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 oni wrote:
So what is the difference between Abaddon Black and the new Corvus Black? They're both Base paints and have the same description on the website.

Clearly, one is for chaos marines, and the other is for Raven Guard. You should know by now you can't use Corvus Black on chaos marines.

Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

 Cruentus wrote:

 oni wrote:
So what is the difference between Abaddon Black and the new Corvus Black? They're both Base paints and have the same description on the website.

Clearly, one is for chaos marines, and the other is for Raven Guard. You should know by now you can't use Corvus Black on chaos marines.

Corvus Black has a hint of brown in it:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

What’s wrong with that? No one is forcing anyone to use contrast. For those who don’t want to paint it will give less excuses for grey plastic. For those who just want a quick basic army they will get a better look with no more effort. For those who want a good result but don’t really enjoy painting it gives you better results in less time. For people who love painting it’s another tool. Lazy painters are better than hordes of grey.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

SamusDrake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.

Sounds like an irrelevant thing to worry about.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

People who enjoy painting will still learn new techniques and stuff, just like they do now. People who don’t now have a new option that may help them get models painted where as before they might not have painted anything.

Plus, who cares? How other people paint doesn’t affect you in the slightest.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
First I'll make my own contrast... then tomorrow, the world!!!

*lightning crashes in background*

Ya-huh...

Anyway, GW has finally revealed how they come up with their stupid paint names:

Spoiler:

I demand a colour named Incomprehensible Eggplant.

Finally, now I can up with a custom randomly generated skull skull paint scheme for the old Deathwatch Rpg randomly generated Death's Death custom chapter.

Contrast paint is not going to make anyone better...it'll make them faster. That's it. A professional painter will still make better use of Contrast paint than an 11 year old kid who's never touched a paintbrush.

To me (a founding member of the "Paint Your gak" battalion) I couldn't care less. If it means I'll see less grey plastic on the table/internet...awesome. While I absolutely expect people to paint their stuff, I don't have any expectations of quality. If you want to colour prime your marines and paint the bases brown...cool, good enough for me. I have zero expectations that anyone is going to have the desire to become a master level painter. But some tiny effort that says you vaguely give a gak about the aesthetic of this communal game is all I'm looking for.

 Yodhrin wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.

If that was the case then most people would be content with just one thick coat of base colours and no regard for neatness. There would be little demand for inks, washes, shades or contrasts.

But the truth is that a fair number of painters do take pride in their work and aspire to improve for their own personal and professional reasons. Contrast paints will not make painters lazy as they are just another option available to them. Those who are going to just slap on a coat of contrast and leave it at that never had any interest in being an artist. An artist would have that interest.

"Contrast paint is not going to make anyone better...it'll make them faster." -- Elbows

This.

This is why I am going to buy a ton of Contrast. I paint at a glacial rate, and this will help to eliminate much of my procrastination. Then I can finally have a painted Seraphon force, my Space Wolves will cease being Basecoat Wolves, and my Ysian and Jutes armies will be more than just primer.

Obispudkenobi wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.

That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.

I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.

Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.

It always amazes me the length people will go to in the pursuit of copying the amazing effort GW put in while not paying GW for doing it.

But didn't you know? Time is FREE!!!! UNLIMITED TIME!!!


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 Yodhrin wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.

Can confirm. Once I find a painting recipe that looks halfway decent, the entire army gets done in exactly that same way with no deviation. My Sigmar army just barely scraped max points at adepticon and that's my absolute highest painting aspiration.

GW has posted a couple of tutorials on Citadel Colour where they use both the Contrast and Classic Method on the model. There is a tutorial for a Space Wolf Grey Hunter and a Celestial Vindicator Stormcast Eternal. Using the right method for each area of the model really does provide the best results.

SamusDrake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

We must all band together to stop people painting the "wrong way".

Do you hear yourselves?

It's almost breathtaking in a way, isn't it?

Without pointing fingers, it would appear that "doing it right" has only resulted in some pretty mediocre results, so one wonders what the histrionics are for?

Listen, if you're worried about how this is going to produce "bad" painters, I've got news for you.

You are only competing with yourself, and your own satisfaction with the finished article is all that's important.

