Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Seems that we really need to flood the GW mail box to get answer for the UWOF question.

Aside that, I wonder if you fellow dakkanists could help me out a bit. Our mini-highlander tourney has changed as a practice torney for our LGS tourney on may, so I have two 1k tourneys coming up and I'm having really hard time figuring out how to get a BA feel to my lists.

On the scratch board there's:

Slam
lieutenant
Mephy / sang ancient

scouts and maybe a single intercessor squad to fill out the batallion

for the T2 charge there's a 6man SG

And for shooting a hellblaster and a dev squad with ML. I'm some how fond on the multi-wound on those hellblasters. I think that a second heavy support is better than a plasma tacticals on a razorback in damage output.

I'm expecting to face atleast Ad Mech, Necrons and DG all resilient and the first two are very shooty. At this moment sounds an uphill struggle..

Anyone any suggestions are most welcome, tourney format is tweaked supply drop.

I've been putting a Stalker in every list, and never regretting it. I'm considering getting two.

I'm still not a huge fan of hellblasters. Maybe post-faq I'll warm up?

About that Facebook answer. It was a non answer. Of course you can use UWOF in the first turn. But that isn't the real question. The real question is can you use UWOF in the first turn Outside Of Your Deployment Zone. FB didn't answer that question.

I think Hellblasters are cool but don’t work well; our squads are at their best when they have maximum damage potential regardless of whether or not we get first turn. Each Hellblaster that dies linearly affects their damage output. Mini marines have the benefit of ablative wounds, while our heavy hitters have the benefit of being in orbit until we roll 3D6 to charge them where we need them. You need to maximize your output while being able to absorb losses, and Hellblasters are too expensive to lose a few before they can accomplish something for you. I love the models and have 15 of them but unless you’re playing RG or can hide them somewhere with a standard of sacrifice (that could be helping other units), you’re not doing yourself any favours. Especially at 1k points.

If I drop all the primaris I get this kinda list, but if we all agree that the first two turns are now for measuring more or less who has the most long range dakka, then I will definitely lose my shooting game against the necron and ad mech armies. So more guns and a single precision deep strike team with DoA, Mephy is point costy when you have Slam hanging there, but Mephy can be a real menace who wins games, don't you think?

Anyways here's the first draft, from where to tweak.. sniff, I miss my power sworded intercessor squad the most..

Wulfey wrote:
About that Facebook answer. It was a non answer. Of course you can use UWOF in the first turn. But that isn't the real question. The real question is can you use UWOF in the first turn Outside Of Your Deployment Zone. FB didn't answer that question.

Did you read the part where it said according to the new tactical reserves rule ?

 p5freak wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
About that Facebook answer. It was a non answer. Of course you can use UWOF in the first turn. But that isn't the real question. The real question is can you use UWOF in the first turn Outside Of Your Deployment Zone. FB didn't answer that question.

Did you read the part where it said according to the new tactical reserves rule ?

Sure. They are placeable again, according to the new Tactical Reserves Rule. Thus, they are placeable inside of your deployment zone. GW didn't leave any exceptions in there besides infiltration and GENESTEALERS. if:

ANY unit
ARRIVES
in the FIRST TURN
Then it must go in your DEPLOYMENT ZONE

If there was a carve out for units that have already arrived once, then that carve out would have to be explicit. The GENESTEALER exception is the exhaustive list of exceptions. The 'but the second arrive doesn't count' has no basis in any text anywhere, and the BRB is rife with use of the term ARRIVE in reference to any time a model comes onto the board. There is no notion of second arrives not counting as arrives.

Plus let's not forget source isn't even official source for rule answers so even if that was 100% crystal clear answer if you come into game and try it and opponent disagrees only OFFICIAL arqument you have is the official FAQ which is unclear. This wouldn't be much of help since it's unofficial.

Hopefully GW puts up official note one way or other soon. Hopefully "yes" so my orks can get little help but if "no" then...well orks are so boned rulewise(being outshot and being toughed out by IG! Outshot I can understand but being softer target than IG squads...) that this doesn't change things either way. I just want clear official answer one way or other so I don't have to discuss it every single new opponent! Shouldn't be too much to ask seeing how much we pay of models.

At this point, my opponents won't care.

Martel732 wrote:
I've been putting a Stalker in every list, and never regretting it. I'm considering getting two.

I'm still not a huge fan of hellblasters. Maybe post-faq I'll warm up?

The current list concept that's perculating in my brain while I'm sitting here at work has me fielding 2, maybe even 3 Stalkers... What's the actual point cost for them again? I think it's 124, but I've never actually played with one, so I could easily have that wrong...

It's 117 with a stormbolter and HK missile, the way I field them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, based off GW FB page, UWOF does still work. For the low low price of 3 CP.

