Alternatives to TheWarStore?

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**ancientsociety**

After being a steady customer for some time, my last order was completely screwed up and I'm looking to spend my money someplace else (I won't go into specifics as I'm not trying to bash the company).

Anybody have any good alternatives?

I'm considering miniatures-giant.com for my Reaper stuff but I need to find a place that carries Confrontation and 40K (Specialist Games would be a nice bonus too)...

**Lorek**

Wow. You're going to ditch them after one order?!

There's a Canadian place that seems to sell a lot of what you want, but I can't remember what it is... Help, anyone?

**Hellfury**

Great canadian miniatures?

For canadian companies, I prefer darkbasement to great canadian. My orders get filled faster and and shipping is free. great canadian is like a slug. I have waited three months for an order to arrive fom there on two seperate occasions. I just recently bought 4 dirz tigers from darkbasement and it took them 10 days to get to me and was charged $32. Very happy with them.

If youre in chicago, I wouldnt go that route though. Plenty of places to buyonline in the states.
I have found dropzoneonline to be really good for GW. 20-25% off GW with free shipping.
I have also gotten good service from fantization, but the shipping gets a bit steep for me. They do have an excellent selection of rackham as well other european stuff such as hasslefree and freebooter.

sad about warstore though. I have had problems before, but it always gets fixed quickly. I havent found a online business yet that doesnt have some problems that is beyond their control (shipping being the prime target).

**whitedragon**

Well, in the retail business, one screw-up is all you need to lose a customer. Unfortunately that's the case.

2 out of 3 people won't even tell you what you did wrong to offend them, they'll just never come back.

On the other hand, in this day and age, I notice that American's seem to have a misplaced sense of entitlement. Just an observation.

**Hellfury**

I agree. The US customers seem to feel entitled to being treated like a king. Myself included.

I blame businesses who kowtow to customers unequivically. Places like macy's where you can go scream at a sales person and they just smile and do as thier told. Utter garbage.

**pnweerar**

I blame businesses who kowtow to customers unequivically. Places like macy's where you can go scream at a sales person and they just smile and do as thier told. Utter garbage.

I second that.

**Lorek**

I always try to put myself into the businessman's shoes, too. I'll forgive a lot if the person I'm dealing with is honest and seems to want to correct the problem; sometimes bad things just happen.

Entitlement is a HORRIBLE problem here. I live in a college town, and I see it all the time. I was out of town for it this semester, but I've volunteered to work at one of the college bookstores (a friend of mine runs it) the day after book buyback ends. Get back at them a little bit.

-=Edit=- Ancientsociety, let us know how the other place works out, where ever you end up going.

**Boss Salvage**

Chaos Mail Order - chaosmailorder.com - used to be my supplier of choice, as they give you free shipping over $75. They also have slightly better prices on confrontation, reaper and privateer press, IIRC, then WarStore does. Really, I've only been using WS so much of late because I don't buy $75 at a time anymore so the standard $3.95 shipping is nice. WS carries a greater variety of stuff, like MEGA miniatures, but otherwise CMO has a lot going for it, and I always have received my orders before I expected them.

- Boss Salvage

**ancientsociety**

Iorek: I've ordered from them several times in the past. This time though the service was subpar and there was a very long delay.

whitedragon: I did communicate with them about the problems with this order, so they know why I'm not happy.

Hellfury: Fantization seems okay but there doesn't appear to be a discount and their shipping price is steep (although I don't mind if it's shipped quickly and I can choose the shipper). I am looking for some Hasslefree and Freebooter, as well, although I'll probably just order straight from them (ordered from HF before and they were AWESOME. I was totally blown away by their friendliness, communication, and shipping time - and all this from a small, homebrew company!).

**whitedragon**

My point was not to say that you were wrong to contact them, or that in the event of a retail screw-up you should just walk away. I was merely stating the facts.

The percentage of people in general that actually complain is about 30%. What that means is, two thirds of the business you are losing won't even tell you why, as they come in, are dissatisfied, and then look elsewhere. It is then paramount for a business to be on its game 100 percent all the time to minimize those things that customers could be potentially dissatisfied about.

This is sorta just general information that is really only partially relevant to the topic at hand, as I'm just sorta stating some general good business practice theory.

