Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=96624

Seems like WizKids is going to follow GW's lead and prevent their product from being sold through online retailers.  So who will be next in line?

Yes, people screamed when GW did this. But this is WizKids and nobody cares.

This news, in conjunction with the predictions from an industry veteran, makes me think the days of 'ye olde gaming hole' may be coming to an end...but at least now some manufacturers are paying attention. This is atually the next logical step for WizKids. In the past, WizKids has had promotional figures available for mail away and the only way to get these figures was to provide a reciept from a brick and mortar store.

While this move may be in the interestes of the B & M store, I strongly disagree with their move to change prize support for their games - prize support for HeroClix was free; prize support for HorrorClix had to be purchased by the store. Not all their changes have been for the best and I'm eager to see how this recent development will play out.

Ironically, this won't solve the main problem with Wizkids stuff being sold online, which is that, because of the collectible nature of the stuff, many online sellers of Mageknight/Heroclicks/MW packs are those that break up the packs and sell singles etc. at an inflated, rather than discounted, rate.

[EDIT]: For spelling. Yikes.

The real problem with what GW did was to say "support the B&M stores" while pursuing a policy to try to crush them.

GW is about as trustworthy as a politician. Insert an example of least favorite politico here.

ender502

I think that WizKids success will be entirely based upon how well they can support the B&M stores with this new policy - something GW did not do well at all. I think they will have a VERY tough time of it, but who knows, it might work for that market.

AJC

I'll be interested to see if THEIR sales tank like GW's. Unit sales just dropped after GW did it.

Posted By ender502 on 01/13/2007 7:32 AM

The real problem with what GW did was to say "support the B&M stores" while pursuing a policy to try to crush them.

GW is about as trustworthy as a politician. Insert an example of least favorite politico here.

ender502

I would, but there's no evidence of GW being part of the KKK.

Anywho, this is always a crap policy for companies and needs to stop. Here's hoping PP and Rackham don't ever go this way.

PP does it and they'll be done.....they cant afford to do it. Neither can Rackham.

I dont use wizkids for anything other than pirates.

Wizkids doesnt need internet retailers, they can already be found in places like target, walmart, etc.
They killed the B&M long ago when they decided to distribute through mass market.

Take Pirates of Davy Jones Curse set for the Pirates line. it was released about the same time as was the disnee movie. The set was hugley popular, with very close tie ins to the movie (davy jones, flying dutchman, sea monsters, etc) all without infringing on disnee IP.

The set was so popular, that it was gone withne two weeks of release. I worked at the local hobby town during that time and couldnt find a distributor that had it in stock.

But I could find it at target, wally world, etc easily.

Its stunts like that that can kill the B&M
(the guy who ran hobby town shortly went under after this stint. He reconed he lost nearly $2500 in monthly revenue because he couldnt keep his pirates stock in. Judging by the popularity of that game here, I have no doubt that he was being conservative with those figures.)

No. This stunt is to further hurt the B&M's even more. many B$M's sell online to help suppliment their income to keep the shop open. Banning online retailers nowadays since many really do supplement their income from the internet would be just as bad as banning the distribution to B&M's as well..

And if B&M's dont sell via the internet, then that is an outmoded way of thinking and will suffer because they wont delve into that sphere.

Eh... Doesn't affect me. I stopped playing Pirates when I got the impression that the game's simple and fun nature was getting crushed under the weight of all the expansions. Plus, they don't even make my favorite game of theirs anymore - Crimson Skies. Yeah, I know they axed it because it wasn't possible for them to make as much money on a game where you actually (gasp) knew what you got in each package, but the game itself was a lot of fun.

yeah crimson skies was great.

But the nice thing is, its not that hard to find everything for it. Its like a nice board game that could have had potential to go beyond that.

I also like the shadowrun figs.

Pirates it still a solid game, you dont have to buy everything that coems out, in fact, the most powerful stuff can still be found in the first three sets and are still in print. Unlike MTG.

At our local store, you can get the clicks out of the big box for a .25 to $1.00. I give the story down below it about the GW stock sale more attention. WK is around the same mode as those mutts that sell you the rolex's on the corner. Thier games blow and they don't support them enough, same story as someone else I know...

The real funny thing for them will be when they wonder what happened to themselves when thier company goes belly up. They are cutting thier own throat, spread themselves out and not specialized, then they stand around and wonder why thier in the unemployment line. The bad thing about the gaming industry is that it is becoming so familar a story that its not even newsworthy anymore. Our local Game stores and finally we as buyers are the ones that will truely suffer for this one.