Sorry guys. I was wrong. The warhammer community team has come out and clarified the RAW on the 'no deep strike' nerf. I asked:

Say I start my Bloodangels jumppack captain on the board in my deployment zone. Can I use Upon Wings Of Fire in my first turn to move the captain 9" from an enemy model and OUTSIDE of my deployment zone?

WH40K com responded with:

https://i.imgur.com/ePSiM9L.png

So yes, you can UWOF a captain that started on the board and then 3d6 charge. Smash captains now, smash captains forever.

Wulfey wrote:
Sorry guys. I was wrong. The warhammer community team has come out and clarified the RAW on the 'no deep strike' nerf. I asked:

Say I start my Bloodangels jumppack captain on the board in my deployment zone. Can I use Upon Wings Of Fire in my first turn to move the captain 9" from an enemy model and OUTSIDE of my deployment zone?

WH40K com responded with:

https://i.imgur.com/ePSiM9L.png

So yes, you can UWOF a captain that started on the board and then 3d6 charge. Smash captains now, smash captains forever.

I agree with this, and will be pushing for this locally, but also realize that the majority of us have, for some stupid reason, adopted the mentality of "unless GW puts it in an official FAQ, we must play it by the most-rules-lawyery way possible" even when someone at GW tells us not to...even if it is akin to stepping on a rake over and over again...

I'm interested in hearing what Frontline gaming has to say about this moving forward. They're playtesters and have GWs ear

 Voidwraith wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Sorry guys. I was wrong. The warhammer community team has come out and clarified the RAW on the 'no deep strike' nerf. I asked:

Say I start my Bloodangels jumppack captain on the board in my deployment zone. Can I use Upon Wings Of Fire in my first turn to move the captain 9" from an enemy model and OUTSIDE of my deployment zone?

WH40K com responded with:

https://i.imgur.com/ePSiM9L.png

So yes, you can UWOF a captain that started on the board and then 3d6 charge. Smash captains now, smash captains forever.

I agree with this, and will be pushing for this locally, but also realize that the majority of us have, for some stupid reason, adopted the mentality of "unless GW puts it in an official FAQ, we must play it by the most-rules-lawyery way possible" even when someone at GW tells us not to...even if it is akin to stepping on a rake over and over again...

I'm interested in hearing what Frontline gaming has to say about this moving forward. They're playtesters and have GWs ear

This is official. It overrules ITC/Reece. Not sure if the link will work but I got an on the nose answer from warhammer community.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/2013246645662631/?type=3&comment_id=2013294195657876¬if_id=1524246447432600¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic

I doesn't really "overrule" them, they can decide to run the ITC however they want. If the TO agrees with them, them's the ropes.

Their whole existence is modifying rules, this would not be an exception.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I doesn't really "overrule" them, they can decide to run the ITC however they want. If the TO agrees with them, them's the ropes.

Their whole existence is modifying rules, this would not be an exception.

The consensus in my group of ITC friends is that Reece made a deal with GW. ITC no longer provides a FAQ that overrules GW rules anymore. ITC provides a tournament mission set. The days of the ITC FAQ overruling 7th edition nonsense are over. There is no ITC FAQ anymore that executes above 8th edition GW FAQS. That line from GW that I linked to is the law of the land. If it starts on the board, then it doesn't get cokbloked by the deep strike nerf.

That's fine, but it's just opinion versus opinion.

Im just saying that, widely, if they decide to go "lol no" then it doesn't matter, because that's exactly what every lazy TO across the US is going to default to.

Wulfey wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I doesn't really "overrule" them, they can decide to run the ITC however they want. If the TO agrees with them, them's the ropes.

Their whole existence is modifying rules, this would not be an exception.

The consensus in my group of ITC friends is that Reece made a deal with GW. ITC no longer provides a FAQ that overrules GW rules anymore. ITC provides a tournament mission set. The days of the ITC FAQ overruling 7th edition nonsense are over. There is no ITC FAQ anymore that executes above 8th edition GW FAQS. That line from GW that I linked to is the law of the land. If it starts on the board, then it doesn't get cokbloked by the deep strike nerf.

Except for the part where ITC does not supply GW with a tournament mission set...

As a judge myself, until it's in an official FAQ or other rules document, I can't accept it.

Will probably play that way in local store games though.

See...stepping on rakes everywhere

We don't use Beta rules in my local store and stick to standard GW rules & FAQ's for our events. Makes life easy.

Wish more folks did it that way, but que sera sera.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I'm having really hard time while practising on my two tourneys in may. I just played a test game against my own death guard list at 1k points and it was so brutal. Even with second fight strat I couldn't bring down a foetid bloat-drone with my artisan of war captain or my charging 6man SG with DoA couldn't compete against a Nurgle DP with suppurating plate. Also my devastators were killed in a single turn with (use of re-roll) with the PBC.

Do you think it's just DG or is my list totally wrongly build?



Missions in the tourney are: front-line warfare (which I test played), scortch earth, dominate and destroy.

Any good pointers would be much appreciated.

