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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





MilkmanAl wrote:
Jan your advice is terrible. In my meta only commander spam lists work. I have every other Tau model at this point and it's been born out in the data that the Tau are near toothless outside of commander spam. You have to be playing in the worlds softest meta or something.
It's apparently a meta that has historically supported Pathfinders as a strong offensive unit, if that tells you anything.

I'm with you on the Commander spam meta. I've had some reasonable success with a few of our more viable units (Y'Vahras, Fire Warriors, flamer suits, etc.), but I can't say that I've run up against any of the current tournament standards like dedicated conscript spam of massed Stormravens. I'm willing to bet I'd stand a chance against them without strict Commander spam, but it's still a very 7th Tyranids type book so far. There aren't many units I'd even consider using. Here's hoping October is kind to us.

It tells me a lot... that is is super fluffy and soft.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Gamgee wrote:
Jan your advice is terrible. In my meta only commander spam lists work. I have every other Tau model at this point and it's been born out in the data that the Tau are near toothless outside of commander spam. You have to be playing in the worlds softest meta or something.

Considering we know for a fact the Tau are being looked into from frontlinegaming (Riptide in particular) I have to dismiss your advice as laughable. Your not saying anything good Tau players haven't been trying since 8th edition Tau leaks. If even GW and Reece from frontline know they are crap your being pretty delusional. If it wasn't for how obviously bad Tau are posts like yours would be terribly unhelpful in balancing the Tau.


If I had a dollar...

Anywho, I've faced the Commander spam. It's good. I don't use it, but I do recommend it as an effective way to play.

If your advice is limited to "Commander spam or bust", however... Then I guess it is what it is?

My advice might span a bit more territory. And you're free to ignore every bit of it at your leisure. Of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MilkmanAl wrote:

It's apparently a meta that has historically supported Pathfinders as a strong offensive unit, if that tells you anything.
.


Under-explaining things is a good way to look as if you don't speak in good faith, MilkmanAI. I've provided video battle reports, written ones as well as lists and explanations on its use on this forum and you really aren't giving him the right impression. Clearly the list included more than Pathfinders. You should be more fair minded.

Units don't exist in a vacuum and that was my central point. As an example, the Pathfinders were quite potent offensively. Rules changes and later ITC/FAQ decisions did eventually change the effectiveness of what I was doing (the 6th edition removal of assault from reserve and then the 7th edition nerf on grenades most specifically) but it was very effective for 5th, and for a while in 6th Edition. I didn't do it as much in 7th. So you're citing REALLY old datum to make a point, which to be fair...isn't very fair minded at all. To make matters worse, you're ignoring the reality of what I accomplished using them offensively, which was a lot.

The important thing is that looking at things in a vacuum or in their minimalist form is a mistake. You apparently disagree... or... you're just sniping for no good reason. I can't tell which.

I can provide the list I am currently using if you like. It's one way to skin a cat. There are other ways to skin a cat. As I frequently am forced to point out, if you can get 46 pages into a thread and your only conclusion is "Commander spam or bust" then why keep reading the thread? Lol. That seems like a colossal waste of time. Just saying. if you want to gain something from the thread, then you're going to have to be more open minded to different ideas. I'm not asking you to do everything I tell you works. I'm just telling you not to knock everything you DON'T do. Lol.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/20 08:55:23


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Made in de
Been Around the Block




Dortmund, Germany

7-Zark-7 wrote:
 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.


1. May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?
No. It is a fortification with a transport capacity. See the embarked models rules.
BrB page 183

2. Can the units "embarked" on the Shieldline be attacked or does the line have to be attacked first (in shooting pahse and cc)
Models embarked are not actually placed on the battlefield and thus cannot be attacked. Models embarked on the Shieldline use the 'open-topped' shooting rules in the Shieldline Abilities section.
BrB page 183, Index Xenos 2 page 76


3. Can units on a shieldline and other friendly units (that are somewhere else), shoot at a unit that is in CC with the shieldline?
No and Yes. If there are enemy units within 1 inch of the Shieldline the models embarked on the Shieldline cannot shoot except with pistols. Other friendly units can shoot the attacking models though.
Index Xenos 2 page 77: Abilities section > Fortification & Open Topped

4. Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"? If not, where can it be deployed?
I assume you mean the Tactical Support Turret. No. The Strike Team models are not placed on the battlefield thus cannot fulfill the requirements to deploy the turret. Rules as of now make this fortification a fancy transport. That begs the question.... can an already 10 model strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if it includes a turret that would make it 11 models?
Index Xenos 2 pages 57 and 76.

5. How long does a Missle Pod last? When is it removed?
There is no duration limit. It is stationary once deployed and removed when a model from the unit moves out of coherency with it.
Index Xenos 2 page 57

6. When a unit has been attacked by two different units in CC, can it hit back both or has it to split attacks between those units (assuming the unit hitting back has only 1 weapon: friewarrior)
Split the attacks.
BrB page 182: section 3 Choose Targets

7-Zark-7


Thank you very much!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





7-Zark-7 wrote:

4. Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"? If not, where can it be deployed?
I assume you mean the Tactical Support Turret. No. The Strike Team models are not placed on the battlefield thus cannot fulfill the requirements to deploy the turret. Rules as of now make this fortification a fancy transport. That begs the question.... can an already 10 model strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if it includes a turret that would make it 11 models?
Index Xenos 2 pages 57 and 76.

Can't move the Turret for any reason, Embarking is considered a form of movement.

As you also said, can't place it in coherency while inside.


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
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 Talamare wrote:
7-Zark-7 wrote:

4. Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"? If not, where can it be deployed?
I assume you mean the Tactical Support Turret. No. The Strike Team models are not placed on the battlefield thus cannot fulfill the requirements to deploy the turret. Rules as of now make this fortification a fancy transport. That begs the question.... can an already 10 model strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if it includes a turret that would make it 11 models?
Index Xenos 2 pages 57 and 76.

Can't move the Turret for any reason, Embarking is considered a form of movement.

As you also said, can't place it in coherency while inside.



Agreed, and still does not answer the question, can a 10 FW strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if they include a turret? Remember, the unit can start the game embarked.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/20 17:13:36


 
   
Made in gb
Fluttering Firewyrm of Tzeentch




England

Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered in the thread before!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/21 11:05:02


 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

 ke3f wrote:
Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered before in the thread before!


