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Really wish I hadnt invested in allarus feeling like they could compete with bikes. That was a mistake. Now I feel theyre just awful. Coming in t2 means they do next to nothing. Now there really is no reason to take them over bikes. Thanks gw, what were you thinking with these changes? It just shows a distinct lack of understanding about the state of the game.

The fw tanks seem appealing to keep us competitive, the contemptors now seem a lot worse.

Tau are back on top as just the worst army to play against, and the beta rules are a straight buff to them. They now cant be alpha striked, you have to suffer an extra shooting phase plus overwatch, from multiple units too. They can just bunker up and play to table you, ignoring objectives. Its happened to me twice so far where Ive been ahead on objectives and lost to tau overwhelming firepower,

Meatgrinder wrote:
Really wish I hadnt invested in allarus feeling like they could compete with bikes. That was a mistake. Now I feel theyre just awful. Coming in t2 means they do next to nothing. Now there really is no reason to take them over bikes. Thanks gw, what were you thinking with these changes? It just shows a distinct lack of understanding about the state of the game.

The fw tanks seem appealing to keep us competitive, the contemptors now seem a lot worse.

Tau are back on top as just the worst army to play against, and the beta rules are a straight buff to them. They now cant be alpha striked, you have to suffer an extra shooting phase plus overwatch, from multiple units too. They can just bunker up and play to table you, ignoring objectives. Its happened to me twice so far where Ive been ahead on objectives and lost to tau overwhelming firepower,

Yeah, I'm having a hard time justifying any form of Custodes dreadnought at the moment. The Grav-Tank seems the clear standout and almost good enough to hang with the bikes. It really just needs Power of the Machine Spirit and maybe a small points drop (to like 300).

any tank more than like 250 points really is tough to justify unless it has some real shenanigans like being able to deep strike. A big tank is just so vulnerable in this edition that it's almost always better to disperse your points out in weaker individual options. The grav tank will almost always end up shot off the board turn one.

I use my Allarus as a counter assault unit. Dawneagles are the obvious choice to go forward and assault.

 Primark G wrote:
I use my Allarus as a counter assault unit. Dawneagles are the obvious choice to go forward and assault.

What do Allarus do as a counter-assault unit that, say, Wardens don't?

Modeling, not tactics question on cust guard assembly. Are there any guides someone can point me to to make all 5 bodies in the box as spear or sword/shield?

There are enough weapons to do all 5 as either but only instructions for 3 (because of the vexilla and shield captain).

Building my 2nd box out now.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I use my Allarus as a counter assault unit. Dawneagles are the obvious choice to go forward and assault.

What do Allarus do as a counter-assault unit that, say, Wardens don't?

Use the strategem to come in from the Vexilla which is unaffected by the new faq.

The strat is still affected by the FAQ btw.

You cant bring them in with the beacon, unless outside of your deployment zone, unless its turn 2 or later.

Basically, they are too expensive of a unit to be missing a turn of the game, so are mostly useless.

They definitely have a niche. They are very good at killing Toughness 7 stuff and putting the hurt on something with a 2+ save and toughness 4 in the shooting phase.

But that is sadly the only place they shine.

If they had just made their axe's +4 strength, or made the grenade launchers str5, or made their base invun save 4++ (so that it goes to 3++ with detachment bonus), then they would have a good usage.

Yeah, turn 1, can't DS out of your DZ.

Turn 2, bring in the Vexila, hope he lives.

Turn 3, bring in the Allarus finally. That's a third to half the game they're missing.

Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Then what's the point of using the Vexila? Just have them start on the table and get some potshots off.

But, if that's the case, Wardens with axes do the same job for cheaper. I guess if your meta is full of nothing but Thunderhammers and other 3 damage weapons, Allarus might be better, but with the Wardens' 6+ FNP, they only have a 58% chance of dying from a Thunder Hammer wound. Worse than an unwounded Allarus, agreed, but they're also cheaper.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah, turn 1, can't DS out of your DZ.

Turn 2, bring in the Vexila, hope he lives.

Turn 3, bring in the Allarus finally. That's a third to half the game they're missing.

Why would you DS the Vexilus Praetor!? Give him the -1 to hit banner and set him up in your deployment zone before the start of the game. Move and advance for two turns together with the rest of your Custodes and then use the Vexila Telleport Homer to DS your Allarus right next to him. This gives them a 18"+4W6" threat range and a very good chance for a turn 2 charge.

This is the only viable way to play Allarus. Nothing really changed for them with the FAQ. You just have to walk your Vexilus Praetor across the board instead of DS him in the first turn (which was already hard to do against lots of armies).

Right, but what's the point of DSing the Allarus, then?

They can walk themselves. Just as fast as the Vexila.

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Regular Custodes would do that and for cheaper. I'm pretty sure mathematically regular Custodes are doing better anyway.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Regular Custodes would do that and for cheaper. I'm pretty sure mathematically regular Custodes are doing better anyway.

Against what? What are the bounds? Did someone say math?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Right, but what's the point of DSing the Allarus, then?

They can walk themselves. Just as fast as the Vexila.

