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Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





I did consider those, but I'm unsure which one I should get/how to arm them. Any help in that direction would also be appreciated.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





Double Volkites Dreads with a Tallyman buffing them is the current best loadout. But make sure you magnetise the arms! FW are expensive and metas come and go.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Really good play by Beard in tabletop tactics. DG vs the current boogieman Admech and he came back from behind with a win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcxAGtPI6XM&ab_channel=TabletopTactics

And Stig did not play badly. I didn't spot any major tactical mistakes from Stig. His admech list was a good one. I dare you to say it had any deadweight in it. He had 2 units of 20 rangers and 1 unit and 20 vanguard, 3 squads of 2 chickens, and he was playing Lucious. Honestly, his list would have stomped a newbie several times over. He made great plays for VP and was ahead by a lot in VP.

But Beard showed great resilience playing his DG list and came back to win the game by turn 5. Absolutely massive. This doesn't mean that DG is good against admech. It isn't a good matchup for DG. But with enough line of sight blocking terrain, we can definitely have a good game, and with some good lucky dice rolls, might even win sometimes.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Eldenfirefly wrote:
Really good play by Beard in tabletop tactics. DG vs the current boogieman Admech and he came back from behind with a win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcxAGtPI6XM&ab_channel=TabletopTactics

And Stig did not play badly. I didn't spot any major tactical mistakes from Stig. His admech list was a good one. I dare you to say it had any deadweight in it. He had 2 units of 20 rangers and 1 unit and 20 vanguard, 3 squads of 2 chickens, and he was playing Lucious. Honestly, his list would have stomped a newbie several times over. He made great plays for VP and was ahead by a lot in VP.

But Beard showed great resilience playing his DG list and came back to win the game by turn 5. Absolutely massive. This doesn't mean that DG is good against admech. It isn't a good matchup for DG. But with enough line of sight blocking terrain, we can definitely have a good game, and with some good lucky dice rolls, might even win sometimes.


Aside from the mistakes he made with how his units acted (I don’t play as-mech so I don’t know exactly what stig did wrong with his rules, but I know ad-mech do more than what he showed), stig was way too
Aggressive with his troops. There’s no reason at all those rangers should have been as
Close as they where to the DG, and those walkers also where too far foward. Basically stig spread out and was aggressive, when he needed to castle turn 1 at least then be aggressive starting turn 2. If he got 2 more turns of shooting out of his rangers, this game would have been much worse for Beard. (Not saying beards list or playing was bad mind you, but Stig for sure could have played better).
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I've been through the thread with the search function and read up on what has been discussed about Blightlord Terminators.

I bought 10 and am about to assemble them, not really having them in any lists of any kind.

It seems based off the discussions that a few of you are really partial to the flail as it's got a +1 hit and 2 damage if I'm not mistaken.

From what I gather, upgrading them to shoot better or fight better is mostly a waste considering their main purpose currently seems to be holding objectives.

It seems that some of you also think that barebones combi weapons and swords essentially achieves the same thing.

I guess I'm trying to revive the discussion on Blightlords while seeking advice on how to build them with gaming in mind.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I found this video was a great analysis on blightlords:



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Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

I run a 10 man anvil with 2x Reapers, 2x Flails, axes/bolters on everybody except the champion who has a sword/bolter in case I decide to give him Plaguebringer, and they've done brilliantly for me. Would never bother giving them combi-weapons.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Generally you want to keep your blightlords cheap. Even with special weapons, they are not that shooty compared to what other factions can bring. Even within our codex and faction, a twin volkite contemptor is better at shooting than blightlords. And melee wise, Deathshroud are better. Blightlords are used like an Anvil. Your deathshrouds are your hammer.

So, combi bolters are good enough for blightlords to keep them cheap. I love reaper autocannons on them over blight launchers though. because those will get more chances of additional shots from the tollkeeper relic on a Tallyman.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 03:35:21


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Marshal Loss wrote:I run a 10 man anvil with 2x Reapers, 2x Flails, axes/bolters on everybody except the champion who has a sword/bolter in case I decide to give him Plaguebringer, and they've done brilliantly for me. Would never bother giving them combi-weapons.


