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 Ketara wrote:
Yay. More fellowship models. Just what the range needs, Gandalf #8. My shelf felt so bare without another one...

Seriously, they could have done plastic Denethor, Gamling, Kardush, or a host of other characters which could use a plastic. What's next, Aragorn #11? Bit annoyed they're wasting valuable limited HIPS time on characters with multiple models out already in metal, finecast, and plastic.

At first i was of the same opinion as you but after seeing the new Theoden in person I really want them to redo all the character sculpts in plastic. The difference in technology is so big. It was one of the only things that had me hesitant for a moment. I love the LOTR sculpts but the plastic units like morannon orcs, etc... are so...after buying the new plastic GW stuff, the quality drop is noticable.

You can compare it inside the LOTR range. Just compare normal dwarf warriors with Erebor warriors.

My only reluctance is that the plastic Theoden doesn't appear to look as much like Bernard as the original, or is that just a paint issue?

 Azreal13 wrote:
My only reluctance is that the plastic Theoden doesn't appear to look as much like Bernard as the original, or is that just a paint issue?

Hmm... after looking for images:



I would say, painted like this, at least this looks more like him.
But also, the new plastic version, is very similar to the actor. I can confirm than the oficial paint job "blends" his facial features.

Swan Knights of Dol Amroth on foot are up for preorder!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/21/the-ship-and-the-silver-swan-knights-of-dol-amroth/

 judgedoug wrote:
Swan Knights of Dol Amroth on foot are up for preorder!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/21/the-ship-and-the-silver-swan-knights-of-dol-amroth/

£32 for six models that don't even look that good? Bloody hell.

Look very good. I'll be picking up 6 initially as I need some dismounts. I'll be picking up a couple of warbands in the near future.

 blood reaper wrote:
models[/i] that don't even look that good? Bloody hell.

Yikes, well, proof that opinions can be both subjectively and objectively wrong.

Ive been waiting so long for these... but $50 for 6? Feelsyikesman

Thats why I wasn't that confortable with the idea of FW taking over LOTR... is not like GW prices are cheap... but this is even worse.

And no 3-rd party discount possibility.

 Galas wrote:
Thats why I wasn't that confortable with the idea of FW taking over LOTR... is not like GW prices are cheap... but this is even worse.

And no 3-rd party discount possibility.

Now imagine the pain I feel being a WOTR player primarily...If I want a full strength Formation of these guys it'll run me $400. And preferably I wanted my army to have 6 formations of them. Soooo im boned.

Yeah I can even justify their cost in LOTR, being a skirmish game, but WOTR... impossible.

Yep, that price is a killer. Shame cause they're great models and I much prefer them to the old ones, they seem to be better proportioned. I can tolerate FW prices for character models and the like, but if this is the precedent for 'infantry' type units then I really hope none of my true favourite ground-pounders get done cause I'll never be able to afford them. Obviously compared to some of the Hobbit characters they're better value, but given these are infantry I'd be buying more than the one set. Like I say, I can stomach a one-off hit on a character.

This really has me torn. I really do like the models. *sigh*

Funny how I hesitate on the price now but I spent quite a bit more $/model on custom squads.

A shame, maybe when I get a big paycheck.

Edit: Gotta give props to FW for alternative heads and shields, however.

The models look great but are pretty pricey! It would be cheaper to buy the mounted guys, steal their heads and shields and add them to a regular gondorian I think...

I ordered some, but I'm also used to the price of Finecast.

I bought Gundabad, Lake-town Guard, Lake-town Militia, and Mirkwood Infantry when they were packed 3 for $25 in Finecast.

So 6 for $50 in real resin with lots of customization options wasn't so hard.

The good news is that these are even cheaper than second-hand foot knights of Dol Amroth who routinely sell for $30 for a pack of 3. Hopefully it'll reduce the value of the old sculpts in the secondary market. But these new models are superior in every way (helmets, cough)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Thats why I wasn't that confortable with the idea of FW taking over LOTR

That's not accurate. the Middle-earth team is separate from Forge World Specialist Games; GW proper handles most of the game while FW will release limited stuff. ie, the new plastic character series, normal infantry boxes and commanders, books, etc, is all normal GW.

Thats good to ear Judgedoug! Thanks for the information.

I'm just gonna play normal LOTR so to buy a couple of expensive units (Like Black Guard of Mordor) is not a problem for me , but I can absolutely understand the problem of people that still plays WOTR and wants to make FW armies.

But at the same time it is not that much different from playing 40k FW armies...

Well if I can come up with $3600 Ill have all the Knights I desire

 judgedoug wrote:


That's not accurate. the Middle-earth team is separate from Forge World Specialist Games; GW proper handles most of the game while FW will release limited stuff. ie, the new plastic character series, normal infantry boxes and commanders, books, etc, is all normal GW.

Actually yes it is.

The middle earth team and middle earth game are under forge world specialist games. It's why fw Facebook page posts about all the middle earth stuff cos it's their game just like blood bowl and necromunda etc. A lot of the plastic kits already existed which is why they've not been redone. The plastic characters are easy enough for gw to do while fw concentrates on book stuff and units gw main no longer produce ie swan knights on foot

 Motograter wrote:
The middle earth team and middle earth game are under forge world specialist games.

Nope; Specialist Games is a specific division of Forge World devoted to specialist games - AT, Necro, BB, etc. The Middle-earth team is a separate team outside of the Specialist Games team. This has been stated a multitude of times.