Unlike the Vexilus Praetor, the Allarus can be shot. DS also gives them another 6+W6" movement (they can't advance and charge), which is huge.

My Allarus counter assault enemy units close to my castle... catches people off guard.

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Thats a very expensive unit to have sit in your deployment zone all game. Thats a very...odd strategy considering out of every army in the game, custodes are not an army that needs a dedicated counter assault unit.

Well it works for me. What do you want me to say?

Remember I’m not playing pure Custodes.

Meatgrinder wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Thats a very expensive unit to have sit in your deployment zone all game. Thats a very...odd strategy considering out of every army in the game, custodes are not an army that needs a dedicated counter assault unit.

He plays against mostly assault armies. his opponents come to him which is how he can make it work.
It's pretty garbage for the rest of the world who regularly face shooting armies.

 Ordana wrote:

Meatgrinder wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Thats a very expensive unit to have sit in your deployment zone all game. Thats a very...odd strategy considering out of every army in the game, custodes are not an army that needs a dedicated counter assault unit.

He plays against mostly assault armies. his opponents come to him which is how he can make it work.
It's pretty garbage for the rest of the world who regularly face shooting armies.

Ah that makes more sense, guess its another thing he forgot to mention when making statements. Couldnt imagine doing that in the current tournament meta.

I play against a lot of armies that have some melee units but by no means are most of my games versus assault armies as I’ve corrected you before ordana. This includes the following armies that you see in a competitive meta:

Blood Angels
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Raven Guard
Tyranids

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Typically they never leave my deployment zone (i.e., counter assault =/= forward assault).

Regular Custodes would do that and for cheaper. I'm pretty sure mathematically regular Custodes are doing better anyway.

Against what? What are the bounds? Did someone say math?

I would, genuinely, love to see the difference between 6 Terminators and Ten Custodes. iirc that's roughly the same cost.

Versus meq, teq, and/or t7.

I will assume there's a captain for everybody.

10 Custodian Guard have 30 attacks, which is 175/6 hits at S6 AP-3 Dd3.
6 Allarus have 24 attacks, which is 70/3 hits at S8 AP-2 Dd3.

Against MEQ

Guard
175/9 wounds
875/54 unsaved
16.20 wounds dealt

Allarus
175/9 wounds
350/27 unsaved
12.96 wounds dealt

Against TEQ

Guard
175/9 wounds
350/27 unsaved
12.96 wounds dealt

Allarus
175/9 wounds
175/18 unsaved
9.72 wounds dealt

T7, 3+ Save

Guard
175/18 wounds
875/108 unsaved
8.10 wounds dealt

Allarus
140/9 wounds
280/27 unsaved
10.37 wounds dealt

So, Allarus do marginally better against Rhinos and the like, but Custodian come ahead against MEQs and TEQs.

Custodians also have 30 wounds as compared to 24, have a bigger footprint, and can pop a Stratagem for +1 to wound with their spears.

I played a 1500 game against World Eaters today. Mission was Front-Line Warfare from Chapter Approved

My list was:
Jetbike Captain w/Auric Aquilis and Superior Creation (Used Victor of the Blood Games on him. Dude's an absolute tank)
Jetbike Captain

4 Guards
4 Guards
4 Guards

3 Bikes
3 Bikes


His list was:
Dark Apostle
Chaos Lord (Warlord)
9 Berzerkers w/Rhino
9 Berzerkers w/Rhino
5 man Marine Squad
Defiler

Bloodthirser
20 Bloodletters
Skullcannon


It was fun playing melee army vs melee army. I'm used to playing Guard, Eldar and Tau so it was nice playing against an agressive army for a change
I went second and he conceded by the end of the third battle round

 JNAProductions wrote:
I will assume there's a captain for everybody.

10 Custodian Guard have 30 attacks, which is 175/6 hits at S6 AP-3 Dd3.
6 Allarus have 24 attacks, which is 70/3 hits at S8 AP-2 Dd3.

Against MEQ

Guard
175/9 wounds
875/54 unsaved
16.20 wounds dealt

Allarus
175/9 wounds
350/27 unsaved
12.96 wounds dealt

Against TEQ

Guard
175/9 wounds
350/27 unsaved
12.96 wounds dealt

Allarus
175/9 wounds
175/18 unsaved
9.72 wounds dealt

T7, 3+ Save

Guard
175/18 wounds
875/108 unsaved
8.10 wounds dealt

Allarus
140/9 wounds
280/27 unsaved
10.37 wounds dealt

So, Allarus do marginally better against Rhinos and the like, but Custodian come ahead against MEQs and TEQs.

Custodians also have 30 wounds as compared to 24, have a bigger footprint, and can pop a Stratagem for +1 to wound with their spears.

Plus the regular Custodes require less actual investment, which is important. Having a single meatshield with a Storm Shield is nice as well, but you can just do 4 man squads and be done with it. That means those silly knives can be bought as well, which adds a lot to the math for melee as well.

The guardian squad is more points.

AFB. Basic Spearstodes are more than 50 points?

What AFB mean?

Away from book. I remember Allarus were 84 points, but I don't remember Guard off-hand.