I tried two units of 10 in a recent 1000pts tournament to see how it could work played as a horde. They did absolutely nothing all 4 games. I'm scraping them out completely to replace them with 10 men Pathfinders units with just markerlights for the same price.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




You definitely have to look at Tau as a whole and not individual units. Crisis teams are expensive by themselves for what they do, but take 3 suits with 2x Cyclic Ion and ATS, a CIB/ATS commander, a stealthsuit team with 1 guy with a drone controller, throw gun drones and a couple shield drones all over those units, add in a cheap gun drone squad, and a fireblade and things start to hurt.

The fireblade still hits with his markerlight on a 3+ after moving, you only really need 1 markerlight on the thing you want to die so if your pathfinders die you still have some. Move that force up and you've got 8 point drones hitting on 4+ getting 6 shots each at 9" range along with suits that are hard to kill who can dish out lots of anti infantry shots or some overcharged anti medium things shots.

Even if you're moving faster than a Fireblade can go a stealth team with a drone controller leading a full squad of gun drones can put out a lot of hurt for a reasonable price.
   
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I have a quick question about pathfinders and the drone added to the unit.

I know the drone need to be deployed when the pathfinder unit is, but do the drones move with the pathfinder unit at the beginning of the first turn with them?

My first guess is no since after they are deployed, the 2 drones count as separate units.

Thanks for the information.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




 Haechi wrote:
 ke3f wrote:
Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered before in the thread before!


I tried two units of 10 in a recent 1000pts tournament to see how it could work played as a horde. They did absolutely nothing all 4 games. I'm scraping them out completely to replace them with 10 men Pathfinders units with just markerlights for the same price.



Fire Warriors are definitely still a supporting unit. I'm experimenting with Breachers but I'm pretty convinced that it's either Pulse Rifles or bust. Rifle Fire Warriors can sit on objectives and toss 3 shots at 15" with a Fireblade nearby. Not super strong but if you need to fill out some Troops with a cheap HQ for Detachments they still have a role but they aren't going to win you games. I'm still not sure if Breachers in a Fish are any good, but they might be. If you aren't going to do that and don't need to fill Troops slots then just take pathfinders, I still proxy a lot of Carbine FWs as Pathfinders for that.

Pathfinders can also take Rail Rifles, which aren't too bad. Good range, d3 damage, AP -4. You need some ablative wounds to back them up but you're allowed to shoot some markerlights first and use them with the same squad. 2 5-man Pathfinder teams with 3 rail rifles, 2 MLs, and a 6-8 model unit of shield drones covering them isn't too bad. The 2 markerlights will likely score 1 hit and then you send in the rail rifles. You also always have the option of sending those drones to protect something more important like crisis suits if you need to. That picks you up 3 FA slots toward filling up an outrider detachment.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/21 19:39:21


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





cmspano wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 ke3f wrote:
Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered before in the thread before!


I tried two units of 10 in a recent 1000pts tournament to see how it could work played as a horde. They did absolutely nothing all 4 games. I'm scraping them out completely to replace them with 10 men Pathfinders units with just markerlights for the same price.



Fire Warriors are definitely still a supporting unit. I'm experimenting with Breachers but I'm pretty convinced that it's either Pulse Rifles or bust. Rifle Fire Warriors can sit on objectives and toss 3 shots at 15" with a Fireblade nearby. Not super strong but if you need to fill out some Troops with a cheap HQ for Detachments they still have a role but they aren't going to win you games. I'm still not sure if Breachers in a Fish are any good, but they might be. If you aren't going to do that and don't need to fill Troops slots then just take pathfinders, I still proxy a lot of Carbine FWs as Pathfinders for that.

Pathfinders can also take Rail Rifles, which aren't too bad. Good range, d3 damage, AP -4. You need some ablative wounds to back them up but you're allowed to shoot some markerlights first and use them with the same squad. 2 5-man Pathfinder teams with 3 rail rifles, 2 MLs, and a 6-8 model unit of shield drones covering them isn't too bad. The 2 markerlights will likely score 1 hit and then you send in the rail rifles. You also always have the option of sending those drones to protect something more important like crisis suits if you need to. That picks you up 3 FA slots toward filling up an outrider detachment.


One concept I have heard thrown around that I am considering trying is having a bunch of devilfish each filled with 5 breachers, 5 pathfinders with ion/rail rifles plus recon drone and 2 other drones. Terrible from the killpoint perspective but potentially effective as you shield the pathfinders with drones and shotguns while letting you rapid fire range stuff with the pathfinders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/21 19:54:06


 
   
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Rockfish wrote:


One concept I have heard thrown around that I am considering trying is having a bunch of devilfish each filled with 5 breachers, 5 pathfinders with ion/rail rifles plus recon drone and 2 other drones. Terrible from the killpoint perspective but potentially effective as you shield the pathfinders with drones and shotguns while letting you rapid fire range stuff with the pathfinders.


I tried 10 Breachers with a Guardian Drone and Darkstrider in a fish the other day. Conceptually it's not a bad idea and I'm going to keep trying it but it didn't work well this game. I rolled crap for it, and I only had one such unit. The idea is a threat to rhinos rushing you. Darkstrider drops it to T6 and the Breachers now wound on 4+ with AP -2. It can soften up something tough so you can dedicate less firepower to pop it. It's more firepower than tau infantry can generally bring.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

@Jancoran: I'd be very curious to see a list that's working for you, especially if it isn't Commander spam. I've been trying to think of ways to make a decent Tau list with my current collection of models, but far too often I find myself wishing I had more Commanders (I've only got 1 plus some regular Crisis suits that could get a "battlefield promotion"). I like your offbeat Tau tactics and lists that work for you, so keep on sharing it even if some others (not naming any names...) are too stubborn to listen.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 ke3f wrote:
Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered in the thread before!


I play mine vanilla, with a Cadre Fireblade nearby to make them beasts. I also do like the usage of the Smart Missiles. A little spendy but very useful, as enemy infantry are like cockroaches when they get into cover. Lol.
   