On the other hand, did TheWarStore actually try to fix your problem? As a longtime buyer, they must have had to screw up really really bad to completely lose your business, and its probably an interesting tale to all of us that shop at TheWarStore, as maybe we don't want to be parley to a similar screw up with our orders. Should we ALL be looking elsewhere?

All of that is just merely some quick brainstorming ideas that your experience brings up.

Now, onto my opinion.

I would be willing to bet that there was probably some miscommunication between the two of you. (yourself and TheWarStore) After all the rave reviews and lengthy term of successful business that Neal has run, I find it hard to believe that he could make such a monumentous screw-up as to completely run off one of his long time customers.

This is where my comment about American's "misplaced sense of entitlement" came in. I'd be willing to bet that there was a mistake on TheWarStore's part, and in attempting to resolve the issue with them, you maybe tried to ask for more than you were due. (IE, I want it all for free, and I aint shipping back the wrong stuff, or something like that)

Anyway, there are alot of what if's there, but we don't know the whole story because you neglected to share it with us.

I just find it hard to believe that such a long time customer could become completely disenfranchised with a retailer that he had such a long relationship after one bad transaction, unless it was of epic preportions.

**Hellfury**

The details are irrelevant.

He wants alternate sources for his needs, not to cause "Hubaloo".

(Heh. I love that word more and more)

**ancientsociety**

Posted By whitedragon on 01/30/2007 9:47 AM
My point was not to say that you were wrong to contact them, or that in the event of a retail screw-up you should just walk away. I was merely stating the facts.

The percentage of people in general that actually complain is about 30%. What that means is, two thirds of the business you are losing won't even tell you why, as they come in, are dissatisfied, and then look elsewhere. It is then paramount for a business to be on its game 100 percent all the time to minimize those things that customers could be potentially dissatisfied about.

This is sorta just general information that is really only partially relevant to the topic at hand, as I'm just sorta stating some general good business practice theory.

On the other hand, did TheWarStore actually try to fix your problem? As a longtime buyer, they must have had to screw up really really bad to completely lose your business, and its probably an interesting tale to all of us that shop at TheWarStore, as maybe we don't want to be parley to a similar screw up with our orders. Should we ALL be looking elsewhere?

All of that is just merely some quick brainstorming ideas that your experience brings up.

Now, onto my opinion.

I would be willing to bet that there was probably some miscommunication between the two of you. (yourself and TheWarStore) After all the rave reviews and lengthy term of successful business that Neal has run, I find it hard to believe that he could make such a monumentous screw-up as to completely run off one of his long time customers.

This is where my comment about American's "misplaced sense of entitlement" came in. I'd be willing to bet that there was a mistake on TheWarStore's part, and in attempting to resolve the issue with them, you maybe tried to ask for more than you were due. (IE, I want it all for free, and I aint shipping back the wrong stuff, or something like that)

Anyway, there are alot of what if's there, but we don't know the whole story because you neglected to share it with us.

I just find it hard to believe that such a long time customer could become completely disenfranchised with a retailer that he had such a long relationship after one bad transaction, unless it was of epic preportions.

It was sort of a combo of lack of communication (about their stock problems and reason for delay), length of delay (ordered from another store 3 days later and it arrived 3 days earlier than WS's expected date), and general attitude in their correspondence.

Like I said, I don;t want to go into specifics or any he-said/he-said argument.

I NEVER asked for anything for free or a discount or anything like that. It would have been nice if they had offered (of course, I would have humbly accepted. lol) but they never did. I just politely asked for them to cancel my order and give me a refund (which hopefully they will). I wasn't *female dog*y and I wasn't confrontational. In fact, I've been very understanding - to a point.

I understand about America's "sense of entitlement" but that's not the case here. Everything I've acquired I've worked hard for, and that includes the money that I use to buy things. When I deal with a company that touts itself as having excellent customer service and then I get something very much less than that (and doesn't really do much to keep my business), that's fine - I'll take my business elsewhere.

**Lorek**

Oops! I hope I didn't convey the impression that I was talking about you, AS. I do believe that you have a good reason for moving on; I was just taking the conversation to a broader tangent (as I believe others were too).

Anytime I can belly-ache about the entitlement problem here, I'm happy.

**scramasax**

I heard rumors that GW is closing their warehouse in Canada and that the stock will be shipped from the US from now on. My local dealer has his orders coming from the states last time. Instead of taking a day to receive his stock it tooks 4 days and there was some errors. in the shipping.