If your ability is currently outstripped by your aspirations, work at improving, but never hold anyone else to your own standard.

Im really excited for the white over seer gray.
That solves the problem of how I'm going to paint my shadow specters!

 Argive wrote:
Im really excited for the white over seer gray.
That solves the problem of how I'm going to paint my shadow specters!

I love that it gives the same effect as a pin was without making me pin wash anything. Give me that white in a dip and I might just do white armor space marines.

Guys I ordered a bunch of Bloodletters, and want to contrast them to speed the painting up.
Which contrast colors would you use? And not just for the flesh.
Thanks for your help

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Those guys wouldnt' be learning new techniques anyway. Hell they wouldn't even paint to any standard.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me

Put a varnish on, and the problem goes away...

Don't we all varnish anyways?

Varnish may not help if the paint is not properly keyed to the layer below. It will still chip away, especially with matte varnish.

It doesn't "chip". It wears off. Like every other paint ever made does, but since it's a thinner layer, there's less to rub off before you expose the colour underneath. Vallejo Model Color paints also rub off more easily than Citadel or Vallejo Game Color paints, because they're formulated differently for different purposes.

It happened to me painting a Marine; the paint on the knuckles of the left hand wore away due to handling. That could also be because I was speed painting and thus handling parts before they were properly dried. It wasn't even that bad, really. Only more noticeable because there's a greater contrast between the colour of the Contrast paint and the primer than normal. I've had similar while using other more traditional paints.

It takes very little handling for the paint to rub off quickly. In the space of time between finishing the model and bringing it home from the shop (I had it wrapped in some cloth), the paint on the robes of the sequitor I'd painted had rubbed off on a lot of the higher points.

That... could actually be interesting, if you can work with it in a similar way as you would with oil washes and spirits... If there's a way to control that rubbing off you could be able to work out the highlights, maybe.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

As opposed to what we have now - lazy painters who slap 3 thick coats of base paint on a model and call it done?

If anything the basic higher results that contrast paint delivers in terms of shade and highlighting might actually encourage more people to improve their painting. Many people fail hard at painting and it discourages them from taking it further because its a darn lot of hours to build up the skills to get better. If contrast paints give them a little boost; a better visual idea of highlights and shading then chances are they might well take a few steps further. They might well push themselves a little more because now they've got a decentish whole army they can spend time touching up and trying to improve upon it.


And some won't get any further than three colours slapped onto their model. And that's fine because its each to their own. If contrast means fewer armies of grey that's all good for the hobby!

I'm just looking forward to the stuff, I have a couple sisters proxies and some colors on order that I'll be using to see how this all looks, if it works I'll be ready to go for actually painting a sisters army in a reasonable time frame.

I think the contrast paints are exactly what big army games need.. in a skirmish game where you only have 10 minis to paint, who cares.. but when you have 100+ skaven, this will make painting a big army much less of a chore and more like something that's a lot more fun

So I wonder, how does the paint look (and last) over a plain gray mini, since lazy people are lazy?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window

Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.

We must all band together to stop people painting the "wrong way".

Do you hear yourselves?

Let's not be silly, now. I was saying that these contrast paints are not going to turn us all into lazy painters as was suggested.

Although Contrasts are made with speed-painting in mind, there are just as many artists out there as gamers who enjoy painting miniatures, and will merely add them to their collection of paints and techniques.

 RedizDead wrote:
Guys I ordered a bunch of Bloodletters, and want to contrast them to speed the painting up.
Which contrast colors would you use? And not just for the flesh.
Thanks for your help

Depends on choice but the id say fleshtearer red , black Templar , skeleton bone would cover you, possibly blood angel red for two tones on the body.

Jeebus, I can't believe we still have some folks whinging about "right way" and all that.

Look. Contrast paints aren't really a new idea. About 10-15 years ago, there was this big movement of adding Future Floor Wax to paints to make "magic wash," which was advocated to paint straight over white primer for "instant shading and highlighting." Even then, there was some of this elitism garbage.

Can you make your own (close) equivalents? Sure. Is there something to be said for the convenience sake and consistency? Yup.

There is no "one true path" in painting. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just a jerk.