Made in us
Reliable Krootox






 Jancoran wrote:
I think that calculations in a vacuum are okay but the REAL comparisons need to be made WITH all that support in mind and then compared to its cost. Because what is POSSIBLE with our weaponry is the thing. Not what it does unsupported and so on.
This is often one of the hardest things to try to grasp and convey in a setting like a Forum, where pure numbers can look really sexy. It also can be difficult to get a real "feel" for tactics and strategies that fit your playstyle and taste. That's why solely analyzing math can be a trap, and sometimes prevent you from playing to your potential. It's not always about damage outputs and durability (but those are great and do need to be understood), but things like tactical flexibility and unit synergy that can be difficult to quantify.
Rockfish wrote:
Simply put, why get X when I could just get a commander and a bunch of drones?
I would have to go with: "Because that's boring, and I'm not going out to buy and slave over 5 more Commanders just to have 'the next big thing' arrive when the Codex drops.". Rumor mill has the Codex coming early next year, right? I can wait 4-6 months. Heck, even then I'll still not want to rush out and buy 50+ hours of painting commitment to run the same list as everyone else.
 Gamgee wrote:
Jan your advice is terrible. In my meta only commander spam lists work. I have every other Tau model at this point and it's been born out in the data that the Tau are near toothless outside of commander spam.
Then we might as well lock this thread, or move on to another topic. Either way, leading off with a comment like that, just makes you opinions less noteworthy.
Rockfish wrote:
I do feel that GW is responding appropriately with the codexs released so far, but it is gonna be a long wait for some factions. I personally do not want to go and buy a bunch of units to be viable now when the units to spam is goofy stuff like commanders, which we already know that they are gonna be nerfed in a FAQ.
Seconded. My game plan is to focus on the other units that have been doing well for me, and getting my painted units more well rounded after 7th. I have plenty of the things that were good or fun in 7th, that are going to see much less play in 8th. Time to dust off the 'pile of shame', and start painting to flesh out my army as a whole. I agree with your sentiment that GW has been doing much better their releases so far, and I am also optimistic for future releases.
 ke3f wrote:
Hi all, I'm getting back into 40k playing Tau after a couple of years off and was wondering how people were running their FW's (type / squad size / number of squads) and how they were playing them in game. Apologies if this has been covered in the thread before!
I have been running minimum sized units, and that's worked out well for me. It makes Morale less of a problem, and I haven't had issues keeping the units within the range of Auras buffs. I think a Fireblade is too good to pass up with his 'Volley Fire' Aura, and is a solid Markerlight source for that important first hit. Smaller squads can be helpful when your opponent has an Assault heavy list, as it can force them to multiassault into 2 or more units, and that can often be to your advantage. It could be that they just missappropriate their attacks (overkilling one squad, but barely touching the other), but it also makes them rely more on chance even if they make the right call. If the dice break poorly/well in one squad that's good for you either way. If they roll garbage on attack, you keep a small squad (or most of it). If they roll hot, then the damage is mitigated to just the smaller squad. Granted, it's a trivial advantage, but it's fun when it highlights someones cold dice rolling. In my area we have the luxury of most events using a PL based system for Kill Points, and that has been very healthy for smaller sized units VS traditional 1KP per unit, so I am also biased there.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Plainshow wrote:

Rockfish wrote:
Simply put, why get X when I could just get a commander and a bunch of drones?
I would have to go with: "Because that's boring, and I'm not going out to buy and slave over 5 more Commanders just to have 'the next big thing' arrive when the Codex drops.". Rumor mill has the Codex coming early next year, right? I can wait 4-6 months. Heck, even then I'll still not want to rush out and buy 50+ hours of painting commitment to run the same list as everyone else.


You don't need to buy commanders, just buy regular crisis suits or use the crisis suits you already have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/21 20:57:29


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I personally am not really planning on buying anything new until the codex and was just gonna finish off what I have and do lists that have some degree of fun to them.
   
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Olympia, WA

 ZergSmasher wrote:
@Jancoran: I'd be very curious to see a list that's working for you, especially if it isn't Commander spam. I've been trying to think of ways to make a decent Tau list with my current collection of models, but far too often I find myself wishing I had more Commanders (I've only got 1 plus some regular Crisis suits that could get a "battlefield promotion"). I like your offbeat Tau tactics and lists that work for you, so keep on sharing it even if some others (not naming any names...) are too stubborn to listen.


Sure. I will give you the 2K list I normally use at the moment. I'll explain if anyone has a question. if not then...hey!.

Tau Arctic Corps Fortification Network Formation
7 (139pts)Tidewall Gunrig
7 (139pts)Tidewall Gunrig
7 (139pts)Tidewall Gunrig
= 417

Tau Arctic Corps Expeditionary Brigade
Heavy Support
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
= 162
Elites
2 (31pts) Kroot Shaper
1 (24pts) Firesight Markmen (Markerlight)
1 (24pts) Firesight Markmen (Markerlight)
= 79
Fast Attack
6 (137pts)10 Pathfinders (3 Rail Rifles, 7 Carbine+Markerlights)
6 (137pts)10 Pathfinders (3 Rail Rifles, 7 Carbine + Markerlights)
6 (100pts)10 Marker Drones
3 (48pts) 12 Kroot Hounds
3 (48pts) 12 Kroot Hounds
= 470
Troops
6 (60pts) 10 Kroot Carnivores
3 (40pts) 5 Fire Warriors
3 (40pts) 5 Fire Warriors
3 (40pts) 5 Fire Warriors
5 (48pts) 6 Fire Warriors
5 (48pts) 6 Fire Warriors
=276
HQ
4 (75pts) Aun’Va of the Undying Spirit
2 (42pts) Cadre Fireblade (Rifle+Markerlight)
2 (42pts) Cadre Fireblade (Rifle+Markerlight)
=159
Tau Arctic Corps Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
22 (437pts) StormSurge (2 Airburst Frag Launchers, Cluster Rockets, 4 Destroyer Missiles, Pulse Blast Cannon, 2 Smart Missiles, Shield Generator, Advanced Targeting Systems, Drone Controller)

Total Points: 2000
Total Power: 113
Total Models: 112
Deployment Drops: 21-24

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/21 21:36:28


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

That's an interesting list. Lots of chaff-type units that can tie bigger stuff up while the gunrigs and Stormsurge do most of the hard work. Plenty of Markerlights to help said Stormsurge, plus the Fire Warriors and Fireblades can put out a scary number of shots. And not a Commander in sight. If this is working well for you, color me impressed! I'm not sure it would work that well in my hyper-competitive meta, but it sure would be fun! What wouldn't be fun would be coming up with 24 Kroot Hounds...

It's nice to see people succeeding without having to resort to using the popular netlists. And this is true in any game, be it 40k or Warmachine or even CCG's like Magic: The Gathering. I've been trying to get creative with my own collection, but I have yet to even try out my Tau in 8th. They were my strongest army in 7th, netting me a 2nd place finish in a tournament that included some of my super-competitive friends. And I didn't have to take a Riptide wing (7th's strongest Tau build) to do it.

