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 Valkyrie wrote:
Have recently come into possession of a couple of Helverins and a Valiant. I've done some practice rolls and I'm not so sure the Helverins are actually as good as they seem. The flat 3-Damage Autocannons are nice, particularly when you consider how many shots they put out but the S7 really hurts them, they're in that weak spot, can't wound T4 on 2+, can't wound T8 on 4+. Perhaps I'm confusing their role, what would be a couple of example targets that they should go for?

Additionally, with the Valiant, are the rumoured point changes likely to affect the Valiant, or just the Castellan? Again, what would be the sort of targets to go for with the Valiant? The Harpoon is a beautiful weapon but can easily be mitigated by Invulnerable saves.

In both examples I also have 4 other Knights I can use; Castella, Gallant, Errant and Crusader.

A Helverin pairs nicely with a gallant for taking up the spare points to take it to 500 ish points.
It's not great but tends to be ignored and can still contribute while holding an objective.

They are strong vs t6 and 7.

By the time you get down to 3 and 4 your models are moatly not multi wound or your a character if you go higher than t8 your too tough.

Kinda makes them a meta choice vs xenos

Dark eldar vehicles are prime targes for helverins. Anything that looks like them. Custodians. Necron vehicles(vs which warglaives gun's special rule helps them) etc

I recieved another 6 Warglaives.

Will try them all out extensively with a Preceptor to see what they're worth against most armies (no one plays guard, and I mean NO ONE, in my flgs)

They just need FW to release another cc weapon or a inferno gun instead of the very efficient but probably very expensive thermal spear(build in cost for now) so we can drop their price even further down.

Welp boys, our knights are safe. Anything with a heavy stubber received a points decrease.

Klone12 wrote:
I recieved another 6 Warglaives.

Will try them all out extensively with a Preceptor to see what they're worth against most armies (no one plays guard, and I mean NO ONE, in my flgs)

They just need FW to release another cc weapon or a inferno gun instead of the very efficient but probably very expensive thermal spear(build in cost for now) so we can drop their price even further down.

They're fun, and the melta actually has the range and movement to get 2d6 damage most of the time, but I find they're best used harassing and taking objectives. Planning on them killing things is usually planning to fail. If they just had assault 2 for the thermal spear they'd be fine, but the amount of times I roll a 1 for shots and miss or fail to wound is depressingly common.

Can folks critique my list I’m thinking of trying.

Taranis SHD
Gallant
Gallant
Hellverin x2
Castellan

Min Admech Graia battalion

Min Admech Graia battalion

19CP 14 drops, just shy of 2K. Thoughts?

So the best change of CA is that I can now run 4 Cerastus at 2000pts.

Now what trait to use? Hm

CatGotYourLas wrote:
Welp boys, our knights are safe. Anything with a heavy stubber received a points decrease.

GW generally cut point costs for most armies, meaning that knights got a price hike relative to the rest of the game (except Deldar, which is hilarious)

 Valkyrie wrote:
Have recently come into possession of a couple of Helverins and a Valiant. I've done some practice rolls and I'm not so sure the Helverins are actually as good as they seem. The flat 3-Damage Autocannons are nice, particularly when you consider how many shots they put out but the S7 really hurts them, they're in that weak spot, can't wound T4 on 2+, can't wound T8 on 4+. Perhaps I'm confusing their role, what would be a couple of example targets that they should go for?

Anything with Fly is a good target thanks to the strat for Helverins, and most flyers are T6, 7 at most (for the big ones like the Stormraven). If Tau players start using Crisis suits again due to the nice points drops they are getting, Helverins will really ruin their day (unless they bring lots of Shield Drones, which they will). Also, Thunderwolf Cavalry are 3 wound models, so every failed save is a dead model. Those are just a few examples; I think Helverins are very solid units as long as you can pick your targets right.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Have recently come into possession of a couple of Helverins and a Valiant. I've done some practice rolls and I'm not so sure the Helverins are actually as good as they seem. The flat 3-Damage Autocannons are nice, particularly when you consider how many shots they put out but the S7 really hurts them, they're in that weak spot, can't wound T4 on 2+, can't wound T8 on 4+. Perhaps I'm confusing their role, what would be a couple of example targets that they should go for?

