unless my math is wrong, the TFex with Rupture Cannon is better than Exocrine against vehicles, which would be the main pain point that I'd be trying to offset anyway.

Unsure. Personally, I'm all about the Acid Spray T-Fex over both, but I'm still painting it up, so I have zero real-life experience as of yet.

I have the same feeling - kind of regret having no magnet skills as I built mine with a rupture cannon. The big bummer on the acid spray fex is that it's still heavy so you can't advance and shoot it. Which probably means you aren't shooting turn 1 due to only 18 inch range. I see it as being much more usefull as a defensive element to a pure gun line army. It will lay waste to anything trying to approach it.

It depends. First you need to be kraken. And if you are kraken chances are what you are trying to escort is also advancing 3d6 and the innisial 5" move becomes a liabilaty again.

If you want to advnace and shoot with the acid spray that one psykick power can help you out. Cast from a Neuronthrope for better chances of rolling it. Maybe even a 5 point adrenal gland for an extra 1" range.

I don't really have issues keeping range with my mal except when I throw the stealers up the double advance, and then fail my charge.

Trailing 2-4 hormagaunts back to keep the buff is trivial.

Been playing a highlanderesque list prepping for an upcoming event. I got smashed a couple times playing against Eldar. My list:


In both games, the Hive Tyrant Died on Turn 2 mainly killed by Dark Reapers. In one game I started him on the table in the other I deep struck him, and the Dark Reapers popped a strategem to shoot out of turn at him.

In both games I lose the Exocrine to webway portal fire dragons. In both games, the Genestealers died to a combination of: A big unit of swooping hawks, A big unit of Warp Spiders, and a Max unit of Guardians.

I had board control both games, and actually managed to tie the 2nd one on points playing the ITC Champs missions despite being tabled on turn 6.

It felt like my list was too balanced giving his anti-tank good targets while I was also giving his anti-infantry good targets. I need to revise it. I was thinking that if I drop the Exocrine, and replace it with more Hive Guard and a unit of Biovores I might not give opponents such juicy targets because I can deploy the Hive Guard and Biovores out of LOS. I'll deep strike the Flyrant and Trygon Prime at the same turn, it negates some of the Anti-Tank for at least one turn.

This is what I'm thinking:


I'd appreciate any advice, keeping in mind that I can't duplicate anything but troops, and have to run a single battallion.

I'm leaning towards a Broodlord in my 2k list. He very much will benefit the genestealers, and I don't have to worry about him getting faced in seconds. I might run him and some genestealers as Genestealer cults, for the cult ambush. It'll be wonky but i'll try anything at this stage. because why not!

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm leaning towards a Broodlord in my 2k list. He very much will benefit the genestealers, and I don't have to worry about him getting faced in seconds. I might run him and some genestealers as Genestealer cults, for the cult ambush. It'll be wonky but i'll try anything at this stage. because why not!

My experience with the broodlord is that his genestealer buff has never made a lick of difference. Either the genestealers overkill something or hitting on 2's wouldn't have made a significant difference. That was the original form of this list before I realized how close in price the Hive Tyrant was.

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm leaning towards a Broodlord in my 2k list. He very much will benefit the genestealers, and I don't have to worry about him getting faced in seconds. I might run him and some genestealers as Genestealer cults, for the cult ambush. It'll be wonky but i'll try anything at this stage. because why not!

I was using broodlords when I was playing index nids.

They're good, but too costly.

They'll outlive flyrants, but do the same gak as Genestealers, so if you're gonna drop flyrants for a broodlord, just take genestealers instead.

The more I play the more I'm feeling that MORE GENESTEALERS is the solution to all the problems that we have a viable answer for.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm leaning towards a Broodlord in my 2k list. He very much will benefit the genestealers, and I don't have to worry about him getting faced in seconds. I might run him and some genestealers as Genestealer cults, for the cult ambush. It'll be wonky but i'll try anything at this stage. because why not!

I was using broodlords when I was playing index nids.

They're good, but too costly.

They'll outlive flyrants, but do the same gak as Genestealers, so if you're gonna drop flyrants for a broodlord, just take genestealers instead.

The more I play the more I'm feeling that MORE GENESTEALERS is the solution to all the problems that we have a viable answer for.

I may be biased because i don't like the models, but i feel that they are too frail for what they cost. They are great now, but as soon as players learn to bring counters to assault armies and not only "Bring more pew pew!!!", these guys will suffer. I'm thinking about aggressors in particular, according to the rumors a squad of those will be around 100 points, but will erase 12,6 stealers on average every shooting phase (without buffs, with reroll to hit they almost delete a 20 stealer blob), while being a soft counter to our fexes and tyrants with theyr power fists. I think that 2 or 3 of these squads will become a staple of many SM lists, what do we have to counter those? Remember, they can pop the Auspex stratagem too.

