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Hey im new to dakka posting so be gentle

Does anyone still use a seer council style unit something like :
Farseer (Fortune)
7-10 Warlocks (1 enhance, 1 embolden)
Then potentially add in a second Farseer to try and make sure Fortune works or use Eldrad

They wont be as good as the old Seer Council with the Seers now being IC but can people still see a use for them?

I see a lot of potential in an Eldrad lead Seer council. Though most players prefer the Avatar as the second HQ for Eldrad.

I would keep the squad small as any lavish amount of Warlocks just increases the points level.

My idea:

Eldrad

Farseer (Fully kitted) w/ 4 Warlocks (Embolden, Enhance, maybe a distructor or two)

That is the most flexible configuration. You have Eldrad, that doesn't need to join the Farseer squad gaining the divanation and ability to cans multiple powers and you have the Farseer throwing fortune on his squad and casting another power. Plus the lower squad size gives them the option of hopping in a Falcon if they need to be redeployed.

The question comes in, how do you make maximum use of that many powers a turn.

Well, the inclusion of units that benifit from the powers the most, for example, War Walkers that are Guided, Wraithlords can be fortuned and guided, Rangers benefit from Doom, etc.

So I think the unit really lends itself to a shooting Eldar army with few tanks, reling on Farseer support to maximize shooting and save potential.

One major drawback with any seer council: since Ulthwe farseers are now independent characters, they can be targeted by HtH attacks. Even Eldrad can be pulled down in a single round by a powerfist. Once the farseer(s) are dead, then it's a unit with a bunch of 4+ saves. So the seer council's former role as a tarpit is gone.

Isn't that what Mind war is for?

Greets
Schepp himself

Well you can mindwar the powerfist (but not in HtH) and assuming you kill him, you'd last longer. But everybody who is within 2" of a model in base with the farseer can still allocate all their HtH attacks on him and just overwhelm his saves. If they're str6 or better attacks for a regular farseer, or a unit with a lot of attacks per model, or a unit of terminators, then the farseer will be going down pretty fast.

Yeah, but last time I checked you have to get into base-to-base to target him.

First off, if you are fielding a Seer Council you would be crazy not to have a counter assault unit waiting for something to hit you lines.

Second, if you use you Warlocks as a nice fortuned sheild, you can hold off the inevitable at least a game turn.

Third, the unit has fleet, which means they can do a pretty goood run if they need to to get away. (and that doesn't hurt your pre-turn powers)

So I think the unit is still viable.

The Seer Council could still be pretty good, though it's certainly a little weaker than it used to be (or a lot weaker, if you're counting the 20+ model jokes some people used to field).

To allocate attacks to the farseer, you have to be in base contact with the farseer, or within 2" of another member of your unit who is in contact with the farseer, while not being in base contact with some other unit yourself.

Eldrad doesn't have much to fear from powerfists or even from piles of regular attacks. A re-rolled 3+ invulnerable is pretty gross, and T4 is a good defense against most other attacks. But he can't Fleet.

A regular Farseer can Fleet, but T3 definitely exposes him to more hits. And a re-rolled 4+ is not quite as reliable as I'd like when it comes to fists. Still, as long as you engage the powerfist with other models, it's not going to be able to swing at the seer. Terminators are a terrible target for a seer council, but quite a nice one for Banshees, Shining Spears, and Fire Dragons, so I'm not terrified of them.

Power players could now deploy two Seer Councils though, and so still get 20+ models.

Without augment warlock powers, the real seer council is dead.

Now its just a bunch of warlocks and a couple farseers. Sure it resembles a seer council, but judging by the points you spend, and the lack of augment, the seer council in the craftworld form is long gone.

Good riddance as well.

I agree with Hellfury's sentiments, but I would imagine the best use of the Seer Council now would be on Jetbikes. The 3+ armor save along with Fortune makes them a much better tarpit, and their increased mobility means that they can do the charging (to ensure the Farseer is far away from the Powerfist model in the enemy unit).

It would also allow them to fly around chucking Singing Spears at enemy vehicles and the ability to Turboboost (and have a re-rollable 3+ invulnerable save) would be pretty nifty as well.

Even though we're talking about a 500+ point unit, I think the only place for a Seer Council is in the sky on their Harleys.

I dont really think of that as a Seer Council. Mainly because you could always take a jetbike Farseer retinue for other craftworlds, but you couldnt bike up the Ulthwe Seer Council.

Of course, as you no longer have to have your farseers attached to your warlock squad, you can keep the farseer safe by just trailing 2" behind the warlocks. He will still be in range to keep fortune on them, but wont get stuck in combat.

Long story short, Fulg, is yes, seer councils can still be useful. But only to a certain extent and certainly not as many people think of them as used in 3rd ed.

I have to agree with yak, that the best use for them is mounted on bicycles.

Since Seercouncils dont benefit from being cheap "Boxing" warlocks, screened by hordes of gaurdians as they were in 3rd, the uses are considerably different.

This expensive unit has to be cooperatively supported, even more so than other units in the 4th ed eldar list. They are simply too expensive to be sent out on their own.

But the biggest benefit in my eyes of the new council, is not having to make the farseer and warlocks a single unit. The farseer can support other elements of the army with his powers while the mounted warlocks combine with other fast elements such as a shining spears aspects.

I know this is a point where many disagree about designers intent and such, but no one is qualified to assume such. It is plainly written in numerous places how these two are seperate elements of the same HQ choice. Taking advantage of their new found seperation will add considerably more flexibility than keeping the 'seer and 'locks together.

For instance, a half static based and half mobile based army. The seer stays with the static fire (warwalkers etc.) while the 'locks go off with the mobile elements, mounting up with min sized aspects in serpents, etc). You have two elements to support both the hammer and the anvil.

So dont think of them as a "seer council" perse. Purge what 3rd ed has taught you and read the new codex with a fresh mind. This HQ choice is a perfect example of how the same unti we all know has changed the tactics used for the army.

So dont think of them as a "seer council" perse. Purge what 3rd ed has taught you and read the new codex with a fresh mind. This HQ choice is a perfect example of how the same unti we all know has changed the tactics used for the army.

My thoughts exactly. Its swings and roundabouts though. If farseers were integral to the units then they have 'anonymity' in the assault. Now you can sperate them, but as fully IC's if you join in you can get picked off. This makes a bike retinue especially dangerous as your Seer can get really exposed.

I must admit that readin through the codex i had never noticed that the farseer and the warlock squad could be seperated. This does add alot of flexibility, but im currently lookin at a smaller unit with bikes zipping around.

Must say thanks to everyone for the ace advice