Do you all wonder like I do if  Wizkids is using the same brains that they were selling in those click games for thier buisness decisions?

Well..... Wizkids is a red towel for our european B&M shops...... or another word for systems that will fail after some time.....

Posted By syr8766 on 01/13/2007 6:31 AM
Ironically, this won't solve the main problem with Wizkids stuff being sold online, which is that, because of the collectible nature of the stuff, many online sellers of Mageknight/Heroclicks/MW packs are these that brake up the packs and sell singles etc. at an inflated, rather than discounted, rate.

Sad but 100% true.  And here's another issue- how does Wizkids think they could ever, ever, ever, tell Walmart not to sell it online?

Wizkids is going away from the sealed booster format. They recently announced Mechwarrior is switching to a clear packaging system like the X-men Danger room, where you just buy 1 or 2 factions per package. The only reason folks needed to shop online was the need to get a case of a given set to have a chance at getting all the rares. This is no longer the case, thus I see less need to try and save 5$ off a faction expansion versus $100-$150 off a case.

This is no less slowed than what GW did, though at least WizKids isn't also simultaneously boning indy retailers. As people have already mentioned, their availability in Wal-Mart, Target, and similar stores is far more damaging to the LFGS than internet sales. That a company in this day and age would want to restrict or eliminate a major sales channel (ie: online sales) for their product just defies all reasoning. Especially when there are huge swathes of America that are not served by any independent retailers and whom have ethical reservations about shopping at Wal-mart. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

errrrr, I'm trying to figure out how this is similar to GW. Are you talking about trying to cut down on internet sales? or steamlineing distribution?

GW years and years ago went direct to stores, and streamlined their distribution to a dozen distributors in the US, (many more outside the US). Years later, GW tried to limit internet discounts, by not selling directly to a store discounting more than 20% off, and not allowing shopping carts using their logos, or pictures of product. They can't stop shops from taking phone orders for product at discount, stop someone from discounting if they don't get direct from GW, or stop someone in Canada from doing whatever they want.

Wizkids isn't going direct to stores. They are choosing to only sell to Diamond/Alliance distributing, rather than 12 different US distributors. A large percentage of independent stores already have accounts with Diamond (have to if they sell comics), or Alliance (largest gaming distributor with 3 warehouse around the country). Most stores have at least two distributors, and some use many more, as it makes it a lot easier to find the games you need to order.

Note that this move is contrary to the predictions of Mr. Dancy. Rather than abandoning the hobby market, WK are pretty much cementing themselves into it.

As to them wanting to limit internet discounting, they have had a policy for several years that they wanted distributors to only sell to B and M stores, and not to internet only stores. They recognize that they need stores to sell their product, and that supporting those stores is in their best interests. Part of this business move is to make sure they have better control over where their product is sold. It won't eliminate sales on the internet, but it will limit the heavy discounting.

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 01/13/2007 2:42 PM
Sad but 100% true.  And here's another issue- how does Wizkids think they could ever, ever, ever, tell Walmart not to sell it online?

They could decide to not sell to Walmart. There are more and more stories about manufacturers that are doing just that.

well simply speaking about alliance there service is terrible delay after delay they lie driectly to their customers ask them about p3 paint sets from pp and youll gte a miriad of exscuses why they dont have any...

doesnt bother me personally i dont carry anything wiz kids in my stores anymore not after they denied me prize support last year...new store applied as normal said no.. so f em...

im getting my own distributorship for pp so i wont need to worry about wizkids low end poorly made and poorly painted junk... gee can you tell i dont like them ???

 

and i dont order anything from alliance...so sppppppppp to all of them

 

and as far as gw goes they are creating a graphics pack for retailers to sell online once they clear everything with legal so what does that tell you????

methinks they have seen the error of their ways

 

just my op

Posted By The Drop Zone on 01/13/2007 8:57 PM

and as far as gw goes they are creating a graphics pack for retailers to sell online once they clear everything with legal so what does that tell you????

methinks they have seen the error of their ways

 

just my op

Its off topic, but very interesting.

yeah, last year after wizkids couldnt or wouldnt dole out prize support for the B&M's many just dropped them altogether for tournament purposes. Its a shame, because if the games they made were mere fad games, they sold well here. They would have sold better with proper (or any) prize support.

I remember many a night that I gave away five masted and super rare ships from my collection for prize support. As a former envoy for wizkids, I have never once seen them send me anything for prize support, even to the convention venues that I attended and ran the games for them.

Why should I support a game that doesnt atleast attempt to support me?