Can you still use Shrikes even though they are excluded in the codex in tournament play?

Really need some flying in my list... Bought some gargolyes to strip the wings off but now I'm wondering if I can use them at all.

If I can, it would be an unit of 6 with BS and scything talons to keep the cost down.

Spoletta wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm leaning towards a Broodlord in my 2k list. He very much will benefit the genestealers, and I don't have to worry about him getting faced in seconds. I might run him and some genestealers as Genestealer cults, for the cult ambush. It'll be wonky but i'll try anything at this stage. because why not!

I was using broodlords when I was playing index nids.

They're good, but too costly.

They'll outlive flyrants, but do the same gak as Genestealers, so if you're gonna drop flyrants for a broodlord, just take genestealers instead.

The more I play the more I'm feeling that MORE GENESTEALERS is the solution to all the problems that we have a viable answer for.

I may be biased because i don't like the models, but i feel that they are too frail for what they cost. They are great now, but as soon as players learn to bring counters to assault armies and not only "Bring more pew pew!!!", these guys will suffer. I'm thinking about aggressors in particular, according to the rumors a squad of those will be around 100 points, but will erase 12,6 stealers on average every shooting phase (without buffs, with reroll to hit they almost delete a 20 stealer blob), while being a soft counter to our fexes and tyrants with theyr power fists. I think that 2 or 3 of these squads will become a staple of many SM lists, what do we have to counter those? Remember, they can pop the Auspex stratagem too.

You're right, if nids start to take over, people will adjust to hordes. As the meta shifts, so will we. Right now I feel like more GS is the answer, but when people adjust to hordes, more GS will no longer be the answer.

Auspex is limited to 12" and at -1 to hit, unlike the Eldar, so it's a bit more possible to play around, but it is still certainly dangerous.

We're pretty lucky in that we have a lot of deployment options and a wide variety of viable units. Melee Fex are cheap and actually hit fairly hard, but with a meta centered around taking down Magnus/Morty/Tanks they're just not very durable. If the meta changes, that could also change. Haruspex are really expensive, but a few things changing here and there in rules, meta, etc. they could very well become viable.

I think nids are good enough to start winning, but I don't think they're popular enough to shift the meta significantly. Even though IG is the most powerful codex, chaos is still more prevalent just because people like it more, and it's viable. When Orks get a codex though... another major horde army may be enough to increase the odds of seeing hordes on the regular to shift the meta. Who knows though.

tag8833 wrote:
Been playing a highlanderesque list prepping for an upcoming event. I got smashed a couple times playing against Eldar. My list:

Spoiler:

Kraken Nids

Tyranid - Batallion (1648 Points) - 5 CP (2 Relics)

Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 Devourers, Monstrous Rending claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs) Psycher - Onslaught, Psychic Scream. Warlord - Adaptive Biology Relic: Chamelic Mutation
Malanthrope
Neurothrope Psycher - Catalyst

19 Genestealers (Scything Talons, 4 Acid Maws)
19 Genestealers (Scything Talons, 4 Acid Maws)
4 Rippers
29 Termagants (Devourers)


Exocrine
Trygon Prime (Adrenal Glands) Relic: Ymgrl Factor

In both games, the Hive Tyrant Died on Turn 2 mainly killed by Dark Reapers. In one game I started him on the table in the other I deep struck him, and the Dark Reapers popped a strategem to shoot out of turn at him.

In both games I lose the Exocrine to webway portal fire dragons. In both games, the Genestealers died to a combination of: A big unit of swooping hawks, A big unit of Warp Spiders, and a Max unit of Guardians.

I had board control both games, and actually managed to tie the 2nd one on points playing the ITC Champs missions despite being tabled on turn 6.

It felt like my list was too balanced giving his anti-tank good targets while I was also giving his anti-infantry good targets. I need to revise it. I was thinking that if I drop the Exocrine, and replace it with more Hive Guard and a unit of Biovores I might not give opponents such juicy targets because I can deploy the Hive Guard and Biovores out of LOS. I'll deep strike the Flyrant and Trygon Prime at the same turn, it negates some of the Anti-Tank for at least one turn.

This is what I'm thinking:

Spoiler:

One easy change for the ITC Champs missions is to make the Neurothrope my Warlord. That makes it harder to get secondary points off of me.