Maybe I'll post a list or two of my own either here or in the Army List subforum and see what people think, although I tend to take a lot of "internet wisdom" with a healthy dose of . I definitely like the Brigade detachment for Tau, as those extra CP's can give a lot of critical rerolls for some of the one-off weapons (like D-missiles).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 ZergSmasher wrote:

If this is working well for you, color me impressed! I'm not sure it would work that well in my hyper-competitive meta, but it sure would be fun! What wouldn't be fun would be coming up with 24 Kroot Hounds...


Here are the qualifications I can give you for my Meta. It comes up a lot so what the hell. Maybe this can put it to sleep once and for all.

I was top 3% in the ITC last year (5575 generals competed last year). I attended the Bay Area Open, 3 GT's and 10 normal tournaments plus four more that were not ITC sanctioned events (of which i won two of those but they are not included in my ITC standing).

And since I get REAL tired of hearing about my Meta being soft (hilarious) here's the list of people I regularly went to tournaments against and with. These are just the ones I am most familiar with, excluding any that I am probably just not thinking of off the top of my head or didn't have a lot of contact with.

Regular opponents and fellow tourney goers include the following (from last years rankings):

3rd overall with Orcs
2nd, 3rd, and 6th as Necrons,
2nd as Deathwatch,
5th, 8th and 20th among Adeptus Astartes players,
14th as Blood angels,
6th as Chaos Daemons, 2nd as Harlequins and first among Imperial Knights (oh and btw, 11th in the entire ITC),
4th as Chaos Marines,
3rd among Dark Angels,
9th among Genestealer Cult players,
1st and 5th among Renegade Knights
3rd as Officio Assassinorum
3rd Among Skitarii
8th among Space Wolves
1st, 3rd, 5th, among Tau Empire
1st among Tyranids

846 teams registered and played in the ITC last year. Among them our regular opponents and fellow clubs which we regularly competed with were ranked #1, 7,11,14, 15. Our club was ranked #25 among all 846. Not shockingly, also top 3%

So. My meta, for anyone who wants to know, is this. My lists are built to deal with THIS and to my opponents outside of the many ITC tournaments I went to or were not this highly rated but still in the top 5%-10% of your armies, i salute you as well!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/21 22:50:22


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Reliable Krootox






 Jancoran wrote:

Heavy Support
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
How have these been working out for you? I have a bunch of the old metal ones sitting on the bottom of the pile, waiting to be painted, but they seem to be a little lacking. Is there anything they have been excelling at for you?
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I definitely like the Brigade detachment for Tau, as those extra CP's can give a lot of critical rerolls for some of the one-off weapons (like D-missiles).
I like the Brigade as well, I think you are correct on the CP advantage being big for the Tau. That sweet reroll can make an all-or-nothing shot like the Hammerhead or Gunrig really over-preform. The only annoyance is that you only get to use it once on your shooting phase. I've been using the Auto-Pass Morale ability as well and the occasional defensive reroll or melee interupt, but it looks like he's got that covered with Aun'Va. which begs me to wonder. . .

@Jancoran: What are you using most (of the non-shooting reroll) CP for?

I'd love to know if I'm missing an opportunity, because I feel the Tau build well toward a Brigade. Unfortunately I sometimes feel constrained with the three generic Stratagems (and the occasional mission based one). I really can't wait until we get a full list to work from.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





 Jancoran wrote:

Sure. I will give you the 2K list I normally use at the moment. I'll explain if anyone has a question. if not then...hey!.


Honestly your list is not even that out of the left field as far as I am concerned, if you don't mind I am just gonna spout off my thoughts and see if you agree:
Gunrigs with full markerlight support are unusual in that they are directly comparable damage with longstrike, I dont remember the exact math but they are fine
Sniper drones are a bit weird but also fit into being the cheapest heavy support option, how have they been in your games?
Cannot really comment on Kroot, don't really know them I think they are meh or something? could be worse tho
Firesights are okay for starting markerlight chains same as cadres seems fine
Pathfinders we all know are good
I would question the large number of marker drones for moral reasons but you have Aun'Va so that is fine
Hounds are one of the best melee time wasters
Firewarriors good inf all good
Aun'Va is basicly a better ethreal right?
Carde Fireblades are good
Stormsurge is okay not amazing not bad either

Honestly looking at your list the most questionable units are probably the sniper drones but they are cheap heavy support options so it is fine even if they do nothing. Your list is the other viable option after commanders, just ignore all the gak options and take the okay options and outplay the other guy and that list is good, it is more reliant on not being gak then commander spam tho so I doubt you will see that much in the way of duplication. Honestly if I was willing to drop money on Tau stuff at the moment I would probably steal your list and do something like replace a few things with the one commander I have and maybe some stealth suits cause I like those.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Plainshow wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:

Heavy Support
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
3 (54pts) 3 Sniper Drones
How have these been working out for you? I have a bunch of the old metal ones sitting on the bottom of the pile, waiting to be painted, but they seem to be a little lacking. Is there anything they have been excelling at for you?
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I definitely like the Brigade detachment for Tau, as those extra CP's can give a lot of critical rerolls for some of the one-off weapons (like D-missiles).
I like the Brigade as well, I think you are correct on the CP advantage being big for the Tau. That sweet reroll can make an all-or-nothing shot like the Hammerhead or Gunrig really over-preform. The only annoyance is that you only get to use it once on your shooting phase. I've been using the Auto-Pass Morale ability as well and the occasional defensive reroll or melee interupt, but it looks like he's got that covered with Aun'Va. which begs me to wonder. . .

@Jancoran: What are you using most (of the non-shooting reroll) CP for?

I'd love to know if I'm missing an opportunity, because I feel the Tau build well toward a Brigade. Unfortunately I sometimes feel constrained with the three generic Stratagems (and the occasional mission based one). I really can't wait until we get a full list to work from.


Sniper Drones are a utilitarian necessity. I don't know how many 8th Edition games people have right now. I'm at 31 so far. MANY "builds" rely on the re-rolls and shenanigans of characters. Firing 18 shots straight through their lines and into those characters at STR 5, hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1's produces good results. You can drop a character after a couple rounds of that. It is also raw firepower in the general sense., Its just REALLY long range Pulse fire when you get down to it. You pay for the range and the Toughness 4, but the stealth also cannot be forgotten. But in the end I just think its super good policy top pop that Lieutenant like a pimple down yonder or to be able to add 18 overwatch shots, or scrag the darn Chaos Lord with no upgrades thats just camping one of the four vital objectives. Singular models you can't shoot at are a problem in objective missions. I think we all know the frustration so far in having a bunch of stuff in melee, a Tau Commander as the only viable target and having nothing to shoot because they're not the closest even when they are the only target! Do they cure cancer? No. I feel pretty strongly that you need them though and if you want to think WORST CASE... They are an inexpensive way to get to a Brigade and if what the actual DRONES do doesnt excite you (I think they do plenty) then perhaps you will at least think highly of the command Points they allow.

