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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





So speaking of starter sets I've found use for the old boxed set Plasteks. testing paint schemes. here's an atlas I've used as a Davion Guards test


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

BrianDavion wrote:
as someone whose been playing Battletech since the 90s, if I was playing with a new player I would only use the 3025 "starter box" tech. less weapons to confuse them with and the single heat sinks will train good heat management skills

I started off with the Battletech Compendium, before even getting a box, personally, so I was pushing Clan stuff almost exclusively early on.

Where to start someone REALLY depends on the person, honestly. As I said, in general I agree that AGAOC is the best place to start, but by saying, "in general" it doesn't consider specific cases. Some people can handle diving in to Total Warfare right away, while some take time with AGOAC.

In a way, it's kind of like the argument I have with people about WarmaHordes starters who say that the starters need to come with a unit and solos so you can learn that part of the game with it. However, I counter with the simple concept that the Focus and Fury mechanics are the most complex part of the game, so it is best for people to get up to speed with them before progressing in to heavier formats. But so many try to push people in to the Steamroller format, the "only" way to play WarmaHordes, that they ignore that people need to catch up. Still, if someone is willing to push themselves like that, all power to them.

So, too, I would start off training people with Mediums like what come in the Beginner Box or AGAOC unless they wanted to dive straight in to the thick of it. Of course, one must think of those whose first box was Clan Invasion, too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/30 19:18:24


Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

That is a good point. You start of fearing heat, and DHS acts as a kind of crutch against that.

Took a long weekend of drawn out knock down Solaris 'bouts with hot-running custom designs to teach me that heat is not something to fear, but just a resource to be managed.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

We like using the old ammo explosion rules, so 3025 becomes kind of a powder keg with no C.A.S.E if you don't mind your heat management.

We did a huge succession wars game were we killed 17 mechs in one turn(and ended the game) through a daisy chain of ammo cook off explosions.



The other fun one was when i was helping the GM run a scenario campaign as part of the OP4 he gave me a 3025 mech with no case and a rear firing SRM 6. i took gyro damage and tried to stand up..and failed managed to crit the ammo in the torso and kill or damage several of the player mechs...good times




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I remember the first time I faced a Catapult K2. We were both impressed at the idea of a Catapult with a pair of PPCs. Seemed like a novel idea.

Of course first turn I got a crit on the machine gun ammo bay. Very short lived K2...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Still waiting on a shipping notification from CGL -_-

The general lack of KS related communication the last few weeks has me worried that theres some major logistical delay thats holding things up.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

BrianDavion wrote:
well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.

Even then, there are quite a few Succession Wars designs which are perfectly heat neutral, and quite a few post-Rennaissance designs which run even hotter than most of the Mad Max designs do. ER energy weapons are VERY heat intensive while offering no appreciable increase in damage (on the IS side, at least). A lot depends on what the pilot/player choose to do.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Charistoph wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
well the reason I say 3025 tech is because in the era of double heat sinks a lot of people don't master heat managment like you have to in 3025. but yeah you can afford to jump right in for sure.

Even then, there are quite a few Succession Wars designs which are perfectly heat neutral, and quite a few post-Rennaissance designs which run even hotter than most of the Mad Max designs do. ER energy weapons are VERY heat intensive while offering no appreciable increase in damage (on the IS side, at least). A lot depends on what the pilot/player choose to do.


yeah granted a lot of 3050 plus designs also just are poorly designed that way. most 3025 designs aren't heat neutral but work nicely with bracket firing.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Albany, NY

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I remember the first time I faced a Catapult K2. We were both impressed at the idea of a Catapult with a pair of PPCs. Seemed like a novel idea.

Of course first turn I got a crit on the machine gun ammo bay. Very short lived K2...


Funnily enough that's how I've dispatched every K2 I've encountered in my HBS Battletech playthru so far. Nice to see the tabletop translate to video games so accurately.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Still waiting on a shipping notification from CGL -_-

The general lack of KS related communication the last few weeks has me worried that theres some major logistical delay thats holding things up.
It's driving me nuts. The cut-off date to make changes to shipping addresses in Oz was Aug 28th. That was over a month ago and since then we've heard nothing from the distributor.

