40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**KillswitchUK**

Yeah i just saw, I dont think he knows what he's talking about lol!

**Cephalobeard**

Let it die, folks. Must of been an error.

**bobafett012**

ClockworkZion wrote:
KillswitchUK wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:
I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question

Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?

A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.

For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.

Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....

40k Facebook page Q&A stuff.

That said, I posted on their page for clarification on what they meant and hopefully in a day or so we'll get a response.

For now I assume we should err on the side of caution and assume that if the wargear list has a points cost, it costs points until we can see otherwise.

Yeah the more I think about it the less sense it makes. There would be some crazy cheap and crazy expensive units. I guess GW is just too stupid to answer a basic question, not really surprising i suppose though....

**rippounet**

Voldrak wrote:
How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.

Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.

That's up to 6 wounds without any kind of saves allowed on most units, 8 on the slowest. It basically has the potential to wipe an entire unit or a character in one dice roll. I know what the avrages are, thank you, I just think it will be terrifying to be on the receiving end, hoping that the SW player doesn't roll that double 6...

**Motograter**

The tzeentch spell list. Is it confirmed its daemons only and if you have thousand sons you only get the base chaos powers?

And like seriously khàrn and berzerkerd any info at all?

**A Watcher In The Dark**

If you don't have to pay for the default loadout on top if the price for without wargear this edition is doomed. Nothing make sense or would be balance. You get 150 pts stormsurge running around with 23pts Hellblaster and very gakky overpriced 13pts marines without any plasma gun.

So they fethed up in the Q&A.

**Caederes**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Via Facebook (IDK if said yet)

"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."

They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.

**Ronin_eX**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Let it die, folks. Must of been an error.

Oh thank Mork'n'Gork, some stuff would be utterly insane if it came at the listed cost. Glad it appears to have been a misunderstanding on the Q&A person's part.

**Bertock**

rippounet wrote:
Voldrak wrote:
How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.

Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.
That's up to 6 wounds without any kind of saves allowed on most units, 8 on the slowest. It basically has the potential to wipe an entire unit or a character in one dice roll. I know what the avrages are, thank you, I just think it will be terrifying to be on the receiving end, hoping that the SW player doesn't roll that double 6...

That's what the reroll stratagem is for

**ClockworkZion**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Let it die, folks. Must of been an error.

Bam. Thanks for helping smother this before it had a chance to get silly!

**Fenris-77**

Caederes wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Via Facebook (IDK if said yet)

"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."

They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.

Yeah, for about as long as it takes the first guy they play who does know the rules to smack them upside the head. Problem solved.

**Youn**

Please, please make Battlescribe work out the gate!.....

**ClockworkZion**

bobafett012 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
KillswitchUK wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:
I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question

Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?

A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.

For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.

Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....

40k Facebook page Q&A stuff.

That said, I posted on their page for clarification on what they meant and hopefully in a day or so we'll get a response.

For now I assume we should err on the side of caution and assume that if the wargear list has a points cost, it costs points until we can see otherwise.

Yeah the more I think about it the less sense it makes. There would be some crazy cheap and crazy expensive units. I guess GW is just too stupid to answer a basic question, not really surprising i suppose though....

Assuming that he's mentally deficient for misunderstanding the question is a bit of a stretch. Even the smartest people can be tripped up by a small misunderstanding. Hence why clarification is so important to ensure a complete understanding.

That said, Foley killed the problem before it became an issue: you pay points if the wargear has a cost.

**Galas**

Luciferian wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:
I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question

Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?

A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.

For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.

I sincerely hope that's true, otherwise the increased points cost of my models really stings.

That answer goes against the post of Warhammer Community today.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/30/new-warhammer-40000-choosing-your-army-may30gw-homepage-post-4/

Here you can see how they have included the weapons even the ones that cost 0 points:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/New40kChoosingArmyList1.jpg

So a unit has to bought their basic equipement. Heck, it is said in the model prices. It sais "Model without wargear". If a model comes with a basic gun that cost 0 points, you pay the cost of the model+0 points. If a model comes with a basic gun that cost 20 points, you pay the cost of the model+20 points.

EDIT: Already answered by Pete Foley.

**gungo**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Ronin_eX wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:

SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.

I beg to differ. Treason can make a character shoot, charge, and melee his own army! Now we just need to find a LD reducing ability...