Command Point question: I tend to save the re-rolls for my Supremacy Gun Damage rolls as much as anything, since markerlights make me hit on 4's, rerolling 1's. It's actually hitting pretty often but a 1 on the damage roll is a super bummer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/22 00:10:57


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Spoiler:
 Jancoran wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:

If this is working well for you, color me impressed! I'm not sure it would work that well in my hyper-competitive meta, but it sure would be fun! What wouldn't be fun would be coming up with 24 Kroot Hounds...


Here are the qualifications I can give you for my Meta. It comes up a lot so what the hell. Maybe this can put it to sleep once and for all.

I was top 3% in the ITC last year (5575 generals competed last year). I attended the Bay Area Open, 3 GT's and 10 normal tournaments plus four more that were not ITC sanctioned events (of which i won two of those but they are not included in my ITC standing).

And since I get REAL tired of hearing about my Meta being soft (hilarious) here's the list of people I regularly went to tournaments against and with. These are just the ones I am most familiar with, excluding any that I am probably just not thinking of off the top of my head or didn't have a lot of contact with.

Regular opponents and fellow tourney goers include the following (from last years rankings):

3rd overall with Orcs
2nd, 3rd, and 6th as Necrons,
2nd as Deathwatch,
5th, 8th and 20th among Adeptus Astartes players,
14th as Blood angels,
6th as Chaos Daemons, 2nd as Harlequins and first among Imperial Knights (oh and btw, 11th in the entire ITC),
4th as Chaos Marines,
3rd among Dark Angels,
9th among Genestealer Cult players,
1st and 5th among Renegade Knights
3rd as Officio Assassinorum
3rd Among Skitarii
8th among Space Wolves
1st, 3rd, 5th, among Tau Empire
1st among Tyranids

846 teams registered and played in the ITC last year. Among them our regular opponents and fellow clubs which we regularly competed with were ranked #1, 7,11,14, 15. Our club was ranked #25 among all 846. Not shockingly, also top 3%

So. My meta, for anyone who wants to know, is this. My lists are built to deal with THIS and to my opponents outside of the many ITC tournaments I went to or were not this highly rated but still in the top 5%-10% of your armies, i salute you as well!

Your point is taken. I'm sorry if I seemed like I was looking down at you, I'm unfortunately very good at saying what I'm trying to say very badly and I end up offending people sometimes.

While I don't doubt your list is good and works even in your meta, I certainly expect that it takes a high degree of skill to play. I could sit down with this list and probably lose all 3 games in my local tournaments (where even compared to your meta the players are no slouches) simply due to not knowing how the list works and not having the tactical skill. I guess I need to "git gud" or something.

That said, I'm probably going to fiddle around in Battlescribe and see if I can do a similar list with the models I own. Maybe I'll pick some more up before I start playing Tau again.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Rockfish wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:

Sure. I will give you the 2K list I normally use at the moment. I'll explain if anyone has a question. if not then...hey!.


Honestly your list is not even that out of the left field as far as I am concerned, if you don't mind I am just gonna spout off my thoughts and see if you agree:
Gunrigs with full markerlight support are unusual in that they are directly comparable damage with longstrike, I dont remember the exact math but they are fine
Sniper drones are a bit weird but also fit into being the cheapest heavy support option, how have they been in your games?
Cannot really comment on Kroot, don't really know them I think they are meh or something? could be worse tho
Firesights are okay for starting markerlight chains same as cadres seems fine
Pathfinders we all know are good
I would question the large number of marker drones for moral reasons but you have Aun'Va so that is fine
Hounds are one of the best melee time wasters
Firewarriors good inf all good
Aun'Va is basicly a better ethreal right?
Carde Fireblades are good
Stormsurge is okay not amazing not bad either

Honestly looking at your list the most questionable units are probably the sniper drones but they are cheap heavy support options so it is fine even if they do nothing. Your list is the other viable option after commanders, just ignore all the gak options and take the okay options and outplay the other guy and that list is good, it is more reliant on not being gak then commander spam tho so I doubt you will see that much in the way of duplication. Honestly if I was willing to drop money on Tau stuff at the moment I would probably steal your list and do something like replace a few things with the one commander I have and maybe some stealth suits cause I like those.


The Gunrigs are hitting about 67% of the time with Markerlight support. That's the math. They hit like a truck.
Sniper Drones are just much tougher Fire Warriors with far better range. That also snipe.
Kroot are the Red herring. Use them to get someone to disembark and assault. Squishies are so in trouble when in the open. Kroot also can wrap up ome units if you dont deal with them and sorry bud, your Lascannon Predator isnt going to do much to it so at some point, someone has to get out and duke it out with them.
Firesight Marksmen are reliable Markerlights but they also make the Sniper Drones usable and having two discourages some players (Ive noticed) from trying to snipe THEM. After all, firing your scouts at the Stealth'd Marksman for rounds on end does little good when there is a second one standing right there! You'll kill more Marker Drones than you will Marksmen when you think about it.
Pathfinders: they dish damage very well. My regular Custodes opponent REALLY does not appreciate it. Lol.
The Marker swarm has been a staple of my army since it became possible. I used to protect them with an Irridium commander. Can't do that anymore but with Aun'Va around, Markerlights are actually less necessary. The attention Markerswoarms get is a bit less damaging. The focus on them has served me well at times... That assumes the enemy has the range to mess with them to an extent that hurts my overall chances. anyone who fights Tau knows better than to try and out gun me though. If they didn't know before, theywill soon learn.
Kroot Hounds are just so good. So good. I can't even speak enough superlatives in their direction.
Fire Warriors: Nuf said, rtight?

Aun'Va has been leading my forces for a long time. Between his ability and the auto-pass on a 6, it is rare for me to lose much in the way of leadership. More than that his mere presence gives my core firebase durability from the 6+ FnP and his "automarkerlight" aura.

Fireblades= markerlights on 2+ AND an aura of extra shots. Too good.