"But COVID..."

... is a fine excuse for a lot of things, including not shipping us the product yet. What it is not an excuse for is a lack of communication both from the distributor and from CGL.

They need to get their collective acts together.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The K2 really underwhelmed me.

   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

 Manchu wrote:
The K2 really underwhelmed me.


Well now yes, but back in the early days of battletech a catapult showing up with TWO PPCs was a huge deal.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

And now we have the K4, with its twin Heavy PPCs, or, one of my personal favs, the K5 with its double MRM30s!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

I do love my cat with MRMs and a C3 slave. it is one of my optional mechs for one of my C3 lances for my second swords of light.




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 aphyon wrote:
Well now yes, but back in the early days of battletech
No, compared to the C1.

   
Made in es
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Manchu wrote:
The K2 really underwhelmed me.


It's a really different machine which doesn't really work all that well, mainly because it's kind of a worse Warhammer (main weapons, main movement).

The only advantage it had over the Warhammer was that it could fire both PPCs while static and be heat neutral.
   
Made in us
Humorless Arbite





California

I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.

Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Thargrim wrote:
I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.

Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.


If you wanna play the game and socially distance it's worth joining a battletech discord and looking into something called Megamek.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 Thargrim wrote:
I was born in '93 and remember playing the hell out of mechwarrior 3, mechassault 2 and adored those games back in the day. I never really considered looking into the tabletop game. But now i'm seeing more of these newer minis and printed materials and i'm liking what i'm seeing.

Might have to pick up that game of armored combat box, if I can find it at retail price. I did want to grab the beginner box just cause 20 bucks seems like a steal just to demo the game, but it's apparently sold out everywhere. But really if the past year or 2 is any indication i'll probably spend more time painting the minis than playing.

Barnes & Noble just got a batch in. It may be worth looking up.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Still need to do the base and maybe a tinsy bit of clean up, but here's a Davion Brigade of Guards Timber Wolf


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Nice unboxing video from beasts of war
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HD7JZMf_SvE&list=RDCMUCV9FQJzreW8stzsij9WnLOA&index=1
   
Made in us
Humorless Arbite





California

A local lgs has the game of armored combat box so I picked it up, just finished painting the commando earlier today (steiner/lyran scheme)


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Thargrim wrote:
A local lgs has the game of armored combat box so I picked it up, just finished painting the commando earlier today (steiner/lyran scheme)



*fedcom high five*

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Albany, NY



Had our first full lance on lance IS game, still using the AGOAC rules and 4/5 pilots and a 3/4 lance leader for this one. Next game we'll start using the Battlemech Manual, thinking we'll move to 3/4s across the board but I have noticed that the old scenario books consistently consider 4/5 the standard stats for IS pilots. My DCMS local garrison lance consisting of a Jenner, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Crab faced off against some mercs running a Black Knight, Firestarter (laser variant), Griffin (non-PPC variant), and Centurion. I tried to play the Jenner really aggressive and then lost initiative the next turn which set it up to take a large laser in the back from the BK which wrecked one leg, and then another hit wrecked the other leg (hip destroyed crits on both), and then the Jenner fell down and did more damage from a prone position than it got to do standing, before being blasted, shot, and finally kicked to death. The Black Knight also managed a late game boxcar critical roll on the Griffin that popped a leg off, ending that mech's career of usefulness.

One thing I noticed in both games so far is that we tend to end up in a conga line scrum in the middle and it's very hard for a medium or heavy mech to shake a lighter mech that's clinging to its rear facing. I've tried to look around for some CBT tactics tips on Youtube but the searches are so saturated with video game results that I haven't been able to find much that was helpful. We're also trying to stick to basic Succession War era trash mechs to learn and the weapon ranges and heat are so punishing, but I thought it was worth getting the fundamentals down before adding in more complexity and lethality.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

One thing that could help against the speedy lights is Jump Jets. If you can wheel on a dime, or move to the side to get yourself out of a rear arc shot it could help.