Eldenfirefly wrote:Generally you want to keep your blightlords cheap. Even with special weapons, they are not that shooty compared to what other factions can bring. Even within our codex and faction, a twin volkite contemptor is better at shooting than blightlords. And melee wise, Deathshroud are better. Blightlords are used like an Anvil. Your deathshrouds are your hammer.

So, combi bolters are good enough for blightlords to keep them cheap. I love reaper autocannons on them over blight launchers though. because those will get more chances of additional shots from the tollkeeper relic on a Tallyman.


Thanks so much for your guidance, I was kind of leaning towards a bare bones approach. Ut's been years since I've played a full scale game, are compettive events pretty strict about the weapons on models? I doubt people would be as up in arms if I had a blight launcher model with a combi bolter weapon profile rather than visa versa.
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Darkmatter wrote:
Ut's been years since I've played a full scale game, are compettive events pretty strict about the weapons on models? I doubt people would be as up in arms if I had a blight launcher model with a combi bolter weapon profile rather than visa versa.


It varies from tournament to tournament, so if you have any local TOs it might be worth contacting them for advice. Generally though the events I'm familiar with are reasonably strict on WYSIWYG and any proxies/conversions have to be cleared with the TO. It might be alright if you're counting an entire unit as having the same loadout but I wouldn't count on it.

If you're looking to preserve the look of heavy weapons etc on the Terminators for a rule-of-cool approach, might I suggest magnetising them? I didn't bother with mine personally but Blightlord models lend themselves quite well to it. Just file down and insert a magnet where the little triangular joint bit is on both the torso and the arm and it lines up really easily. Google will be of help here.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





Is the great plague cleaver worth using? It seems to be a better power fist, though there is the 1/6 possibility of dealing less damage.
   
Made in ca
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The Frozen North

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is the great plague cleaver worth using? It seems to be a better power fist, though there is the 1/6 possibility of dealing less damage.

With melee weapon Plague Marines having 3A base, it's certainly much better than it used to be. In my experience the Flail is still significantly better, as it's more reliable.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

It can be worth using with Haze of Corruption against certain armies - e.g. new T5 W1 Orks - if you're going all-in on melee plague marines. Wouldn't generally take it though.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Looks like soup is back on the menu boys! Those Tsons pyskers are looking mighty tasty. Too bad their army is too fragile to actually protect those characters in any competitive setting. Luckily DG do a much better job of keeping these flimsy sorcerers safe. I’m going to run a rubric brick, Arhiman, an exalted sorc, and a 5 man SOT unit with my morty list. Using The -D strat + weaver of fates/glamour I’ll keep the termies and rubrics safe, and use the bulk of the DG force to survive No fancy Kabal rituals, secondaries, or relics and warlord traits from the sons, but being fancy doesn’t win games. Having an army that’s durable, good in melee, and good at midrange does win.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Quick question for the masses..

I have a mix of DG units that I picked up for some narrative 'break quarantine" games last year, but I just picked up the codex and want to make them a cohesive force.

What I have currently..

Lord of Contagion x2 (the felthius guy plus generic)
Plaguecaster
14 plague marines (although it contains 3 champs currently, looking at loadouts)
20 poxwalkers
Blightbringer
Hellbrute
3 blightlord terminators (felthius group)
bloat drone
2 Oblits (which I realize is a mistake now, so I may just repaint some parts with Iron Warriors and lend them over)

From a quick breeze through the codex it looks like the blightbringer really doesn't bring anything, unless I'm missing something (shame, nice model).
Tallyman looks like a good pick up, and wondering if I could convert the blightbringer to one. Of the other elite characters, which ones stand out in game play?