Kraken Nids (Try 2)

Tyranid - Batallion (1650) - 6 CP

Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 Devourers, Monstrous Rending claws, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs) Psycher - Onslaught, Psychic Scream. Relic: Chamelic Mutation
Malanthrope
Neurothrope Psycher - Catalyst Warlord - Synaptic Lynchpin

18 Genestealers (Scything Talons, 4 Acid Maws)
18 Genestealers (Scything Talons, 4 Acid Maws)
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
29 Termagants (Devourers)

5 Hive Guard

Mucolid Spore

Trygon Prime (Adrenal Glands)
3 Biovores

I'd appreciate any advice, keeping in mind that I can't duplicate anything but troops, and have to run a single battallion.

If you can free up 30 points you can have a unit of spore mines. You already have a mucolid spore, but they you get a hure aerie to deny deep strikers that do not give up first blood.

NackaNid wrote:
Can you still use Shrikes even though they are excluded in the codex in tournament play?

Really need some flying in my list... Bought some gargolyes to strip the wings off but now I'm wondering if I can use them at all.

If I can, it would be an unit of 6 with BS and scything talons to keep the cost down.

Yes and they are not excluded from tourny play. You always use the most current datasheet. In this case the most current is the index. You pay the points cost and use the profile for it's weapons from the codex however, so they got a price drop from wargear. I always ran my shrikes as BS scy tal and fleshhooks.

 Lance845 wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
Can you still use Shrikes even though they are excluded in the codex in tournament play?

Really need some flying in my list... Bought some gargolyes to strip the wings off but now I'm wondering if I can use them at all.

If I can, it would be an unit of 6 with BS and scything talons to keep the cost down.

Yes and they are not excluded from tourny play. You always use the most current datasheet. In this case the most current is the index. You pay the points cost and use the profile for it's weapons from the codex however, so they got a price drop from wargear. I always ran my shrikes as BS scy tal and fleshhooks.

Be mindful though that Primes no longer synergize with them.

Spoletta wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
Can you still use Shrikes even though they are excluded in the codex in tournament play?

Really need some flying in my list... Bought some gargolyes to strip the wings off but now I'm wondering if I can use them at all.

If I can, it would be an unit of 6 with BS and scything talons to keep the cost down.

Yes and they are not excluded from tourny play. You always use the most current datasheet. In this case the most current is the index. You pay the points cost and use the profile for it's weapons from the codex however, so they got a price drop from wargear. I always ran my shrikes as BS scy tal and fleshhooks.

Be mindful though that Primes no longer synergize with them.

Never really did to begin with. Shrikes were too fast for the prime to keep pace. Also their Fly made them good surgical strike units, moving over enemy chaff to hit more vital targets which the prime couldn't do.

I main with Cultist-heavy CSM and I'm surprised that people haven’t already adjusted to hordes. Though I guess competitive Chaos players are spamming Malefic Lords and minimaxed Horrors, and the Conscript bogeyman has been banished.

Playing against my friend’s Tyranids, he had a Swarmlorded Genestealer horde. A few Stranglers was easily enough to wreck my screen to allow stealers to run in between the survivors and get to my Havocs.

Definitely looking into T-cyte Swarmlord, 30 Trygon Hormagaunts, and Pheremoned Tyrant Guard for my own Behemoth deep insertion force. Onslaught on the Horms looks good, with AGs that’s getting them well into the 9” bubble, T-cyte Stranglethorns should make a good contribution to opening a breach for them to flood through. Probably Catalyst on Swarmie? Old One Eye’s probably going to be my Warlord...

I finally found a unit that gets the most out of Hydra fleet! Crushing Tguards!
They get 50% increased damage against vehicles from the Hydra adaptation.
And that's it... no seriously, i really like Hydra, but it seems to be a couple of steps behind other fleets.

Spoletta wrote:
I finally found a unit that gets the most out of Hydra fleet! Crushing Tguards!
They get 50% increased damage against vehicles from the Hydra adaptation.
And that's it... no seriously, i really like Hydra, but it seems to be a couple of steps behind other fleets.

In my oppinion Hydra is much better than its reputation. It certainly has the advantage that Tyranid units are either a) always bigger than the enemy units or b) much more deadly in melee than enemy units anyway.
I think a lot of things in the Codex profits from the Hydra rerolls: Gargs, Hormas, Termas, TGuard and the units not benefitting do not need the bonus most of the time anyway.
Besides it is the only adaptation which grants rerolls to hit in melee.