DG are a tough match-up and no mistake. Their toughness kinda mitigates Red Thirst and we don't have the numbers to try and take them on in a battle of attrition. I don't have an easy answer, you build looks OK although a bit light on numbers.

Mephiston is too expensive for 1k. Basic JP librarian is my go to at 1k. Artisan hammer captain should kill the DP. On average without fighting twice unless you’re not using red rampage. I’ve had him bounce off a DP before but I’ve also had him tear through typhus and 3 Deathshroud. The dice are fickle.

Well, I feel like I always roll super poorly against DG. I actually had the red rampage on giving a single sdditional attack when I used the second attack. I rolled five twos on to hit rolls in the first volley of attacks..

Mephy made the only confirmed kill for me in the whole game. I had him in the list as another anti-armour option, becsuse a single dev squad didn't feel enough.

I feel like I need a totally new angle atleast against DG. I just don't want to lose the BA feel from it.

Fyi:

DG list was:

Bremon wrote:
Mephiston is too expensive for 1k.

Meph is well worth the additional 25 pts. If the dice gods arent in your favor the best list will fail.

Xirax wrote:
Well, I feel like I always roll super poorly against DG. I actually had the red rampage on giving a single sdditional attack when I used the second attack. I rolled five twos on to hit rolls in the first volley of attacks..

Mephy made the only confirmed kill for me in the whole game. I had him in the list as another anti-armour option, becsuse a single dev squad didn't feel enough.

I feel like I need a totally new angle atleast against DG. I just don't want to lose the BA feel from it.

Fyi:

DG list was:

Spoiler:

DP of Nurgle, wings, dual talons, suppurating plate, arch-contaminator
Chaos lod, plasma pistol, power sword

7x plague marines, 3x plasma
10x poxwalkers
10x poxwalkers

Plagueburst crawler, 2x plaguespitters

Foetid bloat-drone, 2x plaguespitters
Foetid bloat-drone, 2x plaguespitters

I face a 1500 point list similar to that weekly. That was almost identical to what he played regularly at 1k. My biggest learning curve was patience. Yes, Blood Angels want to smash face, but making slow-as-molasses DG come to you will make you feel like I imagine AM gunline players feel. Missile launchers are the most efficient weapon we have against drones, Capt Smash will usually lay some hurt on the DP. PBC without entropy cannons means you can effectively ignore that Daemon box, unless you feel like committing DOA captain smash to its demise; angel’s wing mitigates any overwatch in subsequent turns, but you don’t need to worry on the first charge; you’re too far for flamers and too close for mortar. All he can shoot is the stubber; big deal. Arch Contaminator is a great warlord trait to face; the 4+++ and -1D ones are far more obnoxious. The -1D one effectively ruins Sanguinary Guard against him.

 p5freak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Mephiston is too expensive for 1k.

Meph is well worth the additional 25 pts. If the dice gods arent in your favor the best list will fail.

He’s 25 more points than a JP Librarian. He doesn’t had a JP; he’s a 49 point upgrade to what he’s comparable to. You get a lot for those 49 points, but 1k isn’t s high ceiling. A JP Librarian can drop in with SG or DC to buff them; Meph can wave at them from across the table and wish them luck. Our Librarians aren’t great; if I get a cast of Unleash Rage off I’m doing well, and that’s a 6+. Mephiston is like a Librarian Dread; a nice bonus if it works. If your plan requires both Wings and Quickening to work properly, you’re generally screwed. I’m firmly of the opinion that Quickening’s warp charge is too high for what it gives you.

PBC was part of a tight pack coming towards your lines. Those drones reach a 31-41" threat range after two turns of movement. They will have targets on the second turn. 4x4 table is small even that I deployed my devs in the opposite corner of the map, but dice were on DG side to shoot my devs T1 with stubber and mortar, DP rerolls. Rerolling all wounds on PBC and drones is also nasty to face when 3-4 units benefit from it.

I'll have a new test game tonight, wondering if I should try that jump libby.. I only have two turns to stop the drones, PBC, DP rapetrain coming towards my lines. When I drop the Mephy I have only devs, Slam and T2 SG unless I uwof to throw them at. I'll sacrifice seven virgins to the dice Gods if it'll help..

I think dreadnoughts are a good counter against bloat drones with plaguespitters. The drone only has S6 with its spitters, and in CC, which means it wounds dreads on 5s. The best dread we currently have is the contemptor. Dreads use chapter tactics, vehicles dont. This doesnt really help us, because at S14 they already wound everything that isnt T8 on 2+. But running them as RG or IH will give you chapter tactics, -1 to hit, or 6+ FNP. You can use an auxiliary detachment for -1 CP, if you think its worth it. I made a list with a contemptor at 1k.

I'll proxy a fragioso as contemptor, but the list is supposed to be a tourney list against atleast necrons and ad mech, which I know I will definitely face along with DG.

Thanks guys for tips, I'll let you know how it fared.