Stormsurge is a necessity like it was in 7th. People simply ARE bringing silly stuff to the tournaments I go to and you simply must have your anti-Magnus (or similar thing) in the list. I've already had to fight a Prophyrion titan thingee at a tournament for example. Crazy Forge World BS. So yeah: StormSurge isn't going anywhere, even if it is kinda just an anti-infantry gunboat. It's good at its job and if it dies, it probably won't be before it hurts someones feelings real bad. or dies round one. Whatevs. Lol.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jancoran wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:

If this is working well for you, color me impressed! I'm not sure it would work that well in my hyper-competitive meta, but it sure would be fun! What wouldn't be fun would be coming up with 24 Kroot Hounds...


Here are the qualifications I can give you for my Meta. It comes up a lot so what the hell. Maybe this can put it to sleep once and for all.

I was top 3% in the ITC last year (5575 generals competed last year). I attended the Bay Area Open, 3 GT's and 10 normal tournaments plus four more that were not ITC sanctioned events (of which i won two of those but they are not included in my ITC standing).

And since I get REAL tired of hearing about my Meta being soft (hilarious) here's the list of people I regularly went to tournaments against and with. These are just the ones I am most familiar with, excluding any that I am probably just not thinking of off the top of my head or didn't have a lot of contact with.

Regular opponents and fellow tourney goers include the following (from last years rankings):

3rd overall with Orcs
2nd, 3rd, and 6th as Necrons,
2nd as Deathwatch,
5th, 8th and 20th among Adeptus Astartes players,
14th as Blood angels,
6th as Chaos Daemons, 2nd as Harlequins and first among Imperial Knights (oh and btw, 11th in the entire ITC),
4th as Chaos Marines,
3rd among Dark Angels,
9th among Genestealer Cult players,
1st and 5th among Renegade Knights
3rd as Officio Assassinorum
3rd Among Skitarii
8th among Space Wolves
1st, 3rd, 5th, among Tau Empire
1st among Tyranids

846 teams registered and played in the ITC last year. Among them our regular opponents and fellow clubs which we regularly competed with were ranked #1, 7,11,14, 15. Our club was ranked #25 among all 846. Not shockingly, also top 3%

So. My meta, for anyone who wants to know, is this. My lists are built to deal with THIS and to my opponents outside of the many ITC tournaments I went to or were not this highly rated but still in the top 5%-10% of your armies, i salute you as well!

Your point is taken. I'm sorry if I seemed like I was looking down at you, I'm unfortunately very good at saying what I'm trying to say very badly and I end up offending people sometimes.

While I don't doubt your list is good and works even in your meta, I certainly expect that it takes a high degree of skill to play. I could sit down with this list and probably lose all 3 games in my local tournaments (where even compared to your meta the players are no slouches) simply due to not knowing how the list works and not having the tactical skill. I guess I need to "git gud" or something.

That said, I'm probably going to fiddle around in Battlescribe and see if I can do a similar list with the models I own. Maybe I'll pick some more up before I start playing Tau again.


Fair. I was not truly directing this at you per se, but just trying to nip it in the bud before it starts going down that road too far. Whenever seomone wants to tell me im stark raving mad, they always reach for the good old "opponent strength" thing off the shelf there and...well...I guess you can tell I don't like it very much. Lol.

As for skill: Maaaaaaaybe. But honestly I think that practice makes perfect.

The round goes like this:
the hounds flank and make the halo so drop troops cannot get in on you. Move up if it makes sense to with the rest. Red herring Kroot Vanguard move and then advance in the middle to intercept anything coming your way, to slow them down and ill blow a command point here if I need to to get them up there as far as possible. Kroot should be able to reach the 29 inch line and preferably in cover (not that it will help much).
Roll the Markerlights that hit on 2's.
Roll the Markerlights that hit on 3's
Split the Drones to accomodate whichever of your two targets need more to get to 5.
Fire a Pathfinder squad next if you didn't QUITE get to five on one and split your fire appropriately to start the blood letting.
Now fire every large gun first. You don't want to waste a big hit on a wounded target so best to hit em with the big stuff first and see where that leaves you.
Now fire the smaller guns in descending order.
End with charging into anything the hounds can tie up.

I mean... I dont know how much skill that takes. Lol. Target priority is a thing you gotta get right with this army but that's just a general 40K familiarity thing and after a couple games its likely to come to you just fine. When to move to objectives is also a thing and thats a timing thing you'll get used to.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/22 00:45:57


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Jancoran wrote:
Rockfish wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:

Sure. I will give you the 2K list I normally use at the moment. I'll explain if anyone has a question. if not then...hey!.


Honestly your list is not even that out of the left field as far as I am concerned, if you don't mind I am just gonna spout off my thoughts and see if you agree:
Gunrigs with full markerlight support are unusual in that they are directly comparable damage with longstrike, I dont remember the exact math but they are fine
Sniper drones are a bit weird but also fit into being the cheapest heavy support option, how have they been in your games?
Cannot really comment on Kroot, don't really know them I think they are meh or something? could be worse tho
Firesights are okay for starting markerlight chains same as cadres seems fine
Pathfinders we all know are good
I would question the large number of marker drones for moral reasons but you have Aun'Va so that is fine
Hounds are one of the best melee time wasters
Firewarriors good inf all good
Aun'Va is basicly a better ethreal right?
Carde Fireblades are good
Stormsurge is okay not amazing not bad either

Honestly looking at your list the most questionable units are probably the sniper drones but they are cheap heavy support options so it is fine even if they do nothing. Your list is the other viable option after commanders, just ignore all the gak options and take the okay options and outplay the other guy and that list is good, it is more reliant on not being gak then commander spam tho so I doubt you will see that much in the way of duplication. Honestly if I was willing to drop money on Tau stuff at the moment I would probably steal your list and do something like replace a few things with the one commander I have and maybe some stealth suits cause I like those.