But this is all rather pointless, as their prize support all went down hill after they sold out to Topps in the height of the mechwarrior craze a few years ago. So really there is no reason for me to be suprised.

But back to the topic at hand.

I seriously doubt that WK is releasing product solely to diamond/alliance. I say this because WK products are found by the droves in mass market stores. I could be wrong, as I am not privy to wallyworld or targets distributor info. Alliance may very well distribute to mass market chains (which would explain alot).

Posted By Breotan on 01/12/2007 11:43 PM
Yes, people screamed when GW did this. But this is WizKids and nobody cares.

word

Posted By The Drop Zone on 01/13/2007 8:57 PM

well simply speaking about alliance there service is terrible delay after delay they lie driectly to their customers ask them about p3 paint sets from pp and youll gte a miriad of exscuses why they dont have any...

I get very, very good service from Alliance, and they offer a better selection of product than most distributers. Same day shipping, I almost always have stuff arrive the next day after I order.

As to the P3 paints, all 3 distributors that I order from were out immediately. The reason? They sold as many as they ordered, and ran out, what did you think happened? Many retailers, myself included, didn't order a huge amount, we waited to see how they sold. After selling out, we went back for bigger orders, and the distributors ran out. Then  it was time to wait for PP to ship more out. Simple as that.

if i was to go into the lies they told me... which i wont, i had to contact privateer directly to inquire about the p3 paint kits and was told directly that alliance was not telling the truth... now who would you believe after that?

i guess if you buy 1000's from them all the time you get better service but here in my neck of the woods service is crap 11 days since they returned a phone call you think ill spend money with them ever again no way.....i have another source better service same day shipping and they return phone calls in 30 minutes or less

told directly that alliance was not telling the truth...

You mean, PP told you something that contradicticted what someone at Alliance told you. Or are saying PP actually said "Alliance is deliberately lieing",  to you?There have been dozens of times when what a manufacturer tells me differs from what a sales rep tells me, and neither one is lying, or trying to lie.

You seem to be trying to run a business. Time to find out how game distributors work. Someone in PP knows what's going on, that might even be the person that talks to someone at Alliance, but probably not. The buyer at Alliance talks to the head sales rep, who talks to your sales rep, who talks to you. Information flows down the line, and might take a couple of weeks. And it gets to you in less than pristine fashion. Most reps do their best to answer quesions, but they don't have all the answers. Things can also change at PP, and it takes time to get to your sales rep in even a diluted fashion. You rep isn't deliberately trying to lie to you, why the hell would he?

The best way to have gotten in a supply of P3 paints, was to place a pre order. No one that I have talked to got shorted on pre orders. Lots of people that didn't preorder had to wait a while for additional stock to come in. Did you order your P3 paintrack yet? Running out of the paint sets showed me I had customers that want the product, so I made sure I was down for one of the racks.

a few things
i called alliance asked for p3 paint kits .. was told directly from my rep at alliance they were onyl made in limited supply at the con we dont have any and cant gte anymore end of statement

i then emailed pp and told them the response from alliance they responded that that statement was totally untrue.. now what do you call an untruth a lie simple as that

i hope you have great luck with alliance i havent i have had the worst service imaginable and i wont deal with them ever again

i deal with pp upper deck gw i did whiz kids not anymore or went through a distrib for them

thats just my experience

You maybe could have done some research, something as simple as reading PP's boards. Alliance also has a monthly catalog that listed when P3 paints were coming out, and has instructions for retailers on how to place preorders. It's free to retailers, just ask for it.

PP has long had the habit of releasing small amounts of product at conventions to create a buzz before doing the general release of the products. People had Hoardes starter boxes and P3 paints months before they actually got to distributors, and stores could get them. It was only a small amount, but did cause many customers to call and ask stores for them, thinking that they were out. You might have misunderstood your rep, or they misunderstood you. Miscommunication happens, that's a bit different than purposeful mistruth.

A distributor has no reason to lie to you on something like that. They make money selling things. Not selling to you is counter preductive. Your sales rep has even less reason to lie. They gain nothing from it, and it has the potential to get them fired if they actually are caught doing it.

Going OT here, but I never had a problem with Alliance (Southwest) with my store. My sales rep was great and even dug through some old warehoused stuff to find some OOP special orders for me. That, plus quick turnaround for orders (even on Magic boxes in short supply) made me love 'em. In fact, I liked them for many of the same reasons I disliked GW's direct sales (slow order turnaround, inflexibility, etc.)....

Back OT So do we even know what WK is really doing? Does anybody even care?