If they've got the initiative though, then you'll just have to take it, or get into some decent cover. Alternatively, have a few 'Mechs to sink initiative and make them move some or all of their speedy ones earlier.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I find BTW sometimes bait is useful. deliberately manuver a mech into a comprimising situation to enchourage your enemy to manuver a mech into a position you want them too

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Spoiler:
 Prometheum5 wrote:


Had our first full lance on lance IS game, still using the AGOAC rules and 4/5 pilots and a 3/4 lance leader for this one. Next game we'll start using the Battlemech Manual, thinking we'll move to 3/4s across the board but I have noticed that the old scenario books consistently consider 4/5 the standard stats for IS pilots. My DCMS local garrison lance consisting of a Jenner, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Crab faced off against some mercs running a Black Knight, Firestarter (laser variant), Griffin (non-PPC variant), and Centurion. I tried to play the Jenner really aggressive and then lost initiative the next turn which set it up to take a large laser in the back from the BK which wrecked one leg, and then another hit wrecked the other leg (hip destroyed crits on both), and then the Jenner fell down and did more damage from a prone position than it got to do standing, before being blasted, shot, and finally kicked to death. The Black Knight also managed a late game boxcar critical roll on the Griffin that popped a leg off, ending that mech's career of usefulness.

One thing I noticed in both games so far is that we tend to end up in a conga line scrum in the middle and it's very hard for a medium or heavy mech to shake a lighter mech that's clinging to its rear facing. I've tried to look around for some CBT tactics tips on Youtube but the searches are so saturated with video game results that I haven't been able to find much that was helpful. We're also trying to stick to basic Succession War era trash mechs to learn and the weapon ranges and heat are so punishing, but I thought it was worth getting the fundamentals down before adding in more complexity and lethality.


That is the way we run things by the book IS lances are all 4/5 with the lance leader being an elite 3/4. we only up it when we play clans. with the 1.3/1 conversion this comes out as 2 lances VS 1 star with standard pilots which turns out to be a very fair fight especially without zellbrigan.

As for the conga line issue i always try to include a mech in the lance that is a flanker/pursuit mech. since this is always the last to move it forces your opponent to play a bit more strategically.

Even my steiner desert scout lance includes one "fast" mech like a battlemaster...or a crusader.

Also remember that backing away is a legit tactic especially if you have a mech optimized for fire support like the stalker II with ERLRMS or a night star with 2 gauss riles and an ERPPC.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/08 06:43:20




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Albany, NY

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
One thing that could help against the speedy lights is Jump Jets. If you can wheel on a dime, or move to the side to get yourself out of a rear arc shot it could help.

If they've got the initiative though, then you'll just have to take it, or get into some decent cover. Alternatively, have a few 'Mechs to sink initiative and make them move some or all of their speedy ones earlier.


Totally see the value in jump jets for that purpose, but still learning to balance the trade-offs in terms of heat. My Griffin was able to jump into a decent spot to lose the Firestarter that was glued to its butt, but then I spent 5 heat on the jump and didn't feel like it was worth the heat of firing the PPC on a 10+ to-hit. Maybe it's just the Griffin in particular not being very good with its 12 heat sinks, but I found a lot of instances where I could either maneuver into a good spot or use my weapons effectively on decent to-hit rolls, but not usually both in the same turn.

I also see a lot of learning curve to managing TMM effectively. The Jenner was the most clear example I've had where I could dart across the board and generate a +4 to be hit with only a +2 attacker modifier from having run. It seems like anything that moves 5/8 or slower really struggles to generate a beneficial TMM ratio.

   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

TMM? you mean TSM? triple strength myomer?


Advanced rules allow you to turn off heat sinks to hit the magic +9 over heat to activate it.

Heat management is a large part of the game along with what kind of modifiers you are willing to take. the +3 to hit from jumping in very situational. the extra +1 to be hit can be super beneficial as well as being able to re position facing any direction you want.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
 
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