The Gunrigs are hitting about 67% of the time with Markerlight support. That's the math. They hit like a truck.
Sniper Drones are just much tougher Fire Warriors with far better range. That also snipe.
Kroot are the Red herring. Use them to get someone to disembark and assault. Squishies are so in trouble when in the open. Kroot also can wrap up ome units if you dont deal with them and sorry bud, your Lascannon Predator isnt going to do much to it so at some point, someone has to get out and duke it out with them.
Firesight Marksmen are reliable Markerlights but they also make the Sniper Drones usable and having two discourages some players (Ive noticed) from trying to snipe THEM. After all, firing your scouts at the Stealth'd Marksman for rounds on end does little good when there is a second one standing right there! You'll kill more Marker Drones than you will Marksmen when you think about it.
Pathfinders: they dish damage very well. My regular Custodes opponent REALLY does not appreciate it. Lol.
The Marker swarm has been a staple of my army since it became possible. I used to protect them with an Irridium commander. Can't do that anymore but with Aun'Va around, Markerlights are actually less necessary. The attention Markerswoarms get is a bit less damaging. The focus on them has served me well at times... That assumes the enemy has the range to mess with them to an extent that hurts my overall chances. anyone who fights Tau knows better than to try and out gun me though. If they didn't know before, theywill soon learn.
Kroot Hounds are just so good. So good. I can't even speak enough superlatives in their direction.
Fire Warriors: Nuf said, rtight?

Aun'Va has been leading my forces for a long time. Between his ability and the auto-pass on a 6, it is rare for me to lose much in the way of leadership. More than that his mere presence gives my core firebase durability from the 6+ FnP and his "automarkerlight" aura.

Fireblades= markerlights on 2+ AND an aura of extra shots. Too good.

Stormsurge is a necessity like it was in 7th. People simply ARE bringing silly stuff to the tournaments I go to and you simply must have your anti-Magnus (or similar thing) in the list. I've already had to fight a Prophyrion titan thingee at a tournament for example. Crazy Forge World BS. So yeah: StormSurge isn't going anywhere, even if it is kinda just an anti-infantry gunboat. It's good at its job and if it dies, it probably won't be before it hurts someones feelings real bad. or dies round one. Whatevs. Lol.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jancoran wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:

If this is working well for you, color me impressed! I'm not sure it would work that well in my hyper-competitive meta, but it sure would be fun! What wouldn't be fun would be coming up with 24 Kroot Hounds...


Here are the qualifications I can give you for my Meta. It comes up a lot so what the hell. Maybe this can put it to sleep once and for all.

I was top 3% in the ITC last year (5575 generals competed last year). I attended the Bay Area Open, 3 GT's and 10 normal tournaments plus four more that were not ITC sanctioned events (of which i won two of those but they are not included in my ITC standing).

And since I get REAL tired of hearing about my Meta being soft (hilarious) here's the list of people I regularly went to tournaments against and with. These are just the ones I am most familiar with, excluding any that I am probably just not thinking of off the top of my head or didn't have a lot of contact with.

Regular opponents and fellow tourney goers include the following (from last years rankings):

3rd overall with Orcs
2nd, 3rd, and 6th as Necrons,
2nd as Deathwatch,
5th, 8th and 20th among Adeptus Astartes players,
14th as Blood angels,
6th as Chaos Daemons, 2nd as Harlequins and first among Imperial Knights (oh and btw, 11th in the entire ITC),
4th as Chaos Marines,
3rd among Dark Angels,
9th among Genestealer Cult players,
1st and 5th among Renegade Knights
3rd as Officio Assassinorum
3rd Among Skitarii
8th among Space Wolves
1st, 3rd, 5th, among Tau Empire
1st among Tyranids

846 teams registered and played in the ITC last year. Among them our regular opponents and fellow clubs which we regularly competed with were ranked #1, 7,11,14, 15. Our club was ranked #25 among all 846. Not shockingly, also top 3%

So. My meta, for anyone who wants to know, is this. My lists are built to deal with THIS and to my opponents outside of the many ITC tournaments I went to or were not this highly rated but still in the top 5%-10% of your armies, i salute you as well!

Your point is taken. I'm sorry if I seemed like I was looking down at you, I'm unfortunately very good at saying what I'm trying to say very badly and I end up offending people sometimes.

While I don't doubt your list is good and works even in your meta, I certainly expect that it takes a high degree of skill to play. I could sit down with this list and probably lose all 3 games in my local tournaments (where even compared to your meta the players are no slouches) simply due to not knowing how the list works and not having the tactical skill. I guess I need to "git gud" or something.

That said, I'm probably going to fiddle around in Battlescribe and see if I can do a similar list with the models I own. Maybe I'll pick some more up before I start playing Tau again.


Fair. I was not truly directing this at you per se, but just trying to nip it in the bud before it starts going down that road too far. Whenever seomone wants to tell me im stark raving mad, they always reach for the good old "opponent strength" thing off the shelf there and...well...I guess you can tell I don't like it very much. Lol.

As for skill: Maaaaaaaybe. But honestly I think that practice makes perfect.

The round goes like this:
the hounds flank and make the halo so drop troops cannot get in on you. Move up if it makes sense to with the rest. Red herring Kroot Vanguard move and then advance in the middle to intercept anything coming your way, to slow them down and ill blow a command point here if I need to to get them up there as far as possible. Kroot should be able to reach the 29 inch line and preferably in cover (not that it will help much).
Roll the Markerlights that hit on 2's.
Roll the Markerlights that hit on 3's
Split the Drones to accomodate whichever of your two targets need more to get to 5.
Fire a Pathfinder squad next if you didn't QUITE get to five on one and split your fire appropriately to start the blood letting.
Now fire every large gun first. You don't want to waste a big hit on a wounded target so best to hit em with the big stuff first and see where that leaves you.
Now fire the smaller guns in descending order.
End with charging into anything the hounds can tie up.

I mean... I dont know how much skill that takes. Lol. Target priority is a thing you gotta get right with this army but that's just a general 40K familiarity thing and after a couple games its likely to come to you just fine. When to move to objectives is also a thing and thats a timing thing you'll get used to.

Jancoran thanks for posting, while some elements of your list is not my style you gave me a few ideas. We play between 700 pts to 1.5k which caused me to use Outrider 1CP due to cost. But your 3 cheap Heavy, Elite and HQ solves the pts problem making Brigade viable for my builds. Plus I like the hounds to stop deep strikers. Our local Tyranid player likes to deepstrike 20 Termagants in for 60shots with reroll 1's. Hounds, what a cheap counter to his high pts cost deep strike.

Have you tried deploying the pathfinders and pulse Accelector drone and separating the drone away from the pathfinders? Vanguard the Pathfinders, then if you are allowed Vanguard the drone towards the firewarriors with Fireblade. If that’s not allowed just move/advance the single drone. In the middle of 4 Firewarrior squads that’s 36” range with 3 shots out to 18”

Have you tried taking 5 missile pod support turrets with those squads? Its something I have been thinking about but not tried. With markerlight support what are you thoughts on turrets with missiles or SMS for those firewarrirors?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/22 10:55:57


 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Pottsey wrote:

Jancoran thanks for posting, while some elements of your list is not my style you gave me a few ideas. We play between 700 pts to 1.5k which caused me to use Outrider 1CP due to cost. But your 3 cheap Heavy, Elite and HQ solves the pts problem making Brigade viable for my builds. Plus I like the hounds to stop deep strikers. Our local Tyranid player likes to deepstrike 20 Termagants in for 60shots with reroll 1's. Hounds, what a cheap counter to his high pts cost deep strike.