Anything with Fly is a good target thanks to the strat for Helverins, and most flyers are T6, 7 at most (for the big ones like the Stormraven). If Tau players start using Crisis suits again due to the nice points drops they are getting, Helverins will really ruin their day (unless they bring lots of Shield Drones, which they will). Also, Thunderwolf Cavalry are 3 wound models, so every failed save is a dead model. Those are just a few examples; I think Helverins are very solid units as long as you can pick your targets right.

Speaking as someone who has ran them, they are very vulnerable to getting tied up in combat. You will need a big guard screen for them to work well.

stratigo wrote:

CatGotYourLas wrote:
Welp boys, our knights are safe. Anything with a heavy stubber received a points decrease.

GW generally cut point costs for most armies, meaning that knights got a price hike relative to the rest of the game (except Deldar, which is hilarious)

Or orks. But yeah it might LOOK like knights escaped unhurt from CA but knights took hit. Most of armies took hefty point drops giving even 200-300 pts more to spend and new scenarios also hurt for knights. Less going first, no wipeout wins. There's one scenario which negates knight inv save if you want to contest objective...

What do you guys think about skyweavers? Do you think they are fair?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Have recently come into possession of a couple of Helverins and a Valiant. I've done some practice rolls and I'm not so sure the Helverins are actually as good as they seem. The flat 3-Damage Autocannons are nice, particularly when you consider how many shots they put out but the S7 really hurts them, they're in that weak spot, can't wound T4 on 2+, can't wound T8 on 4+. Perhaps I'm confusing their role, what would be a couple of example targets that they should go for?

Helverins are really good against units that can be problematic to deal with using more conventional weaponry. They are good against anything with multiple wounds and an invulnerable save. SS TWC, larger daemons. They are also good against light vehicles and aircraft.

Yes they suffer against T8 but there are plenty of other tools in the IK armoury for dealing with "big game".

 Valkyrie wrote:
Additionally, with the Valiant, are the rumoured point changes likely to affect the Valiant, or just the Castellan? Again, what would be the sort of targets to go for with the Valiant? The Harpoon is a beautiful weapon but can easily be mitigated by Invulnerable saves.

The latest I have heard is that people who have seen CA is that Knights are not changing in price.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Have recently come into possession of a couple of Helverins and a Valiant. I've done some practice rolls and I'm not so sure the Helverins are actually as good as they seem. The flat 3-Damage Autocannons are nice, particularly when you consider how many shots they put out but the S7 really hurts them, they're in that weak spot, can't wound T4 on 2+, can't wound T8 on 4+. Perhaps I'm confusing their role, what would be a couple of example targets that they should go for?

Helverins are really good against units that can be problematic to deal with using more conventional weaponry. They are good against anything with multiple wounds and an invulnerable save. SS TWC, larger daemons. They are also good against light vehicles and aircraft.

Yes they suffer against T8 but there are plenty of other tools in the IK armoury for dealing with "big game".

 Valkyrie wrote:
Additionally, with the Valiant, are the rumoured point changes likely to affect the Valiant, or just the Castellan? Again, what would be the sort of targets to go for with the Valiant? The Harpoon is a beautiful weapon but can easily be mitigated by Invulnerable saves.

The latest I have heard is that people who have seen CA is that Knights are not changing in price.

Helverins suffer from the ability of being turned off by combat. As soon as they are in combat their use almost zeros out for the rest of the game.

So, my Quad Cerastus list is now 1900 pts:



Everyone but the Castigator has an invul save in CC, Raven lets them run and fire, which is especially nice combined with Flank Speed, and since the Heirlooms of the Household and Exalted Court don't work on Cerastus Knights, it's not like I can buy extra heirlooms and such anyways.

Anyone have any suggestions what I can do with the last 100 points, or if I should tweak the Warlord (Trait)/Relic?

 Xenomancers wrote:
What do you guys think about skyweavers? Do you think they are fair?

Off topic, but maybe a little cheaper than they should be but given they always bring a doom toting farseer (which is OP) it's not easy to tell.