I'm planning on getting some more terminators (need to) so will have 8 of those. Also thinking a box of plague marines to round out those to 2x10, or 3x7 or 4x5.
Don't really want more poxwalkers.
Looking at cost (money wise), the blighthaulers seem like a reasonable investment (maybe 2).

What other direction is recommended (but not FW as I'm not interested in going that way).

Cheers
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





14 Plague Marines is probably enough to be honest depending on what loadouts they have. If you can make a couple of 5 man units with a blightlauncher and flail in each you're probably in reasonable shape.

A box of blightlords to push them up to 8 would certainly not go amiss, maybe a box of deathshroud, you could put felthius with them and run him as a deathshroud champion as you don't really need 2 LOCs.
Blightbringer as you say I'd look to convert him to either a tallyman or biologus putrifier.

14 PMs, 8 Blightlords, 4 Deathshroud, Tallyman, Plaguecaster and LOC is a decent flexible base of infantry to start putting lists together I reckon.

A pair of blighthaulers gives you a bit of armour and antitank and is cheaper than a single PBC so again not a bad shout at all.

I'm guessing your bloat drone is the monopose spitter one? If you picked up a bloat drone kit you could quite easily magnetise them both and have options on HBL and mower and if you look online people have kitbashed mowers out of plasterboard screws or other random junk.

Deathguard are really great for being able to easily convert models with a little bit of skill, they're very forgiving if things are a bit scruffy!

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Is there any synergy in souping DG with Tsons? Have a patrol with a big bloc of blightlords with Typhus and a Foul Blightspawn and maybe one squad of poxwalkers.

Then another patrol of Tsons. Trying to footslog deathshroud across the board is not easy. Tsons can just yeet a bloc of Occult Terminators forward to wherever they want with that crystal artifact.

Is giving up cabal points and gift of nurgle worth it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/19 02:01:17


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





You could live without gift of nurgle, as long as your list and game plan accounts for it. Cabal points seem really useful, but Tsons seem to lack staying power so the trade for some DG units could be worth it.

The real question is can you live with yourself for mixing nurgle and tzeentch in such an unfluffy way??? :p
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

So who is still competing with Death Guard?

The meta has felt particularly rough for us up to the new big three were introduced (Ork, GK, Tsons), but three new codexs can go a long way in shaking up the meta.

Any new builds feeling solid?

I just got off the waitlist to go to the US open in Austin and while it is a couple of months out I am trying to already plan what I want to bring.

Deathguard are what I have the most models and experience for, so trying to make them work is the goal. Just playing around with different lists though Im not seeing anything really jump out at me. We have got some new soup options relatively recently, so maybe there is something to go off of there.

Belakor in Slaanesh daemons (act as a mortarion replacement. A bit faster, a sidegrade in durability as utilizing obscuring goes a long way), and fiends trapping units in combat seems solid in the meta.

Tsons offer a potential cover for midrange strong firepower that DG lack. Also lots of mortals.
Current list has 3 Tsons psycher baddies and 6 five man unit of rubric marines with warpflamers for midboard control and pressure, with a Death Guard detachment of triple PBCs and some death shrouds.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to build a list to compete in an event like the US open?


I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

A mono-DG just took 2nd place at a GT in my neck of the woods.

No morty, but took 3 volkite contemptor and the usual smatterings of shrouds, poxwalkers and 3x PBC.

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I plan on switching gears from my Chaos Knights plan at the Michigan GT in October to running mono Death Guard. In practice my Knights just were too swinging, either completely demolishing my opponents or completely getting demolished by a fine tuned list.

I think DG in the hands of a competent general can win more often than it loses and competes against every army out there. I think the reason a lot of the big events have DG in 2nd - 10th is because we can win a lot of close games and lose the event on low battle points over all. Going 5-0 but winning each game 80-70 means you’re gonna lose to a guy going 5-0 playing ad Mech or dark eldar winning his games 95-50.

I’m far from a try-hard, but I sure like winning. I think the Dg book in general allows for a shot in every game.