Have you tried deploying the pathfinders and pulse Accelector drone and separating the drone away from the pathfinders? Vanguard the Pathfinders, then if you are allowed Vanguard the drone towards the firewarriors with Fireblade. If that’s not allowed just move/advance the single drone. In the middle of 4 Firewarrior squads that’s 36” range with 3 shots out to 18”

Have you tried taking 5 missile pod support turrets with those squads? Its something I have been thinking about but not tried. With markerlight support what are you thoughts on turrets with missiles or SMS for those firewarrirors?


Hounds and the Kroot really help form what I have dubbed the "halo" against deep strike, and the Kroot are my "if i'm not going first, I can create the halo around my firebase with THEM" unit.

I don't use the Drone on my Pathfinders, but I definitely like that idea. Definitely like that idea. I think the accelerator drone works on specific weapons right? Not spectifi units? No codex in front of my right now but that's a great tip and not even an expensive change, really. I'm tight for points but it seems like a worthwhile thing to include.

The turrets are really a great upgrade in my mind and I have faced off against them of course. I can never seem to free up enough points for it but my friend does this to good effect and i do curse a little tiny bit when he fires them. Lol. I feel as if I can get that production elsewhere, but if I was to commit more to fire warrior numbers, I would probably do it. I just dont see the point in adding it to units as small as mine. The other thing is i do stay a bit more mobile than my army list suggests, and that is tough on you if you have the missiles. So I think I just play too mobile personally to make it work but i do think less mobile forces should consider that as a worthwhile investment. My friend certainly gets his pound of flesh out of their ability to hit things he cant see.


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Regular Dakkanaut




 Jancoran wrote:
Pottsey wrote:

Jancoran thanks for posting, while some elements of your list is not my style you gave me a few ideas. We play between 700 pts to 1.5k which caused me to use Outrider 1CP due to cost. But your 3 cheap Heavy, Elite and HQ solves the pts problem making Brigade viable for my builds. Plus I like the hounds to stop deep strikers. Our local Tyranid player likes to deepstrike 20 Termagants in for 60shots with reroll 1's. Hounds, what a cheap counter to his high pts cost deep strike.

Have you tried deploying the pathfinders and pulse Accelector drone and separating the drone away from the pathfinders? Vanguard the Pathfinders, then if you are allowed Vanguard the drone towards the firewarriors with Fireblade. If that’s not allowed just move/advance the single drone. In the middle of 4 Firewarrior squads that’s 36” range with 3 shots out to 18”

Have you tried taking 5 missile pod support turrets with those squads? Its something I have been thinking about but not tried. With markerlight support what are you thoughts on turrets with missiles or SMS for those firewarrirors?


Hounds and the Kroot really help form what I have dubbed the "halo" against deep strike, and the Kroot are my "if i'm not going first, I can create the halo around my firebase with THEM" unit.

I don't use the Drone on my Pathfinders, but I definitely like that idea. Definitely like that idea. I think the accelerator drone works on specific weapons right? Not spectifi units? No codex in front of my right now but that's a great tip and not even an expensive change, really. I'm tight for points but it seems like a worthwhile thing to include.

One of these days I am going try 4 full sized fire warrior squads with a fireblade and range extend drone in the middle of all 4.

The turrets are really a great upgrade in my mind and I have faced off against them of course. I can never seem to free up enough points for it but my friend does this to good effect and i do curse a little tiny bit when he fires them. Lol. I feel as if I can get that production elsewhere, but if I was to commit more to fire warrior numbers, I would probably do it. I just dont see the point in adding it to units as small as mine. The other thing is i do stay a bit more mobile than my army list suggests, and that is tough on you if you have the missiles. So I think I just play too mobile personally to make it work but i do think less mobile forces should consider that as a worthwhile investment. My friend certainly gets his pound of flesh out of their ability to hit things he cant see.


That’s correct the drone is specific weapons although it does say infantry units so no drone boost :(. I use the drone between two gunrigs or behind so it’s out of enemy LOS. The drone pass’s the aura onto the Gunrig which pass’s the Aura down to the embarked pathfinders for the carbines when I don't need more maker shots. I see no reason we cannot put a 2 firewarror squads in 2 gunrigs and have a Fireblade and range extend drone passing both aura’s into both gunrigs for the squads.

EDIT: I keep meaning to try 4 full sized firewarror squads with a Fireblade and range extend drone in the middle boosting them all.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/23 09:00:21


 
   
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Olympia, WA

well when you have 144 shots blasting in on 3'1. rerolling 1's... That's 127 hits at STR 5. Just sayin. Even against T4, and 3+ saves (MEQ) you're doing more than 21 usaved wounds with just those four units. A bit scary. Most marine armies have like 50-60 models at the best of times so....This would be quite a blow from less than 400 points of your army. This does require the Markerlights to make it work so its not TRULY less than 400 points of your army, but it illustrates the point.You could definitely march forward with confidence using that kind of firepower.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Jancoran wrote:
well when you have 144 shots blasting in on 3'1. rerolling 1's... That's 127 hits at STR 5. Just sayin. Even against T4, and 3+ saves (MEQ) you're doing more than 21 usaved wounds with just those four units. A bit scary. Most marine armies have like 50-60 models at the best of times so....This would be quite a blow from less than 400 points of your army. This does require the Markerlights to make it work so its not TRULY less than 400 points of your army, but it illustrates the point.You could definitely march forward with confidence using that kind of firepower.


Which means you either brought a massive amount of markerlights in order to get five on several targets, or you overkilled a single squad and your effectiveness drops considerably from there.

In my experience it's best not to assume you'll ever have a 3+ to hit, even if you're taking a decent amount of markerlights. Either your opponent is not so foolish as to ignore them, or in the case that they do, it's still better to get one markerlight on several enemy units than it is to get several on one. I've played over a dozen games, and I've gotten five markerlights on a Target exactly once. Usually I end up with three, which is essentially the same as one in most cases, or four, which is wasted when the target is not in cover.

Buuuut, those are all issues with markerlights, honestly.
   
 
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