 Crazyterran wrote:
So, my Quad Cerastus list is now 1900 pts:

Spoiler:

House Raven - LoW Detachment

Cerastus Knight Acheron - Warlord, Landstrider, Sanctuary
Cerastus Knight Castigator -
Cerastus Knight Lancer -
Cerastus Knight Atrapos -

Everyone but the Castigator has an invul save in CC, Raven lets them run and fire, which is especially nice combined with Flank Speed, and since the Heirlooms of the Household and Exalted Court don't work on Cerastus Knights[b][i], it's not like I can buy extra heirlooms and such anyways.

Anyone have any suggestions what I can do with the last 100 points, or if I should tweak the Warlord (Trait)/Relic?

Oh didnt that change in the last faq?

As an aside im buying some cerastus knights lol but are people happy with them on paper they all seem pretty good.

Looking for help making a tourny list for knights. 2000pts. Looking to take something along the lines of

Super heavy detachment (taranis)
Castellan (ion bulwark) 604pts
Crusader (avenger + endless fury + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts
Crusader (avenger + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts

Ad mech battalion (graia)
- 2 enginseers 60pts
- 3 units of 5 rangers 105pts

Assassin vanguard
- 2 culexus assassins 170pts
- 1 callidus assassin 70pts

Total of 1997pts

Anyone like it?

Time of madness wrote:
Looking for help making a tourny list for knights. 2000pts. Looking to take something along the lines of

Super heavy detachment (taranis)
Castellan (ion bulwark) 604pts
Crusader (avenger + endless fury + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts
Crusader (avenger + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts

Ad mech battalion (graia)
- 2 enginseers 60pts
- 3 units of 5 rangers 105pts

Assassin vanguard
- 2 culexus assassins 170pts
- 1 callidus assassin 70pts

Total of 1997pts

Anyone like it?

If your going to cheese a castellen, it has to have cawl's wrath.
I like taranis, but I'm not 100% sure it's better than raven to pump your Castellens damage, especially after the strategum nerf
(Honestly not still salty ) not to mention it doesn't help against the most common way to kill knights of MW spam.

Time of madness wrote:
Looking for help making a tourny list for knights. 2000pts. Looking to take something along the lines of

Super heavy detachment (taranis)
Castellan (ion bulwark) 604pts
Crusader (avenger + endless fury + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts
Crusader (avenger + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts

Ad mech battalion (graia)
- 2 enginseers 60pts
- 3 units of 5 rangers 105pts

Assassin vanguard
- 2 culexus assassins 170pts
- 1 callidus assassin 70pts

Total of 1997pts

Anyone like it?

Looks good. However, in my experience the assassins have not been worth it. You can get 5 more CP for their cost instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

Time of madness wrote:
Looking for help making a tourny list for knights. 2000pts. Looking to take something along the lines of

Super heavy detachment (taranis)
Castellan (ion bulwark) 604pts
Crusader (avenger + endless fury + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts
Crusader (avenger + rapid fire + missile pods) 494pts

Ad mech battalion (graia)
- 2 enginseers 60pts
- 3 units of 5 rangers 105pts

Assassin vanguard
- 2 culexus assassins 170pts
- 1 callidus assassin 70pts

Total of 1997pts

Anyone like it?

If your going to cheese a castellen, it has to have cawl's wrath.
I like taranis, but I'm not 100% sure it's better than raven to pump your Castellens damage, especially after the strategum nerf
(Honestly not still salty ) not to mention it doesn't help against the most common way to kill knights of MW spam.

I legit think taranis is better than raven if running 3+ knights. Most of the time the castellans shooting kills whatever you need anyways, so dumping CP into raven strats feels wasted occasionally.

So, what have you all been doing in mirror matches?

3 Knights + Armigers Vs. 3 Knights + Armigers?

With how strong our invulnerable saves are shooting doesn't seem to work well. I had a game where two Raven Castellans tried shooting each other down and, after 2-3 rounds, just gave up and switched to different targets since the damage they had inflicted was single digits.

Rushing a Lancer or Atrapos in there might work, but the movement speeds are close enough it also takes some time to actually catch back deployed Knights (especially while dancing to avoid whatever melee Knight the other person has).

As you can guess, it's been giving my brain some strain of late thinking of solid contingencies to take or strategies to use.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What do you guys think about skyweavers? Do you think they are fair?

As long as multiple knights are showing up with 12+ Command Points I'd say they're just fine.