If it is the case it migth impact canadian stores. But even if they ship things from the states the Canadian store still have to pay the inflated candian prices

**ender502**

Wow. Hearing about anyone having a bad experience with the warstore is shocking. I wonder if you were talking to Neil directly or an employee. I remember that Neil messed up an order of mine about 6 years ago. He was great about fixing the mistake.

As for alternatives... so far I have had good luck with dropzone. Good discount and free shipping.

ender502

**Polonius**

Disclaimer: I'm in no way speculating as to what happened between the OP and the Warstore. Just telling a little story.

I used to work in retail, selling swimming pools, hot tubs, and supplies. It's an old school business model: every customer gets helped, we advise them on purchases, we'll usually go to the ends of the earth to order a part, etc. Basically, we charge a lot of money, but people get good service. Every now and then though, an order will get pooched, and the customer will start asking about it, and for some reason, it becomes a THING. Suddenly, every day you're tracking a part as it crossed the country, you're fielding a call or two a day from a justifiably annoyed customer, etc. etc.

In the end, my anger about the situation would transfer to the customer, and they would get boned. Hard. One guy, after waiting 3 weeks for a part we probobly should have had in stock, paid $15 each, instead of $15 for the pair. plus shipping, plus tax. As a business, I should have given him a discount, or some free stuff. But it was sweet vengenance to watch that guy over pay for his stuff. it doesn't make me a good person, but after being treated like a villian for a few weeks, somebody innoncent ends up suffering.

My point, as meandering as it may be, is that even good businesses that really care about their customers bone somebody now and then.

**Zubbiefish**

Even good people who care about thier neighbour bone somebody now and then.

**chuckyhol**

I am a little turned off by the warstore too. First, the discount isn't as good as I can get elsewhere. Next, twice now they haven't notified me not having the stuff in stock, even when it says normal stock, usually ships within 24 hours. In fact, my last order took two and a half weeks to come - when it should have come in 4 days or so. Not good business I say.

Chuck

**nyarlathotep667**

My experiences with Neal have all been excellent. Backorders happen as do mistakes, but they've always fixed them right away. My last order had several items on it that I knew were out of stock at the time of purchase plus additional quantities of some items they didn't have. All were sent in a second shipment at no additional cost. There was either one or two mis-packed items, where I had ordered one item and was accidentally given another, the missing blister which they included in the above back order. Two plus weeks really isn't long to wait for mail order, especially if back ordered.

Anyhow, my guess is this is partly growing pains for them. The only other online service I've used that is still in business is the previously mentioned Chaos Mail Order. They're excellent also, though they don't have the same wide selection as Neal. Same quality customer service, fast ships and reasonable shipping. However, if you play regularly at a LFGS, I would suggest ordering through them if at all possible. Most have a variety of distributors to order from and are generally happy to special order anything you might want (gaming wise). Sure, you might not get the best price, but I always considered that little bit extra as my "game space tax" as it helped ensure I would have a place to meet and game.

**Boss Salvage**

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 01/31/2007 5:13 PM
My last order had several items on it that I knew were out of stock at the time of purchase plus additional quantities of some items they didn't have. All were sent in a second shipment at no additional cost.

Last time I ordered from the WarStore I knew they'd have to special order stuff for me - buying 6 MEGA spider swarms will do that - and was a little bummed that I'd have to wait a week or so extra. So I was pleasantly surprised when Neal sent the in-stock part of the order right away, so I could get to work ... but then I saw that my credit card was charged $3.95 shipping twice, once for both parts of the order. $3.95 isn't much compared to how much I saved, but I would have liked some indication that this charge was going to happen, as I'm not sure I would have ok-ed the order split if it meant a second shipping charge.

And that's all the bad I've had with Neal

- Boss Salvage

**Lorek**

I think that was probably an oversight on their part; I had a similar experience ordering paints (and the dollar amount was pretty small), but he shipped the backordered stuff to me free; I didn't even ask.

**beefHeart**

http://www.scifigenre.com/

I've used these guys a bunch, decent discount, free shipping over 75US and their site shows you stock status in the cart. I've called them once or twice and found them to be helpful and friendly.

-beef

**Polonius**

It's sounding more and more like as Neal's business expanded, he's no longer as personally involved in all the orders, and there's an employee who doesn't quite get it. While it's possible that he's decided to try and nickle and dime his customers a bit (with double shipping, etc.), it seems more likely that a newer employee simply doesn't understand customer service. It happens all the time, and the best thing to do would be to get the name of the person you deal with on the phone, and if there's a problem, make sure to report that person.