As far as lists go, the top lists seem to have a few things in common: Deathshroud, PBCs, foul blight spawn with the relic, Tallyman, Pox Walkers, contemptors, Blightlords.Things that aren’t in the winning lists? Cultists, uhhh, plague marines, possessed?

You can’t even really draw a line on the best Plague companies, Inexorable seems to be most popular but after that, it seems to be really a crap shoot.

Stuff that could be good depending on build? Haulers and Drones, spawn, Princes?

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So after playing the new DG codex for a long time now I feel that I have enough information to give an honest assessment of what needs to change going forward. I have developed a list of some small tweaks I would love to see in the next FAQ to help balance out the codex more and ensure it remains competitive. Overall, it isn’t in a bad place but with ever new codex the power creep is already beginning to leave the DG Behind.

Points adjustments
-Plague Marines go to 20 points per model w/ all weapon upgrades are only 5pt upgrades. (these guys just are not seeing play and need a small boost)
-Myphitic Blight Haulers go to 120 points per model. (At 140pts they are absurdly overpointed and are not really competitive in any sense)
-Foetid bloat-drone go to 130 points per model and the flesh mower costs 10pts (this just makes the flamer/heavy blight launcher variants cheaper)
-Deathshrouds chimes and champion’s extra gauntlet go to 0pt as upgrades.
-Possessed go to 22pts each (no one uses them and they lack all flexibility, they likely need to go lower)
-Chaos Spawn go to 25pts each and increase in points (23pts is just silly)
-Plague Surgeon goes to 65pts (not competitive and lacks the ability to bring back models)
-Reduce Demon Prince’s wings cost to 25pts each (35pts for 2” of movement and fly keyword is a tad silly)
-Biologus purifier goes to 60pts (no one takes PMs to make this guy really worth it since they are the only ones to take grenades and make them useable)
-ALL Deadly pathogens go to 10 or 15pts. (These abilites could make heroes interesting but they costed them out of playable)

Rules changes:
-Inexorable Advance apples to every DG unit so long as the entire army is DG (silly this isn't a rule like it is for all SM chapters)
-Infernal jealously changed so that you can’t have 2 lord with the same name in the same detachment (random nerf, this opens up some options such as having a lord of contagion and lord of virulence in the same detachment)
-Noxious Blightbringer needs either a new relic or new data sheet. No points drop is going to make him worth it. Maybe he can reduce enemy charges or allow rerolls of charges for friendly DG Core units
-Bring back the ability to give units disgustingly resilient like at the end of 8th. (Defilers, rhinos, land raiders)

Strategem changes (not sure why our strategems cost so much compared to other new codexes)
-Cloud of flies only costs 2 CP on terminators unless they have more than 5 models (insane it costs 4)
-Haze of corruption goes to 1CP (Very few units can actually take advantage of this. Keep it 2 for Deathshroud everyone else 1CP
-Sickly corrosion goes to 1CP never seen this used at 2CP since most weapons are already plague weapons

Thoughts. Small changes and would allow some less played stuff to see some action.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





My plague Marines are seeing plenty of play, nothing wrong with them and they are a bargain at 21 points. Intercessors are 20 and they have less toughness, no -1 dmg, and are not as good in cc. I think they are balanced, people are just too tempted to run poxwalkers with Blightlords/Deathshroud because they are so strong.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Plague marines still just.... die.
No defence to mortals, no invul, still just 3+ armor means any sort of efficient marine killer (high volume ap -1/-2/ mortal wounds) will work against Plaguemarines, even with the +1 toughness.

They are OK. Just not really good enough to make me want to bring them.

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





MBH are great and absolutely competitive at 140pts. If you drop them to 120 you'll have at least 6 in every list.

NBB is not useless. An extra inch moment every turn adds up to an extra moment phase per game in an edition where ability to get around the board is one of the most important things.