I'm pretty enthusiastic about some of the way the Mono knights are working out.

My knight tactics I'm recommending.
Charge units that can't hurt you. Don't leave those attacks on the table.
Exalted Court and Cunning Commander is a no brainier. Use it every time unless there is a specific need not to.
Target Priority wins games.

My list I'm using:
House Tanaris
3x Crusader, 2 with RFBC, 1 With Thermal Cannon, Thermal Cannon upgraded to Fury of Mars, Thermal cannon was Warlord with Ion Bulwark. All 3 with Ironstorm, and H Stubbers.

2x Helverins with Stubbers

1 Warglaive with Melta.

COLD CASH wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
So, my Quad Cerastus list is now 1900 pts:

Spoiler:

House Raven - LoW Detachment

Cerastus Knight Acheron - Warlord, Landstrider, Sanctuary
Cerastus Knight Castigator -
Cerastus Knight Lancer -
Cerastus Knight Atrapos -

Everyone but the Castigator has an invul save in CC, Raven lets them run and fire, which is especially nice combined with Flank Speed, and since the Heirlooms of the Household and Exalted Court don't work on Cerastus Knights[b][i], it's not like I can buy extra heirlooms and such anyways.

Anyone have any suggestions what I can do with the last 100 points, or if I should tweak the Warlord (Trait)/Relic?

Oh didnt that change in the last faq?

As an aside im buying some cerastus knights lol but are people happy with them on paper they all seem pretty good.

They got keyword so get traits and strategems in general but they have neither questos nor dominus keyword which those strategems specifically require.

Aahhhh got it. Thank you!!

Hi, I have got for xmas 3 Armigers, and I am thinking of getting a proper Knight to add to my current Imperial guard list (some troops and tanks). Wich one should I take? I am thinking of a Crusader.

Babar_babar wrote:
Hi, I have got for xmas 3 Armigers, and I am thinking of getting a proper Knight to add to my current Imperial guard list (some troops and tanks). Wich one should I take? I am thinking of a Crusader.

Do you have Shadow Swords for killing big targets? If not, a Castellan with Cawl's Wrath and Ion Bulwark is a fantastic anti-tank and anti-elite unit whilst being pretty durable, even against other super-heavies.

If you feel you have enough anti-tank then a Gallant is fun for tearing stuff apart. If you fear CC then a Valiant from house Hawkshroud with Traitor's Pyre and Ion Bulwark (again) is awesome for BBQing whole squads of infantry at a time.

The Crusader is OK (I have one and it gets good mileage). The downside is that it carries a lot of the kind of firepower that IG armies carry anyway. The Rapid Fire Battlecannon is not much better than a Russ or two with Grinding Advance. The Avenger is good (particularly the relic version, Endless Fury). My main issue with the Crusader is just that for around 100 points more, the Castellan brings an entirely different league of firepower.

Hey all!

I'm getting into knights in an unconventional way, I'm converting up 4 Cerastus knights into Ork Looted Knights for a big conversion project, but on the tabletop I intend to use them as Imperial Knights.

My questions are:
1. Are the Cerastus Knights viable? I technically have 3 Atrapos and 1 Acheron, but intend to make 2 of the Atrapos into a Castigator and a Lancer for varieties sake.

2. Are Cerastus too tall to be 'counts-as' forms of other knights? I'm magnetizing almost everything, and I'm hoping to have each able to be used as a Questoris or Dominus knight as well with some arm and carapace weapon swaps (e.g. using the Atrapos as a Castellan, or the Castigator as a Gallant if I throw on another CC weapon), or are they simply too different?

3. What are the best allies? I actually don't have any Orks outside of a few Speed Freekz which I'll use for fluffy allies, but if I were to convert some Orks into counts-as AdMech or Imperial Guard what should I be aiming for?

Thanks for any help you guys can give! I really appreciate it!

TO answer your questions...

Cerastus Viable? In a word yes, but, like anything your milage might vary depending on your meta. They are more balanced to Close Combating big things over shooting. Your normal Questoris class has much better firepower overall, and maybe even a bit better HTH with a Gallant, but the Cerastus class is faster, tougher and has some like advancing very fast.

Not sure on Counts as. I'd say yes, but you might have some modeling ideas that make it work.