**ancientsociety**

Next, twice now they haven't notified me not having the stuff in stock, even when it says normal stock, usually ships within 24 hours.

Exact same thing happened to me. I also don;t like the "regular stock" desc. on their site. It should either be IN STOCK or OUT OF STOCK, no in-between, vague terminology. From Neal's correspondence, it seems regular stock means "we have to order it from our supplier", which essentially means it's "out of stock".

so I could get to work ... but then I saw that my credit card was charged $3.95 shipping twice, once for both parts of the order.

Did you ask for a refund? No reason you should have been charged twice if they did not have it in stock but decided to ship half of it to you. It even says they won't double-charge you if anything is backordered on their site....

It's sounding more and more like as Neal's business expanded, he's no longer as personally involved in all the orders, and there's an employee who doesn't quite get it.

All the emails I rec'd were from Neal.

I should mention for those interested that I've had VERY good experience with the following e-tailers.

http://www.nobleknightgames.com

This is the store I mentioned earlier as having ordered from 3 days after TWS and rec'ing 3 days before TWS. They've ALWAYS shipped the same day (I've always ordered before 3PM though) and they have a ton of OOP stuff. Not the best prices but I like them

http://www.artsbargains.com/

I've ordered multiple times thru their ebay store for Rackham stuff, because they have everything and a better discount than TWS. Good shipping, friendly guys.

**inquisitor_bob**

ancientsociety, I applaud you for bringing this up. We should all be aware that nobody is perfect and even the WarStore can make serious mistakes. I have personally ordered from the Warstore twice before. They only messed up slightly on the second order. Neal corrected the mistake quickly and allowed me to keep what they had sent by mistake.

WarStore is a great company, but even great companies can make mistakes and people need to realize that.

I do not order things online anymore because I want to support my FLGS. There's been several store closings in the metro area within the last few years. A couple of surviving stores have downsized. If players have a local store they play at, meet their friends, or to have a jolly old time, they should spend that money on their FLGS.

**carmachu**

Well, in the retail business, one screw-up is all you need to lose a customer. Unfortunately that's the case.

Not really. I had a screwed up order with them and one email got the order straigten out and I kept the screw ups....even after I offered to send it back...

**Lorek**

I'd support my local gaming stores more if they could actually supply me the products that I want. I've special ordered out-of-stock things from them several times, and they either take a month or more, or simply don't show up at all.

I'm to the point where if my local store doesn't have it right now, I'll order it online.

**Hellfury**

Its very important to keep stock in a store, and more important to special order if you dont have it.

The last hobby shop here went out of business not only because of instore stocking issues, but special order issues.

Most people didnt mind when they had to special order something, but when it takes a minimum of three months, if ever, for the product to arrive then they lose customers.

Not isolated incidents either. Everytime someone made an order, the order never arrived or was so late that it was considered gross negligence.

I ordered an exorcist and it took 6 months to arrive. I gave up after 4 months and bought mine online. When it finally did come, he bugged me about buying it. I told him I waited for the thing for a period that was far more than reasonable to expect its pickup, and that he was too late as I already purchased mine online. Then he told me not to special order something if I didnt intend on picking it up.

That was the last straw for me. I gave him a piece of my mind regarding his business practice and never went back.

He went out of business four months after that, as people either traveled to the next city for their goods, or they mail ordered.

**The Drop Zone**

My business model is pretty simple
25% off all gw reg stock items and free shipping in the US

If i dont have it in stock ill let you know right away. ill order it and get it to you asap most orders are shipped that way within the week. others are shipped that day.

On the occasionsomethig is sold out at the source illl let the customer know as soon as i know...Some things one has no control over.

I have on occasion gone to a competitors store bought the product at full retail and sold it for a loss to make sure it was done right.

I carry other game systems and the discount varies. depends on where i have to get the product from

My policy on screw ups... dont make em.. ha ha yeah i know...if its wrong i fix it no questions
if i send the wrong stuff you keep it thats my bad... seems pretty simple

**Lorek**

Heh, I just checked out your website a few minutes ago. I may be dropping you a line next week (I've still got to hit up two of the local stores to make sure they don't have what I need).