Duncan's Dol Amroth army is featured in today's Middle-earth community article

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/26/26th-sept-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-duncans-knights-of-dol-amrothgw-homepage-post-3/

Imrahil is a great candidate for one of those fancy new plastic re sculpts....

Certainly the foot version at l east. He looks like what happened when you put the old metal mounted heroes straight into a slotta base instead of a horse. Battle Games in Middle-Earth had this fun way of using heroes before you had a horse for them by simply sticking them into a base - as the mounted metal versions often came with slotta rods attached to their feet. They looked ridiculous, and Imrahil on foot has that same look. I never much liked the old Swan Knights, the new ones are such an improvement. I'm still just so put-off by the price.

The actual army itself is a beauty, though. I'm not surprised given who painted it, but I love seeing a nice cohesive yet diverse army.

chinacasters can go to hell. The game may have gotten a breath of life and some new resurgence, but it's still going to suffer if people act like that.

Maybe the problem is with GW setting pants on head crazy prices for some stuff instead? I mean, I don't envision many people going for a chinacaster for the stuff from the Pellenor box, after all.

Well people have got three options then.

1) Save up for the item they want like most normal people
2) Convert
3) Use third parties that aren't criminals. This obviously comes with the caveat that you may not be able to use them for tournaments, if you participate in such things. But that's entirely up to the individual in question.

Edit* I don't usually agree too much with Tneva up there, but he is quite correct with what he says.

Some strong opinions there, interesting that they are both from the euro zone

I wonder if their opinion hold true for copying music, dvds, video games, non genuine car parts, generic medicine, branded clothing etc.

Personally I have never bought any chinacast but I would rather give them my money than forgeworld with their pricing policies.

You shouldn't support illegal practice. Competitors, yes, absolutely. But supporting criminals only reflects poorly on you and drives legitimate businesses away.

 MangoMadness wrote:
Some strong opinions there, interesting that they are both from the euro zone

I wonder if their opinion hold true for copying music, dvds, video games, non genuine car parts, generic medicine, branded clothing etc.

Personally I have never bought any chinacast but I would rather give them my money than forgeworld with their pricing policies.

My personal opinion holds to all of those. One of my biggest concerns is that you have no idea how that money you're giving to counterfeiters is spent. These are criminals after all so you have no idea how and where that money is ending up and being used.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Some strong opinions there, interesting that they are both from the euro zone

I wonder if their opinion hold true for copying music, dvds, video games, non genuine car parts, generic medicine, branded clothing etc.

Personally I have never bought any chinacast but I would rather give them my money than forgeworld with their pricing policies.

My personal opinion holds to all of those. One of my biggest concerns is that you have no idea how that money you're giving to counterfeiters is spent. These are criminals after all so you have no idea how and where that money is ending up and being used.

Criminals in the UK. Not in China. Over there, they're more or less legit businesspeople. Thery pay taxes and everything.That said, whilst not as averse to recasts as Inquisitor up there, I wouldn't buy LOTR casts at this stage. The game is too small; and if we want to see more kits, GW need to show the highest possible profit. It would be self-defeating and short termist.

Either way though, the morality of recasting is something that's been hashed out a million times on the site, and this thread probably shouldn't be derailed by it.

tneva82 wrote:
You know why? Because plastic is actually suitable for mass cheap product. Resin is not. At resin you can't do cheap mass product so you have to price them and then on that margin no legit company CAN fight recaster on price point AND be profitable. Recaster has none of the expenses legit company actually has to pay. It's 100% impossible to match recaster price AND be profitable. How you are supposed to pay warehouses, customer service, miniature design etc etc etc?

Recasters certainly don't have the expenses that legit companies do. But at the same time, other legit companies do indeed have the same costs GW/FW does, and a lot of other companies seem to be able to price 6 "historics scaled" resin troop minis at less than 40 euros. Or they simply use metals. Ther is no need to go for recasters, either, to see how FW prices compare.

With plastic it's bit different as material and automated casting process makes spinning 100,000 sprues for basically free in material and personel expense. Price comes with moulds and casting machine neither which recaster can afford(and it would be hard for recaster to sell in scale needed to justify the fixed fees requires to set up plastic casting).

Yes, thank you, I didn't know that . Funny how that is still true for plastic characters and the still manage to do those and put even insanier prices to those. Plus, given how resin mould work, there is also a fixed cost to those that can't be avoided even if you're not casting an original mini.

And yes FW prices are high. Tough. They aren't essential to your life. If you can't afford it buy something else. I would love to own warlord titan but too high price. So what? I'm not addicted to miniatures so badly I need to own every single model in the world.

So don't buy. It's what I'm going to do in this and any other case I feel the price is not worth it.

I'm just saying that there is a reason why there's a cottage industry that caters to people not willing to pay those prices, be it legitimate companies that do alternate minis (the best choice), resellers (also good) or recasters (the obviously worst choice).

I'm currently buying Oathmark minis myself to use for LotR, and they are great, and give me plenty fodder for conversion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Some strong opinions there, interesting that they are both from the euro zone

I wonder if their opinion hold true for copying music, dvds, video games, non genuine car parts, generic medicine, branded clothing etc.

Personally I have never bought any chinacast but I would rather give them my money than forgeworld with their pricing policies.

I don't support recasters, nor pirate anything if I can get it legally, actually. My Steam and DrivethruRPG libraries are of a size that it's kinda stupid xD. I do buy alternate minis for a lot of stuff from legitimate companies, though, or stuff not meant to be alternate that I use for other purposes.