The boon is also as good or better than the other two SW spells.

Welcome to Disagree, I suppose. Treason is fine, I'm just forever salty about Bolt of Change being absolute garbage in matched play.

This does kind of assume that Bolt of Change requires paying for the spawn. We don't yet know if that counts as "summoning". Given that we have only seen a short blurb in the words of the person that leaked it, you may want to hold off. Probably a bit early yet to start the doom/gloom engine. Especially with regard to JotWW which will usually do around what Smite can to most infantry units, but with a higher casting number and unlike smite, may still fail to do jack even after you succeed at casting it.

In AOS all abilities that add models to your army that did not start there, cost points. It is an assumption that is how things will work in 8th edition, I will cede that to you. However, I feel it is a safe assumption. Split, summoning, etc, all have been confirmed to cost points.

Unless like the tervigon the points are baked into the cost of the units. Its hard to tell with the spawn spell since its not exactly easy to spam or to get it to trigger.

**Dakkafang Dreggrim**

Ok tau, tyranids and orks are in the same book.

Where are the ork screen shots in english ?

=)

**docdoom77**

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Ok tau, tyranids and orks are in the same book.

Where are the ork screen shots in english ?

=)

I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.

**ClockworkZion**

docdoom77 wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Ok tau, tyranids and orks are in the same book.

Where are the ork screen shots in english ?

=)

I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.

We have Italian ones in this thread already of a few things.

**bobafett012**

Motograter wrote:
The tzeentch spell list. Is it confirmed its daemons only and if you have thousand sons you only get the base chaos powers?

And like seriously khàrn and berzerkerd any info at all?

there's stuff out there, haven't seen kharn but berzerkers have all but been spoiled. Look on faeit212 under the misc army rules for the new edition

**Brian888**

There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.

**docdoom77**

ClockworkZion wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Ok tau, tyranids and orks are in the same book.

Where are the ork screen shots in english ?

=)

I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.

We have Italian ones in this thread already of a few things.

As far as I know we have the Stompa and the Mega Warboss. I want to see boyz and trukks and bikes and weapons. We've gotten quite a few screenshots for other factions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imperial Knight leaks:

Spoiler:

**bobafett012**

Brian888 wrote:
There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.

Go read the blood angels Blood Boil power then, imo, its garbage and worse than smite. The other 2 powers are decent/good but its junk.

**Gordon Shumway**

Why would you need reserve points for the spawn. You aren't summoning it, you are turning the character into one. It looks like a neat power to me.

**Daedalus81**

Brian888 wrote:
There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.

Given that part of its mechanic involves characters i'd almost guarantee it.

**NivlacSupreme**

bobafett012 wrote:
Brian888 wrote:
There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.

Go read the blood angels Blood Boil power then, imo, its garbage and worse than smite. The other 2 powers are decent/good but its junk.

And it was so much fun in Space Hulk.

**ClockworkZion**

docdoom77 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Ok tau, tyranids and orks are in the same book.

Where are the ork screen shots in english ?

=)

I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.

We have Italian ones in this thread already of a few things.

As far as I know we have the Stompa and the Mega Warboss. I want to see boyz and trukks and bikes and weapons. We've gotten quite a few screenshots for other factions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imperial Knight leaks:

Spoiler:

Oh good, we don't need to pay for the feet.

320 base for a 24 wound model seems reasonable on paper. It'll be a while before I can really sit down and figure out what feels "right" for points though.

**Red Corsair**

bobafett012 wrote:
I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question

Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?

A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.

For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.

No, in the rules it says all models count as having a base weapon for combat. I think this is whats causing confusion, otherwise those charts make NO SENSE. I mean do you really think a hellblaster should be a point less then an intercessor?

**Gordon Shumway**

I really don't get the need to give datasheets for all the knight variants. They all have the same stats, just with different weapon options. Why not just one datasheet with all the different weapons options? What am I missing here?

**docdoom77**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
I really don't get the need to give datasheets for all the knight variants. They all have the same stats, just with different weapon options. Why not just one datasheet with all the different weapons options? What am I missing here?

For Power levels. No way to balance all those options at a single Power level, so they broke them down to give a better array of power levels.

**Cephalobeard**

Brian888 wrote:
There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.

It's possible, however for now it does seem like warm garbage.