Thinking of giving this Behemoth list a try at 2000 points:

Battalion Detachment:

HQ: Malanthrope
HQ: Hive Tyrant with wings, 2x devourers, bio-artefact talons, adrenal glands
Troop: 20 Genestealers with rending claws
Troop: 29 Termagaunts with Devourers
Troop: 3 Ripper Swarms
Elite: 3 Hive Guard with Shock Cannons
Elite: 3 Hive Guard with Shock Cannons

Spearhead Detachment:

HQ: Old One Eye
Heavy: Trygon
Heavy: Trygon with toxin spike
Heavy: 3 Carnifex with 2x talons, adrenal glands, tusks, bone mace

Fortification Network:

1 Sporocyst with 5 Barbed Stranglers


The idea being that 1 group drops close to the enemy ( 2 Trygons bringing in the gaunts and stealers, the hive tyrant, and the sporocyst) while the second group walks up the field trying to pincer ( 3 carnifexs, old one eye, malanthrope, rippers, and both hive guard groups)
The hive guard are for helping bust open vehicles, while the sporocyst, tyrant, and gaunts with the double tap strategem should be able to clear a decent amount of chaff, enabling the trygons, stealers and even the tyrant to attempt a first turn charge with the behemoth reroll charge.

It looks to me like there’s a really good carnifex that can be built for 120 points. Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, BS3+, bone mace and spine banks. There's a case for spore banks instead of spines, though that pushes the price up a bit.

You get something that functions a lot like a dreadnought with a twin lascannon, but for quite a lot less cost (120 vs 162). At that price I think they are pretty spammable. It also moves and shoots with no penalty, though it's arguably not as good in cc.

Does this seem a good approach? I can see a case for taking a load of these things. You could have them trundle forwards behind your faster troops, whose job would be to tie enemies up in melee to reduce the fire that came back at you.

Mandragola wrote:
It looks to me like there’s a really good carnifex that can be built for 120 points. Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, BS3+, bone mace and spine banks. There's a case for spore banks instead of spines, though that pushes the price up a bit.

You get something that functions a lot like a dreadnought with a twin lascannon, but for quite a lot less cost (120 vs 162). At that price I think they are pretty spammable. It also moves and shoots with no penalty, though it's arguably not as good in cc.

Does this seem a good approach? I can see a case for taking a load of these things. You could have them trundle forwards behind your faster troops, whose job would be to tie enemies up in melee to reduce the fire that came back at you.

Apart from really dumb comibinations, then all Cfexes have a role and can be efficent. I have 3 in my Kraken brigade and each has a different loadout.

Spoletta wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
It looks to me like there’s a really good carnifex that can be built for 120 points. Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, BS3+, bone mace and spine banks. There's a case for spore banks instead of spines, though that pushes the price up a bit.

You get something that functions a lot like a dreadnought with a twin lascannon, but for quite a lot less cost (120 vs 162). At that price I think they are pretty spammable. It also moves and shoots with no penalty, though it's arguably not as good in cc.

Does this seem a good approach? I can see a case for taking a load of these things. You could have them trundle forwards behind your faster troops, whose job would be to tie enemies up in melee to reduce the fire that came back at you.

Apart from really dumb comibinations, then all Cfexes have a role and can be efficent. I have 3 in my Kraken brigade and each has a different loadout.

Thanks for that. Carnifexes seem amazing to me, so I’m wondering why I don’t see more of them in people’s lists.

I guess I'm considering the use of ~6 of these guys as a way to have good ranged AT in a tyrannid army. They’d do 13.33 wounds per turn to Leman Russ equivalents at range, then make a mess of things in melee.

I’m trying to work out whether this approach makes more sense than going for heavier stuff, like Tyrannofexes. It seems to me that it does.

They probably do need spore cysts instead of spine banks to survive for long against leafblowers. The plan would still be to tie those up in gants or stealers while the big guys plodded into range. I’m looking at a Kraken list so it ought to be pretty quick. I’m trying to work out whether I need the swarmlord in there too or should just get a bunch of neurothropes as my HQs.

Spoletta wrote:
I finally found a unit that gets the most out of Hydra fleet! Crushing Tguards!
They get 50% increased damage against vehicles from the Hydra adaptation.
And that's it... no seriously, i really like Hydra, but it seems to be a couple of steps behind other fleets.

I was brainstorming this exact thing over the weekend. I'm very much pulled towards Hydra (or Kraken, or Behemoth...gah!) and the idea that I can let a Tyrant guard unit give up their bodies being a shield wall, protecting my hive tyrant, and then bring them back using the Endless Swarm Strat (along with Pheromone Trail if I'd like) is pretty attractive (though that is 3 CP, which is a pretty large investement).

Too many great options in this codex.

Comparing Carnifex with Heavy Venom Cannon to Tyranofex as a shooting platform, assuming the Tyranofex can stand still, you need 3 Carnifex to get the same shooting output. That's 350-400 points depending on setup, the T-Fex is only 239 and you get better AP and Str and D. The Carnifex, though, are more mobile and have better CC ability, so I think they are about right. I can see reasons for taking either, though I tend to take Exocrines and Hive Guard instead. Hive Guard being infantry gives them access to Single Minded Annihilation, which is glorious.