Plague marines are fine at 21pts. Intercessors are 20pts and while they do contribute a bit more with their guns they still don't really do anything either. PMs are tougher and better in melee and should be a point more than an int. PMs only don't see more play because we have other great options for infantry

   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Plague Marines are not fine at 21 points imo. They are decent in more casual play, but even there they feel like a unnecessary weight that the rest of my list has to compensate for. Poxwalkers and Terminators are just way better at whatever PM try to do. Yes they are decent in melee, but have no real means to get there other than hope the enemy walks into them and their ranged output for their points is beyond abysmal.
They are by no means garbage and I love running them but let's not delude ourselves into thinking they are fine as is. They need a 1 or 2 point drop and preferably their weapons get costed like their Terminator counterparts. That way we might see them in their intended function: the real backbone of any DG army rather than being outshone by every other real infantry selection in our codex.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





While I agree the weapons options could be reduced in points cost, Plague Marine shooting is not Abysmal. Take a regular 210 point barebones squad, 10 Plague Marines, Have a Lord of Virulence move up with them towards an objective with a Tallyman. 2+ to hit re roll ones, -1 ap for inexorable ( use flash outbreak, Foul Effluents, or just get a Lord of Contagion or FTB in contagion range of your target ) Tollkeeper relic for 6's generate more hits, and 6's to wound will be -2 ap. All of a sudden firepower comparable to intercessors with Captain support, except we also get -1 toughness, so we wound admech infantry on a 2+, and Marines on 3+. Also lets not forget they always count as stationary so move em forward and they have a 29" range, can make it up to 35" with Overwhelming Generosity, Virulent Rounds for re roll wounds of 1 for more chances at ap -2. Not bad at all. And still got Trench Fighters for melee, and if you really wanna go crazy 2 CP for +1 to wound from eternal hatred.

Abysmal? 5 toughness -1 damage for 1 more point from an Intercessor? I think not. If anything Plague Marines are superior Troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also never forget about the Blightening strat, so powerful. If you have 3 plague marines left you get 18 grenade attacks, can get buffed by the Lord of Virulence/Tallyman/Inexorable/Biologus Putrifier, and take out some infantry like no ones business for 1 cp.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/02 19:03:03


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Yeah I agree on the Plague Marines! They aren’t bad, just their role is filled better by different models in our book. There might be a play style where min/max rhino based Plague Marines is the core of the list but I feel like when you start adding support pieces, it’s almost better to just go back to Blightlords for a shooting block and Deathshroud for deep striking and/or counter charging. Those units are more durable and WAY more deadly for not that much more of a points investment.

If our book didn’t have Blightlords or Deathshroud, I believe there would still be pretty good results out of the codex with Plague Marines being the stars.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I agree on the Plague Marines! They aren’t bad, just their role is filled better by different models in our book. There might be a play style where min/max rhino based Plague Marines is the core of the list but I feel like when you start adding support pieces, it’s almost better to just go back to Blightlords for a shooting block and Deathshroud for deep striking and/or counter charging. Those units are more durable and WAY more deadly for not that much more of a points investment.

If our book didn’t have Blightlords or Deathshroud, I believe there would still be pretty good results out of the codex with Plague Marines being the stars.


2000 points list Shouldent have too much trouble fitting all 3 in a list. Heck just having 1 squad of 10 plague marines is very easy to add in a patrol, 210 points for toughness 5 -1 dmg 40 wounds is not a bad thing, even if you just use them as an objective cannon fodder unit. If you have 20 points to spend after you build the list throw the blight launchers on the squad.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





A big bloc of 10 Plague Marines is a massive threat in combat, a pain to kill off on the table, and have obsec, which our termies don't. They also get to use cool strategems like The Blightening. And Cloud of Flies only cost 2CP on this big bloc compared to 4 on our termies.

Bringing a big block of 10 plague marines plus a big block of Blightlords means that your opponent has two extremely hard to kill units on the table. One he can't shoot because of cloud of flies, and another that is one of the toughest units in the game to kill.
   
 
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